SHEEPEOPLE

[Michael]

Sure. All kinds of things can be imagined.

Including atheists imaging that there is no God.

 

[Michael]

So?

So you really need to stop talking about "gods" plural and learn what 'monotheism" actually means.

 

[bhsmte]

And than there are those experiences that come from somewhere else out side of the mind. The mystics of the various spiritual traditions talk a lot about that.

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How would you tell the difference, between a personal experience that comes from outside the mind, vs one that is created within the mind?

 

[Michael]

And than there are those experiences that come from somewhere else out side of the mind. The mystics of the various spiritual traditions talk a lot about that.

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In fact, inside of an electric universe, the EM field provides a natural conduit/mechanism for such transfers of information to take place.

 

[Michael]

If "God" cannot be defined - how can we begin discussing something when we cannot agree on what we are talking about?

The same way we can talk about 'dark matter', or "dark energy', or inflation.

 

[ScottA]

God is not in this universe? Not anywhere? God doesn't make any impact on this universe at all?

God created the universe in his kingdom, then we ticked him off and he cast us and physical world out. He is still in his kingdom, but has a plan to bring back the good little girls and boys and pull the plug on the rest along with the the universe when he is finished. His plan includes the actions of every particle of the universe and all of history (his story).

 

[ScottA]

Some people just have a psychological need to believe in a God and the comfort this brings them in knowing someone is looking out for them and they have a chance at eternal life.

Nothing wrong with that, if it allows one to cope with life better and makes them a better person. Now, what you don't seem to understand, is not everyone has that same need as you and doesn't see things the same way as you, as this seems to baffle you.

The world over and for many decades, fewer and fewer people are believing in a religion and or God and it is likely, this trend will continue.

What you are talking about is the same need that causes us to have pets. And there are people who invent a god for the same reason. If you don't want that kind of comfort, don't get a pet, and don't invent a god. The lack of needing those things is not baffling at all. People are different. But that is not the experience or the reason for knowing the real God of the universe. The trend of people falling away from belief in God was prophesied millennia ago: 2 Thessalonians 2:3 It is just a sign of the times and a confirmation that the word of God is true.

 

[ScottA]

The lack of compelling evidence for this undefined, unfalsifiable god-thing you are talking about.

Imagine all of the stuff in that category throughout all of history. Since you think of it all just nothing...how would you like it dumped in your front yard?

Brave? How is going for the "comfort blanket" option "brave"?

It is indeed a comfort, but that only comes after. It takes a brave person to leave everything they know...and some never do.

 

[ScottA]

If you would like to introduce this "other world" as a hypothetical, and provide reasons for how this has more explanatory power for the world around us than, say, you simply imagining it, then do so.

It's not hypothetical, and I have explained it, shared my own experience, substantiate it with millions of comparable witness accounts, given you countless analogies of just how it works and why you cannot expect it to be demonstrated in the physical world, I have invited, challenged, and even attempted to shame you into doing your part to come forth to actually receive the things you require...but still you do not.

As for imagination...you must have the BIGGEST imagination ever...in order to tune out the majority of world history that contributes to the witness. One would have to have blinders on.

 

[ScottA]

Do you send letters to Santa?

That must be one of your patented responses. This is, what, the third time you have used it with me alone, let alone anyone else?

But I love the analogy, in fact I am pretty sure I addressed it with you already. It is so telling of just what it is that God has done...and some kids (like yourself) never figure it out: He has made up this make believe story of a world, made all of us imaginary characters, let us cry real tears...and then gives the children with a gleam in their eye the good news, that its not real, and when you wake up it will all have been a bad dream. Got your gleam on? Ho, ho, ho!

 

[Davian]

I demonstrated to you that it's A) not well defined,

Wait - you said it wasn't defined, did you not?

and B) unfalsifiable by design

Of course. Only individual models can be falsified.

 

[dlamberth]

How would you tell the difference, between a personal experience that comes from outside the mind, vs one that is created within the mind?

For myself, it's not always instant and may take years to understand. On my spiritual path I have a guide and often consult with him about these sorts of things. The ego's impression can get into the way as well.

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[Michael]

Wait - you said it wasn't defined, did you not?

Correct. The term 'dark matter' is a generic term that represents any number of potential models, so the concept as a whole is impossible to falsify. If the whole idea of dark matter actually were falsifiable, the numerous revelations of significant galaxy stellar miscounts used in that 2006 claim about 'dark matter' would have done the trick. Unfortunately however, they ignored their mass estimation problems entirely.

Of course. Only individual models can be falsified.

Bingo. Likewise only individual concepts about "God", may or may not be falsifiable. Even individual models of dark matter theory, like SUSY theory become impossible to falsify so long as they can be modified on the fly, and move up the energy scale as required. Falsification requirements have *never* been necessary in science.

 

[Davian]

Imagine all of the stuff in that category throughout all of history. Since you think of it all just nothing...how would you like it dumped in your front yard?

Go for it. Put it all beside the pile of giant, immaterial invisible marshmallows.

It is indeed a comfort, but that only comes after. It takes a brave person to leave everything they know...and some never do.

You'll still have to be more explicit for how this constitutes "bravery". Or do you define bravery as "doing things that feel good in my head"?

 

[ScottA]

You'll still have to be more explicit for how this constitutes "bravery". Or do you define bravery as "doing things that feel good in my head"?

Oh, I could refer once again to the bravery of those who left behind their comforts to discover the new world...but then again, sighting even such major factual and historical examples...has already gone over your head.

 

[[serious]]

Imagine all of the stuff in that category throughout all of history. Since you think of it all just nothing...how would you like it dumped in your front yard?

Appearing on his lawn would be pretty compelling evidence that it exists.

 

[[serious]]

It's not hypothetical, and I have explained it, shared my own experience, substantiate it with millions of comparable witness accounts, given you countless analogies of just how it works and why you cannot expect it to be demonstrated in the physical world, I have invited, challenged, and even attempted to shame you into doing your part to come forth to actually receive the things you require...but still you do not.

As for imagination...you must have the BIGGEST imagination ever...in order to tune out the majority of world history that contributes to the witness. One would have to have blinders on.

The trouble with individual testimony is that it exists for all sorts of different religions. If we are to expect an atheist to accept God on our individual testimony, how can we turn around and reject Allah or Vishnu despite the personal testimonies of followers of those faiths?

 

[Davian]

It's not hypothetical, <snip>

Then this is an apologetics thread, and a request should be made to the mods to close it immediately.

<hums the Burger King theme>

 

[Davian]

That must be one of your patented responses. This is, what, the third time you have used it with me alone, let alone anyone else?

With you yet to properly respond.

But I love the analogy, in fact I am pretty sure I addressed it with you already. <snip>

Not yet. Even the Mighty Casey eventually has to take a swing at the ball.

Do you write letters to Santa?

 

[Davian]

Correct.

I just watched you say that is was not defined, and it was defined. Did you see that?

The term 'dark matter' is a generic term that represents any number of potential models, so the concept as a whole is impossible to falsify.

Agreed. It is just a label.

Bingo. Likewise only individual concepts about "God", may or may not be falsifiable. <snip>

So you agree that individual models "dark matter" can be falsifiable. I guess we don't have to hear anything more on that subject.