Sheep dream

[razeontherock]

Well, there is an OT sacrifice that speaks of suffering alone, such that no one else even recognizes you're suffering. I've never before encountered anyone who endured 13 years of that though! Prolly makes you want to stand fast, huh?

 

[Janet842]

I don't think anyone actually stands fast unless the Lord helps. When I entered the desert, I had no way of knowing how long it was going to be. Sometimes I had heard of people talking about going through a year, so I thought that would be it. But, a year came and went. Occasionally, I had heard of someone who had to go a little longer than a year, but then 2 years came and went.

I had read many testimonies after I accepted the Lord and in one a person said they had gone 6 years in a desert. 6 years came and went, and yet the desert remained. Each year came and ended and the desert didn't end. There had been only one book I had ever read where a person had gone an excessive time in a spiritual desert – 12 years – and I couldn't even imagine that something like that could happen to me. Who was I to have to face something that awful?

At the end of 12 years I was certain that I would be released from the desert. But no, my parched world drug on.

At the end of the 13th year I had come to a place where, because of lots of overtime at work and demands of friends on my time, I viewed my time as a treasure – something I had to fight to protect and preserve. But isn't the most treasured thing that we have that which should be given to God? I decided then, whether or not I would ever again know the presence of God, to give some of that treasure to Him – I would find a church and begin to attend regularly. So I chose a little Episcopal church near me for no other reason than I had never before visited that denomination. The Holy Spirit descended upon me as I worshiped there – the desert was at an end.

I would never had been able to endure 13 years without the preparation God had done in my heart before sending me into that desert. If you can picture a person being drug by their heels somewhere they don't want to go, kicking, screaming and clawing the ground the whole way, then you know how I felt when I was put out. Once back in the Body of Believers, I soon found everything was different for me and I would have to learn a different way of knowing God. A way far quieter than I had ever known.

I left the desert in May of 2002 and to this day I long with all my heart to have back the intense relationship I had with God before entering the desert. The desert is gone, but daily, hourly, minute by minute I hunger and thirst for the presence of God and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. So now you understand the scriptural verse I chose for the end of every post I write.

If reading about my spiritual desert is causing fright or consternation among anyone, you have to know that my circumstances were highly unusual and that God won't send anyone into such a desert without preparing that person ahead of time for it. Some people rebel and walk away from the church for many years, but that's a different thing from what I went through.I doubt anyone reading this has a reason to fear, but if you choose to walk away on your own:

"If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. 2 Peter 2:20-21

 

[razeontherock]

Well you obviously present a LOT for anyone to try to wrap their head around. Still, this sticks out to me:

I don't think anyone actually stands fast unless the Lord helps.

Which is what I meant when I proposed that despite the desert, He was not "silent." The cliche "footprints in the sand" poem, or something. Even though we're sheep, we need to learn to be led, and it happens His way, by His choosing. I've wasted much time in prayer asking Him to lead me via the methods I would choose, and easily recognize!

Yet He is the Good Shepherd. Sooo ... is it possible that in the ending sequence of your dream that you aren't really the lead sheep, but He's showing the grave and dire importance of following Him closely, through unseen dangers all around?

Oh, and there's a Youtube vid of my Dad playing his C trumpet this past Easter in the Episcopal Church I was baptized in as a baby. He's 77, and playing better than ever, studying under Jeannie Pocious. (sp?) He's so in tune w/ the organ it sounds like there are 2 trumpets!!

Go Dad Not bad for someone who was supposed to have been confined to a wheelchair by the time I was 10 due to MS, and a survivor of a triple bypass. At 68 he scaled the Great Wall of China within a few months after that and was "disappointed at his endurance"

 

[Janet842]

Oh, and there's a Youtube vid of my Dad playing his C trumpet this past Easter in the Episcopal Church I was baptized in as a baby. He's 77, and playing better than ever, studying under Jeannie Pocious. (sp?) He's so in tune w/ the organ it sounds like there are 2 trumpets!!

Wow! Studying with Jeanne? Lucky man! Put the link up (or PM me) – I'd love to check it out. Your dad sounds like quite the guy!

Yet He is the Good Shepherd. Sooo ... is it possible that in the ending sequence of your dream that you aren't really the lead sheep, but He's showing the grave and dire importance of following Him closely, through unseen dangers all around?

Since the whole concept of sheep being used to lead other sheep seems to be unclear, I found the following on Sheep 201: Handling sheep and lambs (If you think about it, pastors are lead sheep – deacons, elders, bible school teachers, etc. There are many who are used of God to help the flock get where they need to go.)
___________________
Moving sheep
Very often, you need to move sheep, to bring them in from a pasture or to move them to another pasture. If you don't have a herding dog to fetch the sheep, you can train the sheep to come to a vocal command or rattle of the feed bucket. Most sheep will come when they think they are going to get grain to eat.

If these don't work, it will be necessary to go out to the field to get the flock and either drive them from behind or lead them with a feed bucket or lead sheep. Pet sheep are difficult to drive and make good lead sheep.
___________________

So maybe I'm a pet sheep and difficult to drive LOL! I can see that about me. Truthfully though, I'd be just fine following the flock all the way to that lush green pasture (there's less responsibility in my future that way). Here's a version of what it might look like if I were to roll Scene 1 backwards. It kind of looks like I just go along for the ride. No responsibilities, just a nice coast into the green pasture:

I am at the edge of an enemy village. A flock enters the village and I follow them. We are spotted, but continue all the way through to the green pasture (in this version, as well as the original, there is no confrontation, just an awareness of being seen as we go through). We leave the village and enter the green pasture.

Somehow, based on the last 28 years, getting to coast along like that just doesn't ring true.

 

[razeontherock]

Yeah, "coast" doesn't seem to be in the battle plan It's either gas or brake

 

[wayfaring man]

A brief evaluation -

Scene one - In order to be a good follower of Christ , one has to put others before them self .

Scene two - When we don't put others first , we lack the capacity to minister effectively to them in their time of need .

Scene three - Finding another / others who can confirm and agree with us about this very truth is encouraging and enabling in a positive way ; but the flesh / earthly nature does it's best to pull us back into putting our own sinful self first .

 

[Janet842]

Could Scene 1 be this simple an interpretation?

I lost my 30 year graphic design career to the economy and God put me in roof sales (buildings with no windows/doors – but do have roofs). The vast majority of people (salespeople and homeowners alike) are not saved (enemy territory). Salvation (the green pasture).

So, that could actually be the meaning?!!... I meet people on the job and do my part to lead them to Christ. Wow. Almost anti-climatic to possibly have the interpretation of that scene after 28 years of trying to puzzle it out.

Thoughts, anyone?

Janet

 

[razeontherock]

It's your dream. If you feel that's correct, I would never challenge that. But what doesn't add up to me, is the part about not being seen by the enemy. I can't find a workable parallel to support that.

 

[lilmissmontana]

This is a dream I had in the fall of 1983.

Scene 1

There is a lush green pasture with a small flock of sheep. Of them, I was the lead sheep. The flock had to leave that pasture and go through a enemy village. We had to get through without being seen by the enemy who lived there and had to travel during the middle of the day. There was only one way through and that was dead center down through the middle of the village. The village was an uninhabited looking place of windowless, door-less plain block buildings. There were no sidewalks or streets, just rows of block buildings with short grass separating them. There was no one in sight. As we were walking through the middle of the village we were spotted (no visual on this) and I knew that for the flock to get through I would have to stay behind.

Wow Janet, this is classic deliverance from Egypt

So the verse: narrow way leads to life, comes to mind.

Hi, Janet

This is totally something I'm extremely new to ... dream interpretation and have no idea if I have a gift for it even. I wish to acknowledge the Holy Spirit ... anything I might offer you that sets in your soul is from Him ... it's most certainly not from me . On that note ... I have an extreme interest in dreams and visions and have experienced a number of them. Of all them I only have understanding on a portion of them. It would seem for me, I need an interpreter.

That being said ... some things really stuck out to me on this scene one.

The very first thing I saw was as childofGod31 said ... the narrow way or path ...

the Lord gave me a visual of the narrow way a while back. It went like this ... I was looking at wide open space ... in a straight line out into space was a row of small stepping stones ... on both sides of the stones was litter and clutter and garbage everywhere ... the understanding that came with it was to stay on the narrow is so difficult because of all the garbage, false doctrines, greed, etc ... things of the world, cluttering up our minds and trying to get us to step off the stone ... the object lesson was to keep your eyes on the stones ... not on the way of the world ... for some reason I was reminded of that here. I have no idea but maybe you leading them to the 'gate' was because you had eyes to see and ears to hear ...

it interests me that it was in the middle of the day (in the Light) and in this scene and the other scenes were blank houses and blank people (void of Light)? ... kind of reminds me of the valley of dry bones?

something razeontherock said I didn't think of ... but the instant I read it I totally got it ...

the promised land ... Moses led them to it but couldn't enter it ... sort of like had to stay behind ... I have the sense with that that one sows and another reaps? Moses was to charge and encourage and strengthen Joshua to go ... I'm reminded of something the Lord showed me once ... to be a servant of God we must be willing to step down and let someone else be greater ... (doesn't mean we will have to ... but we must be willing to) ... Moses stayed behind and let another go forward ...

another thing ... the person who said only Jesus could lay down his life for the sheep ... you got them to the d(D)oor? or w(W)ay? out... and actually, fairly easily ... which reminds me of being carried along the narrow way by the Lord ... and there was a noticeable lack of clutter alongside the way in scene one ...

perhaps you were to stay behind to strengthen, encourage and such the next one ...

I'm curious ... how did you feel at the thought of staying behind ... like ... did you feel sad, lost, alright, understood it, etc?

jmview
lilmiss

 

[Janet842]

I'm curious ... how did you feel at the thought of staying behind ... like ... did you feel sad, lost, alright, understood it, etc?

Sorry, life got in the way and I've not kept up with this. Thanks for the input lilmiss...

In answer to this question, all I felt was acceptance of my circumstances. Staying behind was what was required of me and I did so willingly. No fear, no sadness, no complaints. I just wanted to see the flock get through.
_________

I do still wonder about the lack of windows and doors – mainly because the automatic assumption is to look at what is missing rather than at what remains. No windows or doors, but there were roofs. In our "Christian speak", it's really easy to jump to the typical "open a window, close a door" sort of thing. But if the buildings in my dream point to my current job (roof sales) that would mean that I have reached Scene 1. But I have no idea how to read it – time-lined out to read from right to left, or... ?

 

[razeontherock]

I just wanted to see the flock get through.

I still want to see how the pot in scene 2 connects here ...

 

[lilmissmontana]

Sorry, life got in the way and I've not kept up with this. Thanks for the input lilmiss...

In answer to this question, all I felt was acceptance of my circumstances. Staying behind was what was required of me and I did so willingly. No fear, no sadness, no complaints. I just wanted to see the flock get through.
_________

I do still wonder about the lack of windows and doors – mainly because the automatic assumption is to look at what is missing rather than at what remains. No windows or doors, but there were roofs. In our "Christian speak", it's really easy to jump to the typical "open a window, close a door" sort of thing. But if the buildings in my dream point to my current job (roof sales) that would mean that I have reached Scene 1. But I have no idea how to read it – time-lined out to read from right to left, or... ?

and I'm here late because life got in the way ... what a wondeful way to put that ... thank you for responding ...

I still have some wonders about a couple things, too ... the main thing that keeps coming to mind about the blank windows and doors is 'Joel' keeps popping in my head ... the only verse I can connect house to without going and reading them all is the one that talks about the wires running along the streets ... up the walls and roofs ... and in through the windows ... (which there are no windows in your scene) and then my mind goes to the verse in Isaiah 5 about woe to those that build house unto house ... and so forth ... I just can't put my finger on what that means to me or you in this context ... all this to say ... I don't know, either

the verse in Isaiah 5 is one of 6 woes to the vineyard of the Lord with reference to the end times ... the verse I spoke of includes cross reference verses and also, is directly speaking to landgrabbers? could that mean something to you?

I think I understand a little better now how you're trying to put this together ... it's difficult for me because not only do I not think that way ... I think backwards from most ... I keep coming to first things first in the manner I start from the present point and work backwards in time to solve things ... and if I understand it you're not for sure seeing the scenes as in the order given ...

I do totally understand what you're saying about going to the obvious place, though from a different angle ... I'm a hunter ... when you're spotting deer, you don't look for what's missing or obvious ... you look at what shouldn't be there or doesn't look right ... from that point of view, what doesn't look right is the absence of doors, windows, and people ... but what is there that shouldn't be? ... I just can't see what that might even be ... I think only you can know that ...

when I look at what remains I see empty buildings with roofs and free access to wherever you're headed ... not one thing even attempted to stop you if I remember right ... but for some reason you lead the others with a sense of they need to be led ... and somewhat covertly ... but once they are through, they're no longer your responsibility ...

I also am reminded of the verses that speak of keeping Christ's covering over us ... in this case IF it applied it would mean the roof would be like Christ's covering? and then I suppose you could say the foundation (Jesus) is there, as well ... just musing ... thoughts that may or may not help ... it just truly intrigues me ...

I was drawn to your thread in part because I like the way you speak of spiritual things and your testimony a few posts back was so putting yourself out there so freely and uninhibited ... I'm a huge believer of our experiences are important to others, not just ourselves ... so we must be transparent ...

and yes ... you're question a few posts back about could it be that simple ... I think it could ... you do in, a sense, guide people from one point to another and when they get there it is the end of your responsibility ... sort of?

I agree razeontherock is right about it's your dream ... I for sure can't know ... just hoping something in what I said rings a bell ... if not then I need maybe to understand what brought me here for what reason so I can learn, too

all in all I wish you the best ... God bless

 

[Janet842]

Thanks for your reply LilMiss – I'm starting to think that maybe this dream is just one of those things that won't be understood until I get to heaven. The only absolute certainty I have is that the dream portrays some aspect of my life because the very first thing revealed to me was the oriental man whom I met and came to know and then, years later, the revelation that the dream reads from right to left (or backwards).

And thumper 77, wow. It probably would have helped if you had actually asked me who I am before making suppositions based upon a fictitious personality. And, it would have helped if you had read enough to have learned that the dream runs backwards. The "chinese" man isn't a symbolic figure. He's a very real flesh and blood human being. When I had the dream his specific oriental country of origin wasn't given. His name is Mark Ream and his nationality is actually Korean. I met him after having the dream. I haven't been in contact with him since sometime around 1985 when he moved to California.

Here's a little insight into who I am:
Am I a conformist who needs the approval of people? NO, so very, very far from that.
Do I sometimes/often disagree with other church members? YES.
Are my thinking patterns controlled by other people. NO.
Do I believe every word of the Bible to be the inspired Word of God? YES.
Am I dependent upon the church to tell me what to think? NO. But, when necessary, I will seek out "wise counsel" from the Body of Believers.
Do I need to become more confident? NO! I probably be insufferable if I were more so.
Do I choose to rely on God for every little thing. ABSOLUTELY!
Do I care about what God thinks of me and do I allow fear of God to control my life? Oh, YES!
Should I conform to your idea of how I should live my life and what I should believe about God? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

 

[lilmissmontana]

Thanks for your reply LilMiss – I'm starting to think that maybe this dream is just one of those things that won't be understood until I get to heaven. The only absolute certainty I have is that the dream portrays some aspect of my life because the very first thing revealed to me was the oriental man whom I met and came to know and then, years later, the revelation that the dream reads from right to left (or backwards).

well, I sure understand that ... I have some I've wondered about for years ... I just figure, in God's time ...

I remember you said it reads that way ... but for some reason I can never remember about the oriental man ... anyway, I have no answers ... just musings ...

well, my firend ... the one thing we can know for sure is, if it's important you know ... the Holy Spirit will get you to the understanding ... may God bless you on the Way ... and may He lead you to the understanding ...

********************

I wanted to comment about every dream being about self ... I'd say that's a fair statement ... to a degree ... maybe it's how we look at it ... I have two dreams that I know for absolute sure what they mean ... and both of them were showing me what was hurting the heart in the other person ... the root of their heartache ... and how deep and how intense ... and what was needed with much love ...

so for that part it wasn't about me ...

I didn't even have to think to understand the meaning to me ... in the first I simply did what the Lord outlined in the dream could fill the hole in the other persons heart ... in the second ... well, much and much more prayer for the broken heart and feelings of abandonment and lonliness and all the other issues attached to the picture in the dream ...

so in that sense yes ... it was to pray ...

I guess the thought I'm trying to convey is there's always more than one way to see anything ... it seems to me it becomes slippery ground when we start absoluting anything ... that rings of the law ... which has it's place ... but not in interpreting dreams and visions ... other than if the dream goes against the law, then it's most likely not of the Lord ... from my understanding ... the only absolute is that the only way any person can interpret correctly is if the Holy Spirit is the One doing the interpreting ...

and I truly believe the majority of our dreams are just that ... dreams with no absolute signifigance attached ... my thinking is if they were all meant to be a message ... we would remember them all ... and simply from a need to sleep view and the knowledge our sub-concious goes to work when we go into the proper sleep ... if a person had a super busy day and didn't have time process everything that took place ... it would be logical, as well, that the sub-concious would process it while you slept ... no other reason for the dream than that ... but who really knows ... only God ... which brings me back full circle ... if we need to understand ... He will give us the understanding when it's in His time ... in the tween, I've noticed the dream remains as vivid years later as the moment you were in it ...

so those dreams ... I don't see them about self in any other manner than they are like when you hit the empty recycle button on your computer ... processing and dumping the things not processed ... hope that made sense ...

I do absolutely believe some are very definitely a message ... just not all that many in proportion ...

but then, again, that's jmview ... God speaks to each of us where we are ... not our neighbor, eh?

lilmiss

 

[Janet842]

Well, thumper77, I guess I'll expose you here for who you are – someone who is not a Christian. Your original, unedited post was what came through to my home email and it's one that I have to respond to by saying "Get thee behind me Satan" for your viewpoints are far from Christian.

This is thumper77's original post (color added by me):
_____________________________

Dear Janet842,

thumper77 has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - Sheep dream - in the Dreams & Visions forum of Christian Forums. Do not reply to this email.

This thread is located at:
Sheep dream - Page 4 - Christian Forums

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
Dreams are a symbolic language. The asian man, like all people in your dreams is a symbol for something you think. His race is not as important as what you think about him, or your opinions or memories of him. A complete picture of who you are in not always necessary when you are experienced enough to read the symbols because many dream symbols are universal to all people. Zombies and sheep are two of these.

Everything in a dream is about you. That is the problem you have in understanding the dream. And then of course you are so faithful you become upset at the thought that God is being critical of you in any way. Virtually every dream you have is a critical message that is so deep in symbolism it can take years of study and correction to ever get close to the message.

You are right when you say you won't understand the dream until you get to heaven, but you'll live out your live refusing to think that God would actually tell you stop being so uptight about God, and to stop caring about being so moral that it stifles your ability to live your life independently. Disagreeing with fellow church members about the bible doesn't make you independent, it makes you someone who just argues with other people who are also too afraid to live and too concerned with what other people think.

Faith is wonderful and I encourage it. But, I am experienced enough in dream interpretation to feel the answers based on the symbols. Your dream is telling you that your belief in god is so strong that you are controlled by it in a manner that prevents true independent thought.
***************


There may also be other replies, but you will not receive any more notifications until you visit the forum again.

All the best,
Christian Forums
_____________________________

What can I say, but Praise God that I am everything you think I should give up for "independence". If you were a Christian, thumper77, you would understand this, but clearly it is outside your knowing. I don't doubt that you'll eventually learn to better disguise that you're not a Christian, but you've been exposed here and now.

There is a difference between dreams sent by God – and their interpretation – and dreams originating out of the mind and experience of a human being. I now expect an argument from you.

Janet

 

[Janet842]

PS If anyone would like to check that my post is true, please send me your home email address privately and I will forward to you thumper77's original post as it came to my home email address.

Janet

 

[Janet842]

The reason I doubted – and continue to doubt – your faith in Christ is because you don't seem to understand that the Christian life is not about being independent from God or acting independently from God. The culture in the United States that lauds independence is opposed to Christianity.

"God helps those who help themselves" is probably the most often quoted phrase that is not found in the Bible. This saying is usually attributed to Ben Franklin, quoted in Poor Richard's Almanac in 1757. In actuality, it originated from Algernon Sydney in 1698 in an article titled Discourses Concerning Government. Whatever the original source of this saying, the Bible teaches the opposite. God helps the helpless! Isaiah 25:4 declares, "For You have been a defense for the helpless, a defense for the needy in his distress, a refuge from the storm, a shade from the heat..." Romans 5:6 tells us, "For while we were still helpless, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly." .... copied from gotquestions.org

Got wants His people to be dependent upon him in ALL things, not just the tiny areas of our lives we may choose to award to him.

Christianity is also not a "get out of jail free" card that allows us to disregard God's precepts for living a moral life. I also never made myself out to be any kind of perfect Christian. I already posted on here where I see that parts of this dream reveal my failings. But, that's OK if you didn't see those. There are a lot of responses to this topic so I expect you didn't read them all.

That you edited your post does not make your beliefs satanic, but your original post expresses your viewpoint more clearly and is a definite departure from Christianity. When I say "get thee behind me Satan" that is a quote from the Bible from what Jesus said when encouraged to take an easy way out, a way opposed to the will of God. To offer a suggestion to go any direction other than following God can never be viewed as Biblical, or Holy Spirit led. So from what spirit do suggestions like that come? For me to say that to something you wrote it is to say that if I were to follow what you would have me do than I will not be following God. If I don't follow God, then who am I following?

 

[jingleheimer]

were the people you gave food to OLD people?

 

[Janet842]

thumper77, if you had bothered to look, the Edification forums are for Christians only. If you take the time to study the New Testament you will understand that the "professional" interpretation of sheep in dreams is very different from the Biblical examples that compare people to sheep.

You need to get out of the Edification forums. I realize you think you have something to offer, but your lack of understanding of Christianity is not edifying.

 

[Janet842]

were the people you gave food to OLD people?

The people were adults of all ages. No children were in the line. Interesting question jingleheimer, do you have some sort of insight here?