Shattered ~ Did satan’s sin cause the big bang?

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I don't see why God would see it as a means to contain the mess or why he would even need to use it as a means to contain the mess. Again, my God is big enough to not need to connect the two in any way.

Containment is where we are at at this point in time imho.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Interesting proposal in the title. It is only in the last few decades that we now view the chaos
of the cosmos, entire galaxies being captured by another, collisions, and of course, stars exploding.
I was thinking one day "could the chaos of the cosmos be a reflection of how man is existing
here on earth? If we all lived in peace and harmony, would the Universe reflect this in kind?
It seems what you are suggesting with the big bang is along these lines, except we cannot blame
the devil for all the chaos, we have to reflect upon our own behavior.

You may have something there ...

 

[Gregory Thompson]

So since, lucifer was not created until the first morning, it was impossible for his sin to affect the big bang - since he didn't exist yet.

 

[Sketcher]

Containment is where we are at at this point in time imho.

But we can't project our circumstances onto God whenever that rebellion occurred. To me, it doesn't do him justice.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I don't see why God would see it as a means to contain the mess or why he would even need to use it as a means to contain the mess. Again, my God is big enough to not need to connect the two in any way.

You may be right too. It’s something I will keep on the back burner as a possible guide post but no more at this time.

Thanks for all your responses!

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

But we can't project our circumstances onto God whenever that rebellion occurred. To me, it doesn't do him justice.

What I would like to do is shift the ‘blame’ from off of God, not the opposite like what I see being judged of Him these days.

 

[Sketcher]

What I would like to do is shift the ‘blame’ from off of God, not the opposite like what I see being judged of Him these days.

As a Christian, I'm not seeing what to blame God for. The blame is likely coming from non-Christians, or Christians whose understanding is not where it should be. Therefore, when dealing with that, I don't believe we are to alter the Christian narrative to fit their understanding. Such an alteration would be based on short-sightedness, which doesn't do God justice because there is so much more of him than they are giving him credit for, and so much more to him than we know. Similarly, there is more to the concepts they are using to frame their blame of God than they know, or than we know.

 

[RDKirk]

What I would like to do is shift the ‘blame’ from off of God, not the opposite like what I see being judged of Him these days.

God fully accepts the moral ramifications of His sovereignty. That's not our problem. He's big enough to deal with that.

It's not necessary, in the preaching of the gospel, to defend God's actions. Atheists would like to make that seem a necessity and will constantly shoot "what about" arrows, but those are just diversions to keep you from actually expounding the gospel.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

So since, lucifer was not created until the first morning, it was impossible for his sin to affect the big bang - since he didn't exist yet.

Job 3:9
May its morning stars grow dark.May it wait for daylight but have none;may it not see the breaking of dawn.
Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Job 38:32
Canst thou bring forth the morning star or the evening star at convenient times, and convey them home again?
​

I can’t, can you?

 

[nolidad]

Imagine, if you will, God containing fragments of Himself into vessels so as not to lose anything. The Logos, with a word, gathering together those whom had joined satan’s rebellion into vessels of dishonour and those who had not into vessels of honour.

2 Timothy 2
20 A large house contains not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay. Some indeed are for honorable use, but others are for common use. 21So if anyone cleanses himself of what is unfit, he will be a vessel for honor: sanctified, useful to the Master, and prepared for every good work.…
Romans 9
20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to Him who formed it, “Why did You make me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have the right to make from the same lump of clay one vessel for special occasions and another for common use? 22What if God, intending to show His wrath and make His power known, bore with great patience the vessels of His wrath, prepared for destruction?
Isaiah 45:9
Woe to him who quarrels with his Maker--one clay pot among many. Does the clay ask the potter, 'What are you making?' Does your work say, 'He has no hands’?​

Misuse of freedom. Evil was not part of God’s original creation. Evil is destined for destruction when God will be “all in all”. They cannot ultimately co-exist. Embodiment functions as a necessary phase of the soul’s return to God. The dishonour serves to instigate honour within that which will remain. In the end God will restore the harmony, but meanwhile we get to choose what constitutes … me. We determine our destiny thru the exercise of our freedom. The use or misuse of that freedom constitutes the benevolence or wrath of divine providence.

All is gathered up so that nothing is lost of the fragments. The spoils from going out are taken to build a new and better form of worship. The worship of spirit and truth. Without the dross. Returned to the former estate. Stemming from proper use of freedom.

So we see the devil, created good, but thru the misuse of freedom originating evil. Humans can and do propagate evil thru neglect of cooperation to seek and return to perfection, which is being one with Him. No doing anything that misuses other’s freedom. Seek first the kingdom of God, and all will be added to you.

As Eve was contained within Adam so is the church contained within Christ. Levi was in the loins of Abraham when the tythe was made to Melchezedec. Our Melchezedec has carried us home again. Praise God!!!


Discuss.

The only big bang that took place in the six days of Creation was when : "and God said" andBANG there was!

 

[Strong in Him]

And your problem with that is?

It's not what the Bible says.

God created; God spoke and the universe came into being. If Satan being thrown out of heaven was the big bang which led to the formation of the universe, then it is based on, and a result of, sin and rebellion. God would not have declared that to be VERY good, neither would we be created by him in his image.

I don’t study anything else.

But what you said is not in Genesis 1, John 1:1-3, Colossians 1:15-16 or Hebrews 1:2
Read the chapter - God spoke and things came into being. "God saw .... God said ...", not God threw Satan out of heaven and that caused everything to be created.
If God created everything it was because he wanted to and chose to, and the universe has a purpose and a plan. If Satan did it, then everything was made in and by sin.

 

[Mark Quayle]

the soul’s return to God

Huh? Where is this in Scripture?

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Job 3:9
May its morning stars grow dark.May it wait for daylight but have none;may it not see the breaking of dawn.
Job 38:7
When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Job 38:32
Canst thou bring forth the morning star or the evening star at convenient times, and convey them home again?
​

I can’t, can you?

I was remembering Isaiah 14:12.

 

[Toro]

I dont believe it was.

IF a big bang even happened.....

I DO believe that God merely speaking into existence that which was previously nothingness..... would be enough of a "big bang"

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

~Cassia~ said: ↑
the soul’s return to God

Huh? Where is this in Scripture?

I'm not insinuating reincarnation by any means. Just as Levi was in the loins of Abraham, Eve was brought forth from Adam, the church brought forth from Christ, so Christ holds all within Himself. ( For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him. ) and again ( For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross. ) To reconcile to Himself. As I said I won’t discard this with so much surrounding it, but will not use as anything but a far-fetched marker that may be helpful in the future ... or not.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I was remembering Isaiah 14:12.

Morning Star was a name for Lucifer before his fall. Only Jesus can lead home.

Rev 2:28
I will give him the morning star.
Rev 22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Morning Star was a name for Lucifer before his fall. Only Jesus can lead home.

Rev 2:28
I will give him the morning star.
Rev 22:16
I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

Red herring.

My post was reply to the question of the thread.

Of course only Jesus can lead us home.

 

[Mark Quayle]

~Cassia~ said: ↑
the soul’s return to God

I'm not insinuating reincarnation by any means. Just as Levi was in the loins of Abraham, Eve was brought forth from Adam, the church brought forth from Christ, so Christ holds all within Himself. ( For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him. ) and again ( For God was pleased to have all His fullness dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through the blood of His cross. )

I didn't expect you meant 'reincarnation', but maybe something like the SDA (I think it is) who believe we were in eternity past with God and will return there.

But as to your response, I don't see that qualifying the use of such terminology as the "return" of individuals to God.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Red herring.

My post was reply to the question of the thread.

Of course only Jesus can lead us home.

And of course satan is not the morning star when Jesus is. But you believe whatever red herring you wish, without investigation.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

I didn't expect you meant 'reincarnation', but maybe something like the SDA (I think it is) who believe we were in eternity past with God and will return there.

But as to your response, I don't see that qualifying the use of such terminology as the "return" of individuals to God.

It was an Origen error, my apologies.