Sex

[Traderjoeeee]

Hello everyone, I’m new to this community so I do apologize in advance if I posted this in the wrong sub-forum. I also apologize of the length of this post. I just want to accurately relay my thoughts to you all. Anyhow let me begin, I need some opinions/advice on a particle part of my life. Obviously it deals with my current relationship with my girlfriend.
We’ve known each other for nearly a year now, and have been “officially” (We had been dating prior to it becoming official for awhile) dating for three months. Now in this year of knowing her and our relationship flourishing beautifully even with the little bumps along the way, in all seriousness I have come to realize I want to spend the rest of my life with her.
We have sat down and talked about marriage many times and we both seriously agree we want to do this once I am out of college in two and a half years. We have also sat down, talked, and also both agreed how we want Christ to be in our relationship and eventual marriage. We are both Christian, me being more exposed to it throughout life then her. But we have both struggled profusely with our faith, her not having much of a Christian upbringing, so there is a lot she has yet to discover and much she has doubts on as well. With me, I had entirely a Christian upbringing but as I got older I began to question quite a lot of my own faith and still today (Though I am quite firm now in saying & believing Christ is my Lord and Savior, and accepting him as such.). Now to bring about my main point, we have engaged in premarital sex. A mistake in the eyes of many I know, but I have a hard time seeing why it is bad if we plan to become married? Both I and her talked about it prior to us having sex, and we made the event more of a spiritual moment / covenant rather then it being what many make it out to be. I made my promise to her in those moments, that I’d always be hers, she promised the same about herself. A few days afterwards I became rather frustrated, because according to The Bible, that’s sexual immorality, fornification, whatever you wish to call it. But I personally felt I had not sinned, because in my eyes this woman is to be my wife, and in my heart she already is. Recently we have decided to be celibate till we are by law married and a big challenge that is no doubt but one that we both feel is no hurdle we cannot overcome. So my main question aside from the one displayed in bold above…

- Even with all my thoughts on the matter, in your eyes, have we really messed up bad with having premarital sex?
- With our actions with having premarital sex, are we possibly seen in a bad light in Christ’s eyes?
- We want him in our relationship and marriage, but because of this, would we not have this said wonderful blessing?


Thank you for your time everyone and in advance, thank you for your input.
God bless you all.

 

[k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe]

- Even with all my thoughts on the matter, in your eyes, have we really messed up bad with having premarital sex?

What you did was a sin.

- With our actions with having premarital sex, are we possibly seen in a bad light in Christ’s eyes?

You sinned, and it seems as if you are repentant. Jesus died for us and loves us no matter what we've done. You have repented so the slate is wiped clean. Live to honor Him.

- We want him in our relationship and marriage, but because of this, would we not have this said wonderful blessing?

Your slate is clean. He still wants to be a part of your relationship and future marriage!

This is what I believe Jesus would say to you:

John 8

1But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. 2At dawn he appeared again in the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. 3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.
But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.
9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"
11"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

 

[dayhiker]

I think the worse thing you can do from now on is let this become a big guilt thing and that guilt would cause you more problems than the premarital sex would.

Rom.8:1 There is no condemnation in Christ.

 

[Vico]

Your questions sound like you think you can get away with it. Yes you can be forgiven if you truly are broken and repent. But the scar will still be there. You said you don't even see it as sin, so how can you repent of something you don't see as sin.
Kind David, a man after the Lord's own heart. God killed the baby (a human) because of sexual immorality, 2 Samuel 12.
Don't play with sin, it's not joke, its a reality.

 

[Traderjoeeee]

Your questions sound like you think you can get away with it. Yes you can be forgiven if you truly are broken and repent. But the scar will still be there. You said you don't even see it as sin, so how can you repent of something you don't see as sin.
Kind David, a man after the Lord's own heart. God killed the baby (a human) because of sexual immorality, 2 Samuel 12.
So don't be surprised when your wife can't convince or gets a miscarriage or there is marital strife (or anything else). Don't play with sin, it's not joke, its a reality.

Do we live in the era of the "God of Wrath"? or "God of Grace"? I'm pretty sure King David lived in the era prior to the coming of Christ..

Things were MUCH different then buddy..
but God bless you none the less even though you insulted both me and my spouse..how dare you condemn such a terrible thing upon a couple. The way this relationship is, and our current life situations, we can't get married yet. There is several things we need to get done prior to being able to get married by Law (one was mentioned in the main post..). Mostly in the eyes of the majority of our families as well as our own personal viewpoints on what comes about with US Marriage. But I don't see why this is a bad thing (sin) if we already see each other as husband and wife in our hearts and in Christ. Is Christ limited by the United States Law? or that of two families? I think not.

So my apologies if we don't see eye to eye on this, but for crying out loud don't condemn such terrible things upon your fellow man buddy.

 

[Vico]

I apologies if I offended you, wasn't my intention. I may have read your post wrong.

"I made my promise to her in those moments, that I’d always be hers, she promised the same about herself."

It just didn't seem like a marriage to me and let me explain what i mean.

Marriage of course is not based on governments. I could marry and then one month later (or whenever) sign the paper making me legally married. Or i could fly to my citizen country and sign the papers there making my spouse also a citizen ect. But the word 'marry' is still important.

When I mean marry I mean, in front of several witness and a pastor/elder ect. That asks the vows, prays over the marriage ect.

So was that something that happened in your 'marriage'? or was it more of a personal thing, between you and your girl? Did someone pray and affirm the marriage? were their witnesses?

 

[dayhiker]

personally, I think you both expressed your love for each other and you committed no sin. Ya, I know the church disagrees.

I think you will find as long as you seek Jesus you will have a relationship with Jesus.

 

[twins15]

The problem, of course, is that all the time people plan to get married, and "commit" themselves to each other, and then they don't end up getting married. It happens all the time, everyday. How many times have you heard people say, "We were planning on getting married, and then he broke my heart?" Or some variation of that.

If you have known her for a year and have been officially dating for 3 months, you do not know you want to spend the rest of your life with her. Sorry to be so blunt, but you are still in the infatuation stage of the relationship. I know you will disagree, but the experience of many, many others (and of my own) tells me this is true. Which, of course, doesn't mean you won't marry this girl, but at age 19 after 3 months of officially dating, I would strongly suggest that it is far too early to know for sure.

Also, it seems to be like deep down in your hearts you know you have committed a sin and done wrong, or else why would you now decide to remain celibate until you are lawfully married? If you truly believe you did nothing wrong, then why change your behavior?

Don't get me wrong, I think it is an absolutely wonderful idea now to wait until marriage, and I think that approach would bring you great blessings (of course it is not too late to have the blessing of Christ within your relationship, with any sincere repentance you will be forgiven)... but if you think you did nothing wrong, why are you changing your behavior?

 

[Singermom]

I'm NOT saying that this will happen to you, but let me tell you a true story:

A young woman, Abby, and her boyfriend, Bruce, had dated for quite a few years. They got engaged, and pledged their lives to each other. They engaged in premarital sex, figuring that they WERE engaged and WERE getting married.

Abby became pregnant.

Bruce, with no legal ties binding him...broke the engagement and left her.

Abby is now a single mother with a lovely, fatherless son.

 

[Traderjoeeee]

I'm NOT saying that this will happen to you, but let me tell you a true story:

A young woman, Abby, and her boyfriend, Bruce, had dated for quite a few years. They got engaged, and pledged their lives to each other. They engaged in premarital sex, figuring that they WERE engaged and WERE getting married.

Abby became pregnant.

Bruce, with no legal ties binding him...broke the engagement and left her.

Abby is now a single mother with a lovely, fatherless son.

Well how unfortunate for the son now isn't it? How shameful of the man to do such a thing, getting the woman pregnant before marriage then LEAVING HER.

 

[Traderjoeeee]

The problem, of course, is that all the time people plan to get married, and "commit" themselves to each other, and then they don't end up getting married. It happens all the time, everyday. How many times have you heard people say, "We were planning on getting married, and then he broke my heart?" Or some variation of that.

Actually I've never heard anyone say such a thing, then that occurring afterwards.

If you have known her for a year and have been officially dating for 3 months, you do not know you want to spend the rest of your life with her. Sorry to be so blunt, but you are still in the infatuation stage of the relationship. I know you will disagree, but the experience of many, many others (and of my own) tells me this is true. Which, of course, doesn't mean you won't marry this girl, but at age 19 after 3 months of officially dating, I would strongly suggest that it is far too early to know for sure.

You are correct, that I've known her for about a year, but we had dating for more then three months buddy, please read carefully before you post.
Now, Twins15, how would you sir possibly know I am still infatuating over this woman? Am I lusting for her in some way? I think not. Do I have a overly exaggerated love for this woman? I think not. I love her and thats that. She balances me out, as I do for her. Sure, I would strongly agree with you that you are correct. That at the age of nineteen and only dating for 3 months, then saying you plan to marry is foolish. But discussing it many times, over the course of knowing her, then after many months, both saying we wish to marry each other is somehow foolish? Please explain yourself Twins15. I've known quite a few people that have gotten married soon after they've met each other, some are almost to their ten year anniversary, then some are almost to their twenty fifth. So how can you possibly say, to a nineteen year old, who is saying he wishes to marry someone, knowing this nineteen year old knows individuals who were only two years older then him when they got married. That he is in the infatuation stage of their relationship, and him wanting to marry her is just unrealistic and illogical thinking?

Also, it seems to be like deep down in your hearts you know you have committed a sin and done wrong, or else why would you now decide to remain celibate until you are lawfully married? If you truly believe you did nothing wrong, then why change your behavior?

Don't get me wrong, I think it is an absolutely wonderful idea now to wait until marriage, and I think that approach would bring you great blessings (of course it is not too late to have the blessing of Christ within your relationship, with any sincere repentance you will be forgiven)... but if you think you did nothing wrong, why are you changing your behavior?

Yes well lets see here Twins15, Yes deep down in my heart I felt I had done an act that had gone against everything that I was brought up on. Which made me feel guilty, that I had gone against those teachings. But no you are incorrect in the sense that deep down I felt I had committed a sin in the eyes of Christ. Deep down I felt uncertain if I had committed a sin due to reasons I've posted above. Hence why I wished to find others Christian's theological viewpoints on the matter, hence why I posted this thread in the first place. Also I personally did not bring up the idea to be celibate till marriage, it was her that did so. It's been much harder then we anticipated to do, but thats the reality of that particular part of our lives, we've done it once since we made that decision. We burn with passion for each other. But we made that decision due to being uncertain if we had done wrong. We felt, we had done no wrong, I did some soul searching and still felt I had done no wrong. But due to our up bringing through the Church, what we had done was a terrible sin! So our feelings of us having done no wrong in having sex prior to lawfully being married is rather a taboo now isn't it?

 

[Traderjoeeee]

[Double post, my apologies]

 

[toprhi]

Of course, you have sinned, that goes without saying. But you will be forgiven if you repent which goes without saying as well.

The bottom line is if you have sex with someone who is not your wife/husband it is a sin. You say the two of you made promises to each other and you intend for her to be your wife...even by your own admission, this woman is not your wife, therefore having sex with her was wrong.

I'm not saying this act condemns you or that you can't be forgiven, I'm just saying it was wrong.

 

[twins15]

Actually I've never heard anyone say such a thing, then that occurring afterwards.

Ok, well then you have some fortunate friends... I have heard that from more than one person, and heard other people say they have heard it...

Traderjoe]You are correct, that I've known her for about a year, but we had dating for more then three months buddy, please read carefully before you post.

Sorry.... you have been "officially" dating for 3 months, and unofficially dating for "awhile" before that, my apologies...

Now, Twins15, how would you sir possibly know I am still infatuating over this woman? Am I lusting for her in some way? I think not. Do I have a overly exaggerated love for this woman? I think not. I love her and thats that. She balances me out, as I do for her. Sure, I would strongly agree with you that you are correct. That at the age of nineteen and only dating for 3 months, then saying you plan to marry is foolish. But discussing it many times, over the course of knowing her, then after many months, both saying we wish to marry each other is somehow foolish? Please explain yourself Twins15.

Of course I don't any of these things as stone cold facts, I have never met you or her. I say all of this based on my life experience, based on many people that I have known, especially at your age. (and for the record, I would say the same thing to someone my age, as I would expect them to say to me if it was a similar situation)... I say all of this because it is very difficult to come to know someone well enough to be positive that you want to marry them after only 1 year of knowing, and less time than that dating them. Based on my experience (again, both myself and many people that I know), it is not that uncommon for a relationship to seem great and for a couple to seem perfect together, and then slowly have them see that they are not right for each other. This is especially true the younger the couple. This is not a judgment on you, this is based on history of young couples where both individuals have a lot of growing to do (which I assume anyone at that age does).

I've known quite a few people that have gotten married soon after they've met each other, some are almost to their ten year anniversary, then some are almost to their twenty fifth. So how can you possibly say, to a nineteen year old, who is saying he wishes to marry someone, knowing this nineteen year old knows individuals who were only two years older then him when they got married. That he is in the infatuation stage of their relationship, and him wanting to marry her is just unrealistic and illogical thinking?

I too have known people that have got married soon after they've met each other and gone on to live happy lives together. I have also known people that got married soon after they met and they are now divorced. I have also known couples who thought they were going to be together forever, and wound up breaking up a little later into the relationship. I am not saying it is illogical to want to marry someone at your age and your stage of the relationship... that is great. I am saying it is not right to pretend as if you are already married (which is essentially what you would be doing if engaging in premarital sex) at this point.

Yes well lets see here Twins15, Yes deep down in my heart I felt I had done an act that had gone against everything that I was brought up on. Which made me feel guilty, that I had gone against those teachings. But no you are incorrect in the sense that deep down I felt I had committed a sin in the eyes of Christ. Deep down I felt uncertain if I had committed a sin due to reasons I've posted above. Hence why I wished to find others Christian's theological viewpoints on the matter, hence why I posted this thread in the first place. Also I personally did not bring up the idea to be celibate till marriage, it was her that did so. It's been much harder then we anticipated to do, but thats the reality of that particular part of our lives, we've done it once since we made that decision. We burn with passion for each other. But we made that decision due to being uncertain if we had done wrong. We felt, we had done no wrong, I did some soul searching and still felt I had done no wrong. But due to our up bringing through the Church, what we had done was a terrible sin! So our feelings of us having done no wrong in having sex prior to lawfully being married is rather a taboo now isn't it?

If you want my view from the theological point of view, I still believe it is wrong, and I would believe it was wrong if it was a couple that had been together for 5 years and was engaged to be married. In your heart you might see yourself as being married to her, but the church does not see it that way. If you truly feel that way, then what is the point of actually going through with a marriage ceremony and getting married?

That is not a rhetorical question, I am curious your answer... if in your heart this woman is already your wife, and you treat the relationship as such (including premarital sex), then what would actually be the point of getting married officially in the church?

I believe that the act of marriage is an eternal bond and covenant, and sex is something that is used to cement that love and care, and image the love of God. Without that covenant, there is no place for sex in a relationship, not even if you plan on marrying that person eventually.

 

[Traderjoeeee]

Ah you make some good points. Very good points sir. And I agree with you for the most part again. My apologies in advance for not making it more clear in the original post on how long her and I had been dating, it's just about 6 months now, but thats useless information at this point in the thread heh.

Now..time to quote you

Of course I don't any of these things as stone cold facts, I have never met you or her. I say all of this based on my life experience, based on many people that I have known, especially at your age. (and for the record, I would say the same thing to someone my age, as I would expect them to say to me if it was a similar situation)... I say all of this because it is very difficult to come to know someone well enough to be positive that you want to marry them after only 1 year of knowing, and less time than that dating them. Based on my experience (again, both myself and many people that I know), it is not that uncommon for a relationship to seem great and for a couple to seem perfect together, and then slowly have them see that they are not right for each other. This is especially true the younger the couple. This is not a judgment on you, this is based on history of young couples where both individuals have a lot of growing to do (which I assume anyone at that age does).

Oh well yes, I completely agree with this and its understandable for you to see it as such when it comes to this situation. Her and I are a young couple, thats reality. But I will say, if anything, this relationship between her and I is far from perfect lol, aside from the premarital sex.

I too have known people that have got married soon after they've met each other and gone on to live happy lives together. I have also known people that got married soon after they met and they are now divorced. I have also known couples who thought they were going to be together forever, and wound up breaking up a little later into the relationship. I am not saying it is illogical to want to marry someone at your age and your stage of the relationship... that is great. I am saying it is not right to pretend as if you are already married (which is essentially what you would be doing if engaging in premarital sex) at this point.

lol, yes I've known several of those too (never known anyone that got married soon after and divorced though, heard of some though).

If you want my view from the theological point of view, I still believe it is wrong, and I would believe it was wrong if it was a couple that had been together for 5 years and was engaged to be married. In your heart you might see yourself as being married to her, but the church does not see it that way. If you truly feel that way, then what is the point of actually going through with a marriage ceremony and getting married?

That is not a rhetorical question, I am curious your answer... if in your heart this woman is already your wife, and you treat the relationship as such (including premarital sex), then what would actually be the point of getting married officially in the church?

Good question. I personally have come to have a extremely bad taste in my mouth when it comes to the Church. If anything, it would be to make my family happy, as well as hers. I believe in Christ as my Lord and Savior, but I don't like the Church. On that note, why would I care if the Church doesn't recognize her and I as husband and wife? The Church is not Christ is it?
I feel as though this covenant is made when you both agree upon them under Christ. Not under Christ with the permission of a pastor. When it comes to being married "officially" in accordance to Law? Well then yes of course! By all means let a pastor have the honors.

I believe that the act of marriage is an eternal bond and covenant, and sex is something that is used to cement that love and care, and image the love of God. Without that covenant, there is no place for sex in a relationship, not even if you plan on marrying that person eventually.

Amen to that..partially But you never know, I say partially now. As you said, we are young. Our viewpoints can change pertaining to certain things while others stay concrete throughout our lives. We are always growing, always learning, always maturing. Perhaps we will see premarital sex as wrong in the future, maybe we won't. I'm just uncertain on it as of now. But you make some very fine points Twins15, I really like seeing this type of participation in a forum like this.

 

[SiyoNqoba]

The fact of the matter is that you do not know whether you will be married until you actually are married. Anything could happen between now and then. One of you could even die.

The only advice I have for you is to keep in mind this particular part of Scripture, because God's Word speaks more clearly then any of ours could:

Now listen, you who say, "Today or tomorrow we will go to this or that city, spend a year there, carry on business and make money." Why, you do not even know what will happen tomorrow. What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes. Instead, you ought to say, "If it is the Lord's will, we will live and do this or that." As it is, you boast and brag. All such boasting is evil. Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins.
James 4:13-17

 

[Singermom]

Good question. I personally have come to have a extremely bad taste in my mouth when it comes to the Church. If anything, it would be to make my family happy, as well as hers. I believe in Christ as my Lord and Savior, but I don't like the Church. On that note, why would I care if the Church doesn't recognize her and I as husband and wife? The Church is not Christ is it?

John 12:44-50

Then Jesus cried out, “When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me.
When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me.
I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.
“As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it.
There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day.
For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it.
I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say.”

 

[Luther073082]

Let me just say this. If I had a dime for every time someone was so sure they where going to marry someone and it just didn't pan out.

God told us to wait for marriage for a reason, not "wait til you plan to marry" but wait til you marry.

Your sins are forgiven, but you need to accept that you did sin in order to improve yourselves. If you rely on your feelings too much to determine what is right and wrong then you will soon fall into apostacy.

Trust scripture above your feelings. Its a lesson that is hard to learn and I had to learn it when I became a Christian (as I was not raised Christian). But scripture should be trusted above your feelings.

 

[gzt]

What Luther said.

It's a little complicated, because marriage is a sort of "natural institution", it existed before law, so it's obviously something a little different from the legal institution of marriage. So you are right to think that the agreement the two of you have is different from the the certificate that the local legal authorities give you. But a good, rough rule of thumb is that you're married when you openly hold out to the world that you're married and live together as a married couple. Traditionally, cultures have rituals for that, and the legal systems of various countries have typically tacked some legal documentation on top. I think, throughout most of history, the whole marriage process has been fairly quick, so what you have just done would be almost incomprehensible, as the delay between deciding to be married and being married is rather short and the consummation of the marriage is very much tied up with getting married.

Anyway, the long and the short of it is that you should get married and do it as soon as possible. The difference between your private commitment to each other and marriage is that marriage is not secret, it's openly declared and involves the community. So get married soon, have a wedding soon, you don't need all the trappings that society now says you must have, and stay chaste until then.

 

[Luther073082]

What Luther said.

It's a little complicated, because marriage is a sort of "natural institution", it existed before law, so it's obviously something a little different from the legal institution of marriage. So you are right to think that the agreement the two of you have is different from the the certificate that the local legal authorities give you. But a good, rough rule of thumb is that you're married when you openly hold out to the world that you're married and live together as a married couple. Traditionally, cultures have rituals for that, and the legal systems of various countries have typically tacked some legal documentation on top. I think, throughout most of history, the whole marriage process has been fairly quick, so what you have just done would be almost incomprehensible, as the delay between deciding to be married and being married is rather short and the consummation of the marriage is very much tied up with getting married.

Anyway, the long and the short of it is that you should get married and do it as soon as possible. The difference between your private commitment to each other and marriage is that marriage is not secret, it's openly declared and involves the community. So get married soon, have a wedding soon, you don't need all the trappings that society now says you must have, and stay chaste until then.

Although I don't agree that the solution is to get married asap especially when at least one of you is still in school (if not both of you.)

I do agree that a private committment to be married is more or less just an engagement and not a marriage. Marriage is when you do the things necessary for general society to consider you married. A small wedding with a marriage license and some witnesses would suffice by itself.