Sex IS a need, for some.

[McScribe]

You asked me to provide a "yes" or "no" (AFTER I had already elaborated--a LOT). I have provided PLENTY to make my point.

You've made your point. Sex in marriage is an afterthought, an aftereffect. Crystal.

 

[Created2Write]

This is what I was asking, mk:

"So, is sex just some physical reaction to love, commitment, honesty, etc? Or is it about those things as well? IOW, is sex nothing more than some physical release only made beautiful when everything is aligned just right? Or is sex about those things, meaning, sex is an outward expression of those things and can't really be separated from them? It can't be both at the same time."

 

[chaz345]

You asked me to provide a "yes" or "no" (AFTER I had already elaborated--a LOT). I have provided PLENTY to make my point.

Your elaboration though was VERY confusing. To connect maritial sex with desires of the flesh and evil sensuality, even though in context it's plain that maritial sex is the last thing those verses are talking about is just wrong. Yes maritial sex CAN be those things. But it is not by nature those things.

 

[mkgal1]

<<God help me with my obvious lack of self-control.>>

I don't agree with how you distinguished between the two categories of sex, C2W. Where the "line" was drawn.

I believe sex that is a response to a love that is between two married people, where honesty, trust, and mutual agreement are priorities is beautiful and something to be celebrated & worked towards.

Sex that is based on greed, obligation, and selfish ambition....IMO destroys love.

 

[Created2Write]

<<God help me with my obvious lack of self-control.>>

I don't agree with how you distinguished between the two categories of sex, C2W. Where the "line" was drawn.

I believe sex that is a response to a love that is between two married people, where honesty, trust, and mutual agreement are priorities is beautiful and something to be celebrated & worked towards.

Sex that is based on greed, obligation, and selfish ambition....IMO destroys love.

Okay. My only question after that is this: where has anyone in this thread advocated sex based on greed, obligation or selfish ambition?

 

[chaz345]

Okay. My only question after that is this: where has anyone in this thread advocated sex based on greed, obligation or selfish ambition?

My question too.

Greed, obligation and selfish ambition came in as part of the answer to or after my question about sex being of secondary importance or comming after all the other things in marriage. Putting sex on an EQUAL plane with the other aspects of marriage in no way indicates greed or selfishness or "desires of the flesh" or evil sensuality. Putting it ABOVE them might, but no one is doing that.


I'd absolutely agree that sex in a marriage in the absence of emotional imtimacy, trust and honesty is not a good thing and will not, by itself create those things from nothing. However it is more than a reflection of those things. It is a PART of building them a part of completeing them.

 

[mkgal1]

I believe that the prudent thing to do is to have healthy standards that don't allow for things to destroy love (what is within our control). Just like the best way to ensure our safety when driving is to choose a safe car, to wear our seat belt (no matter how far of a drive we are making), and to have our brakes and tires in good condition. It's much easier to protect a good thing (and nurture it--improve upon it) than it is to try to repair something that has been totaled.

 

[Created2Write]

I believe that the prudent thing to do is to have healthy standards that don't allow for things to destroy love (what is within our control). Just like the best way to ensure our safety when driving is to choose a safe car, to wear our seat belt (no matter how far of a drive we are making), and to have our brakes and tires in good condition. It's much easier to protect a good thing (and nurture it--improve upon it) than it is to try to repair something that has been totaled.

No one here has disagreed with this.

Where has anyone in this thread advocated sex based on greed, obligation or selfish ambition?

 

[roseread]

I love that! Thank you so much for stating that fact. I used to get devastated over the fact that my husband didn't want/need sex as often as me. But I've grown to accept it and to live with it.

Sex within marriage is wonderful. It's beautiful. No one is denying that. But it shouldn't be the "end all" when it doesn't happen anymore as often as we would like. It's hard to deal with, but it's part of life. And I would never "leave him" over it.

Well I'm not as nice a person as you are. It is devastating to me and I find that I can not live without not just the sex but the emotional intimacy anymore. I feel like I have a roommate who pays the bills while I do everything else. I don't feel like I have a husband anymore and I do not think it is fair that I should live like a nun when I did not take a vow of celibacy. I can not respect him, nor can I trust him when he has crushed my love for him by his total disregard for my needs.

Maybe someone else nicer could do it. But not me.

 

[chaz345]

I believe that the prudent thing to do is to have healthy standards that don't allow for things to destroy love (what is within our control). Just like the best way to ensure our safety when driving is to choose a safe car, to wear our seat belt (no matter how far of a drive we are making), and to have our brakes and tires in good condition. It's much easier to protect a good thing (and nurture it--improve upon it) than it is to try to repair something that has been totaled.

I don't disagree in principle. However I also don't think is it either wise nor Biblical to approach maritial sex as if it is inherently dangerous.

 

[mkgal1]

I don't disagree in principle. However I also don't think is it either wise nor Biblical to approach maritial sex as if it is inherently dangerous.

It's not "marital sex" that's "inherently dangerous", Chaz....but, we do have an enemy that seeks to kill, steal, and destroy (at least *I* believe that). I also believe that one of his main targets is a Christian marriage.....and that he uses the sexual relationship as his weapon to divide. So....I *do* believe it is absolutely a Biblical approach.

Stay alert! Watch out for your great enemy, the devil. He prowls around like a roaring lion, looking for someone to devour.

10 The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

 

[chaz345]

It's not "marital sex" that's "inherently dangerous", Chaz....but, we do have an enemy that seeks to kill, steal, and destroy (at least *I* believe that). I also believe that one of his main targets is a Christian marriage.....and that he uses the sexual relationship as his weapon to divide. So....I *do* believe it is absolutely a Biblical approach.

You've succeeded if your intent was to completely lose me. First, when asked if sex was secondary in marriage you quote verses about desires of the flesh and evil sensuality, suggesting that maritial sex was one or both of those things. The you bring in greed and selfish ambition, and now this. And you honestly wonder why some us continue to believe that you have an overall negative view of sex?

CAN sex be a desire of the flesh? Sure, but so can eating. Can sex involve greed and selfish desires? Yup, but so can working to provide for one's family. But sex need not be placed in a secondary priority in order to be kept from being those things. And like I said, we've got a whole thread of women saying that for them sex helps build or completes emotional intimacy and trust and respect not that's it's only a reflection of those things. And the idea that sex is a part of building or completeing those things simply makes sense, both from a Biblical standpoint and from a cold hard science standpoint when one looks at the physical and emotional affect is has on us.

 

[mkgal1]

I don't know if I've mentioned this before, but my working background is in internal audit. In order to ensure protection for the companies, there were safeguards in place. One was that no one person was in charge of the ledgers. Cash was never in the hands of one person, without another person present. To have safe guards in place doesn't HARM anyone......it actually protects innocent people from being blamed unjustly. Those that never have any ill intent don't even give it a second thought. Vacations were mandatory as well.....at least 3 days in a row per year. No one complained about that......it's good for everyone. That's how I see God's instruction.....everyone benefits.

 

[mkgal1]

We don&#8217;t have to choose between pleasure and God. Serving God is the ultimate pleasure; Psalm 16:11 says, At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore. But we do have to choose between the love of pleasure and the love of God. Living for God will give you many pleasures, but they only come as you love God first and refuse to love the pleasures themselves.

Because he said it much better than I. When he mentions "refuse to love the pleasures themselves"...he doesn't mean don't "enjoy" those pleasures, but don't place your faith in them (as our faith should be in God)....don't depend on those pleasures to "fulfill" you, as there can be disappointment in that. IOW....don't let sensual pleasures BE your god.

 

[Romanseight2005]

You've succeeded if your intent was to completely lose me. First, when asked if sex was secondary in marriage you quote verses about desires of the flesh and evil sensuality, suggesting that maritial sex was one or both of those things. The you bring in greed and selfish ambition, and now this. And you honestly wonder why some us continue to believe that you have an overall negative view of sex?

CAN sex be a desire of the flesh? Sure, but so can eating. Can sex involve greed and selfish desires? Yup, but so can working to provide for one's family. But sex need not be placed in a secondary priority in order to be kept from being those things. And like I said, we've got a whole thread of women saying that for them sex helps build or completes emotional intimacy and trust and respect not that's it's only a reflection of those things. And the idea that sex is a part of building or completeing those things simply makes sense, both from a Biblical standpoint and from a cold hard science standpoint when one looks at the physical and emotional affect is has on us.

I haven't read through this thread, but I am responding to the bold type.Sex isn't secondary at all, as in, unimportant in any way. But, it is fruit that is born out of a good relationship. Think of this analagy. Is an apple secondary to the apple tree? Of course it's not, in fact, it is the part we eat, and gain nourishment from. However, it would be absurd to focus on getting an apple to grow, without first making sure that the whole plant is healthy. The apple will grow, when the apple tree is healthy, and getting all that it needs to grow and thrive. On the other hand, no fruit can grow from the tree, if the tree is sickly and dying.

 

[JaneFW]

Because he said it much better than I. When he mentions "refuse to love the pleasures themselves"...he doesn't mean don't "enjoy" those pleasures, but don't place your faith in them (as our faith should be in God)....don't depend on those pleasures to "fulfill" you, as there can be disappointment in that. IOW....don't let sensual pleasures BE your god.

Just "uncloaking" to say *excellent post MK*

 

[Created2Write]

So.....yet again.....where has anyone said that sex is their god?

Where has anyone advocated sex that is from greed and selfish-ambition?

Honestly mk, I haven't the faintest idea where you're getting these things from because no one here has said anything about any of this.

It boils down to this in my mind: either sex is important, or it is not. To some in this thread sex is important. It's not the only thing that is important, but it is equally important in the relationship. No, you can't have healthy sex without respect, love and trust. But to some of us you can't have truly effective love, respect and trust without sex either.

It seems that to others here, sex is not very important. Which is fine. If it's working for you and your married is flourishing with that, then I see nothing wrong with it. But don't misunderstand those of us who do hold sex as a top priority...as a need. We aren't worshipping sex, we aren't making it a god, and the devil certainly is not using sex in our marriages as a way to divide and destroy. In fact, in my marriage that's one reason we hold sex so high on our list. It's one of the main things that keeps us totally and completely connected. Without sex in the relationship the devil has a much stronger hold, imo.

 

[McScribe]

So.....yet again.....where has anyone said that sex is their god?

Where has anyone advocated sex that is from greed and selfish-ambition?

Honestly mk, I haven't the faintest idea where you're getting these things from because no one here has said anything about any of this.

It boils down to this in my mind: either sex is important, or it is not. To some in this thread sex is important. It's not the only thing that is important, but it is equally important in the relationship. No, you can't have healthy sex without respect, love and trust. But to some of us you can't have truly effective love, respect and trust without sex either.

It seems that to others here, sex is not very important. Which is fine. If it's working for you and your married is flourishing with that, then I see nothing wrong with it. But don't misunderstand those of us who do hold sex as a top priority...as a need. We aren't worshipping sex, we aren't making it a god, and the devil certainly is not using sex in our marriages as a way to divide and destroy. In fact, in my marriage that's one reason we hold sex so high on our list. It's one of the main things that keeps us totally and completely connected. Without sex in the relationship the devil has a much stronger hold, imo.

I'd like to see this answered, because it is coming across that those who say that sex is an important factor in their marriages are being judged for it. And since we all take the Bible seriously that isn't a minor thing when you think about it.

 

[Created2Write]

I'd like to see this answered, because it is coming across that those who say that sex is an important factor in their marriages are being judged for it. And since we all take the Bible seriously that isn't a minor thing when you think about it.

Yup.

 

[hijklmnop]

I haven't read through this thread, but I am responding to the bold type.Sex isn't secondary at all, as in, unimportant in any way. But, it is fruit that is born out of a good relationship. Think of this analagy. Is an apple secondary to the apple tree? Of course it's not, in fact, it is the part we eat, and gain nourishment from. However, it would be absurd to focus on getting an apple to grow, without first making sure that the whole plant is healthy. The apple will grow, when the apple tree is healthy, and getting all that it needs to grow and thrive. On the other hand, no fruit can grow from the tree, if the tree is sickly and dying.

Great analogy!!!!