Sex After Marriage/Masturbation

[Floatingaxe]

First is was all Christians, now it's those who marry. Since you say this is biblical.

What do you mean here?

Yes, all Christians, and yes thoise who marry. Unmarried Christians ideally wouldn't be having children, would they?

As diget said, this is just your opinion which you should live by, there is no scripture to back it up, except pulling a verse out of content. You can argue your opinion, as you clearly like to do, but that doesn't make it God's will.

I once painted a wall red. The lady said it was green. We argued for hours. I then painted it green and she said it was red.

There is no need to make this a ridiculous situation.

No one is taking scripture out of context, but there are those who just want to ignore it.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Its my opinion that the one command that men and women have obeyed is to be fruitful and fill the earth. So I don't think we have to keep having more children. Clearly the NT doesn't have any command for Christians to have a lot of kids.

dayhiker

Yes. I agree. There is no quota!!! Except maybe a quiverful!

 

[united4Peace]

some unmarried Christians do have Children...yes...

Whether through rape...
or through mistakes...people live and learn...God forgives...

Our Church has baptised babies from single moms or even common law parents...
Infact I was a babe born out of wedlock to a very Christian mom who thanks God for helping her out in life and raised me in the Church and to depend on God...

 

[Floatingaxe]

FloatingAxe,

You seem to chop and change what it is that scripture is trying to convey based on your own personal life. About masturbation, you said it doesn't need to be specifically mentioned in scripture, because it comes from a deeper meaning or some such. Now, God has issued instructions to mankind to fill the planet, we have fulfilled that instruction, two fold even, and you believe it's a solid command to everyone to keep reproducing.

You don't address any of the points I raised, you just single out small lines and then paste over your own interpretation which has no Biblical grounding.

Marriage in the Bible never talks about a command to bring children into the world. It simply says they are a reward from Him. To clarify, God chooses who to gift with children, OR we can choose to experience His gift of children.

It does, in absolutely no page of scripture, mention that we are commanded to have children when married.

Psalm 127:3
"Sons are a heritage from the Lord, children a reward from him."

They are a gift, and this is spoken of in the same light as sex being a gift for the married couple. Not a command, but a gift.

You are by far free to feel the way you do, yet it's not a command for all of us I'm afraid, and unless you can actually show in scripture where it gives us a command, not just an instruction to multiply and be fruitful, which we have already done. We are fruitful and that was important as people have pointed out because there were only a handful of humans left at those stages.

Digit

I think we ought to leave it to God to decide whether or not the earth is full enough, don't you? Can't you see the smugness in that attitude?

"Okay, God, we've filled the earth enough, so this generation we will slow down bringing children to you. We think that your plans must be completed now, so we will back off in that area. We know what you're doing so we'll take over from here, okay God?"

 

[Floatingaxe]

Please please tell me I didnt read what I thought I read further back...

Please tell me that I didnt read that Non Christians are not meant to have Children...
That only Christians should have Children...


Oh my!!

There are many non Christians who are wonderful parents...and many Christian parents who just dont have the patience...God doesnt choose who he's gonna bless one with parent hood to on their faith or religion background!!

Oh my is right. No, you are reading into things.

 

[Calliso]

If you doubt God for things, then you won't ever see His hand working to change things either.

People who love God and serve Him, would obviously be putting Him first, and allowing Him to be a partner in parenting. We never raise children alone without His help and wisdom.

I donlt doubt what God can do I just donlt see the reason he would give me that desire to have children. And yes we raise children with his help and wisdom..but we are still mostly on our own. A bad parent doesn;t become a good parent just because they pray alot.

 

[Floatingaxe]

It does seem to me that the Old Testament had more of an emphasis on childbearing than the New Testament does. I don't recall celibacy being mentioned as desirable in the OT. However, in the NT it is mentioned as desirable. The OT also seems to assume that everyone wants children. It was the only way for a woman to guarantee that she would be taken care of in her old age. In fact, it even seems to be the way a woman found her value, in many cases. I am not sure if something has happened in us, that has made us(as a culture, or even era) view children much differently, or if it is simply the fruit of the deemphasis on childbearing that the NT seems to indicate that has caused it. I suspect though, that it is primarily because we as a whole(myself included) tend to be much more pleasure driven, and in general, selfishly indulgent, than they seem to have been in the past.

I agree with you. I think that with this new dispensation of Grace, that there is a new emphasis on our living for God. We are encouraged, because of Christ now, to be outward-focused, and busy in the evangelization of the world, and so the new focus keeps us very busy!

That is a far different life focus than the family of Christ's day and prior.

I think it makes a difference, and with each successive generation since Christ, we see every so often, sharp and long-lasting changes in family life.

 

[united4Peace]

Oh my is right. No, you are reading into things.

Thankyou for clarifying that for me...

My apologies...

 

[Floatingaxe]

I donlt doubt what God can do I just donlt see the reason he would give me that desire to have children. And yes we raise children with his help and wisdom..but we are still mostly on our own. A bad parent doesn;t become a good parent just because they pray alot.

Through prayers of supplication and through consecration to God, we can all become excellent parents to the children God sees fit to give us.

We are NEVER on our own in that department!

 

[united4Peace]

Through prayers of supplication and through consecration to God, we can all become excellent parents to the children God sees fit to give us.

We are NEVER on our own in that department!

I need to rep you on the last part of that post...as that is one thing my mom taught me...that God is always there to help us...
She always said that she never raised us alone...that she raised us with God's help...

 

[Calliso]

Through prayers of supplication and through consecration to God, we can all become excellent parents to the children God sees fit to give us.

We are NEVER on our own in that department!

I agree we are never alone..I am just saying a bad parent wonlt become a great parent just because of God.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I agree we are never alone..I am just saying a bad parent wonlt become a great parent just because of God.

And why wouldn't they? I don't understand your statement there.

 

[Digit]

I think we ought to leave it to ?god to decide whether or not the earth is full enough, don't you? Can't you see the smugness in that attitude?

"Okay, God, we've filled the earth enough, so this generation we will slow down bringing children to you. We think that your plans must be completed now, so we will back off in that area. We know what you're doing so we'll take over from here, okay God?"

You are taking it to polar opposites again. The world is full of people, and some of us are still bringing new lives into the world, yet not all.

I said that the command was given to mankind, to all of us at two specific instances in our history, both of which when there was previous few (we are talking a handful of people) left. We have brains here, lets use them, why would God ask us to be fruitful and multiply when there was only a few of us left? I'm sure you can figure it out.

Some of us feel desire to fulfill it, and some of us do not. It was not an instruction to every individual person that must be followed. You are also skipping over the logic in that marriage in the Bible never talks of childbearing as an aspect of that marriage. It is handled totally separately. It's not a command or a rule or a requirement from God. It's a gift. Again, you skipped over that.

Digit

 

[Floatingaxe]

I need to rep you on the last part of that post...as that is one thing my mom taught me...that God is always there to help us...
She always said that she never raised us alone...that she raised us with God's help...

Thanks!

 

[Calliso]

And why wouldn't they? I don't understand your statement there.

Ok perhaps I should explain more. A bad parent may become an ok parent with God's help. Just as a good parent might become a great one. But taking a horrible parent *like I would be lol* you might get some improvement but God isn;t going to make most really bad parents into really good parents unless maybe he is desperate for them to be parents. And I donlt see why God would be desperate soo...

 

[Calliso]

You are taking it to polar opposites again. The world is full of people, and some of us are still bringing new lives into the world, yet not all.

I said that the command was given to mankind, to all of us at two specific instances in our history, both of which when there was previous few (we are talking a handful of people) left. We have brains here, lets use them, why would God ask us to be fruitful and multiply when there was only a few of us left? I'm sure you can figure it out.

Some of us feel desire to fulfill it, and some of us do not. It was not an instruction to every individual person that must be followed. You are also skipping over the logic in that marriage in the Bible never talks of childbearing as an aspect of that marriage. It is handled totally separately. It's not a command or a rule or a requirement from God. It's a gift. Again, you skipped over that.

Digit

Exactly!!

 

[Digit]

I will just add a disclaimer in here saying that neither my wife or I want children.

First from a logical point of view in that neither of us think we are mature enough to bring another life into the world. We also aren't financially sound and as much as we like children - which we do - we don't like them that much. I'm great around kids in small measures, and going from that to supporting one (or more) for years without any break is just a horrifying thought. So both practical and emotional reasons from our side.

Perhaps in time this may change, we all undergo many changes in our lives, so I would be foolish to rule that out, yet I know from the moment I could think rationally about relationships and children, I have always never wanted any, and my wife has also been recommended not to have children for medical reasons.

</disclaimer>

Just so people know where I am coming from.

Cheers,
Digit

 

[Floatingaxe]

You are taking it to polar opposites again. The world is full of people, and some of us are still bringing new lives into the world, yet not all.

I said that the command was given to mankind, to all of us at two specific instances in our history, both of which when there was previous few (we are talking a handful of people) left. We have brains here, lets use them, why would God ask us to be fruitful and multiply when there was only a few of us left? I'm sure you can figure it out.

Some of us feel desire to fulfill it, and some of us do not. It was not an instruction to every individual person that must be followed. You are also skipping over the logic in that marriage in the Bible never talks of childbearing as an aspect of that marriage. It is handled totally separately. It's not a command or a rule or a requirement from God. It's a gift. Again, you skipped over that.

Digit

I'm not skipping over anything.

What son or daughter of God doesn't want all of the Father's good gifts?

Psalm 127:3-5 Paraphrased...
Don't you see that children are God's best gift?
the fruit of the womb his generous legacy?
Like a warrior's fistful of arrows
are the children of a vigorous youth.
Oh, how blessed are you parents,
with your quivers full of children!
Your enemies don't stand a chance against you;
you'll sweep them right off your doorstep.

 

[Armistead]

I will just add a disclaimer in here saying that neither my wife or I want children.

First from a logical point of view in that neither of us think we are mature enough to bring another life into the world. We also aren't financially sound and as much as we like children - which we do - we don't like them that much. I'm great around kids in small measures, and going from that to supporting one (or more) for years without any break is just a horrifying thought. So both practical and emotional reasons from our side.

Perhaps in time this may change, we all undergo many changes in our lives, so I would be foolish to rule that out, yet I know from the moment I could think rationally about relationships and children, I have always never wanted any, and my wife has also been recommended not to have children for medical reasons.

</disclaimer>

Just so people know where I am coming from.

Cheers,
Digit

I understand. Medical issues are a big concern for many. My wife became pregant and has a blood disorder, she doesn't make or absorb iron. Has to get blood transfusions. She was also older when it happened, 35.
The Doctors said she would probably have organ damage and to abort. Well, we went to the clinic three times and backed out all three. She finally said if it killed her she would have it.

I have a healthy 10 year old. She did pay for it, but it worked out in time.

We agreed not to have any children and the birth control failed. Now my son is my life. I couldn't imagine life without him.

 

[Trashionista]

I'm not skipping over anything.

What son or daughter of God doesn't want all of the Father's good gifts?

Psalm 127:3-5 Paraphrased...
Don't you see that children are God's best gift?
the fruit of the womb his generous legacy?
Like a warrior's fistful of arrows
are the children of a vigorous youth.
Oh, how blessed are you parents,
with your quivers full of children!
Your enemies don't stand a chance against you;
you'll sweep them right off your doorstep.

Because not everyone has the desire to be a parent.

I know several people like that. Its not that uncommon. My goodness.