• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • Christian Forums is looking to bring on new moderators to the CF Staff Team! If you have been an active member of CF for at least three months with 200 posts during that time, you're eligible to apply! This is a great way to give back to CF and keep the forums running smoothly! If you're interested, you can submit your application here!

Seventh-day Adventist Church is Christian - not a cult

KevinT

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2021
813
414
57
Tennessee
✟54,639.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I am not sure who Ellen is but I think this forum is for those that agree with their beliefs. A place for Seventh-day Adventist who accept the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist Church
This wasn't @Diamond72 's point, but I want to add that I’m SDA and I’m not willing to simply to sign on to X number of beliefs just because someone says so. When I was in college, they came out with “27 Fundamental Beliefs”, and I didn’t like it then. Them then changing it to 28 didn’t make me feel any better.

KT
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

JesusFollowerForever

Disciple of Jesus
Jan 19, 2024
1,094
724
quebec
✟66,431.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Thanks. It's possible I was listening to an old video based on this (below), I'm not sure what happened to it and should have verified. Regardless if its enforced now or not, I know there is lots of talk about enforcing Sunday rest across the nations now. There is a tread coming on this soon with lots of videos etc.

Greece must introduce a six-day working week, or lose its bailout money, Greece’s creditors said, according to a letter leaked to the Guardian and published September 4. This demand means Greeks would have to work Saturday and rest on Sunday as they’re forced to conform to the teachings of the Catholic and Orthodox churches, regardless of their personal beliefs.
The Guardian reported that the letter “orders the government to extend the working week into the weekend.” It was sent last week to Greece’s finance and labor ministries. An excerpt from the letter published by the Guardian called on the government to “increase the number of maximum workdays to six days per week for all sectors.”
The letter is from the “troika”—Greece’s three main creditors who oversee its bailout program: the European Commission, the European Central Bank and the International Monetary Fund. They also called for Greece to take several other steps to make working hours more flexible and to cut labor market regulation.
Their demand for a six-day week would mean that workers would be pushed to work on Saturday, not Sunday. Greek law already forbids working on Sunday. It states: “Employees are entitled to a minimum continuous period of rest of at least 24 hours per week, including Sunday as a rule, depending on the labor law provisions in force for each category of employees,” according to the European Commission’s website (emphasis added throughout).
If the working week is extended to six days, this law will almost certainly remain in force. Employers could soon be demanding a six-day week from most Greek workers. If someone tries to stick to his religious principles by working on Sunday and resting on Saturday, it would be illegal.
Catholic bishops have been working to introduce similar laws across the EU, robbing Europe’s citizens of the choice of which day they rest. They have tried several times to change Europe’s Working Time Directive, which says that all European workers must have at least one rest day a week, to say that all EU workers must take that rest day on Sunday.
They continued this push in July, when European religious leaders held their annual meeting with the presidents of EU institutions. Monsignor Gianni Ambrosio, vice president of the Commission of the Bishops’ Conferences of the European Community, called for the EU mandated Sunday worship to encourage stable families and help combat Europe’s demographic crisis. “Especially for the family, for the spiritual life of its members and for human relations, both inside the family and with relatives and friends, the common Sunday rest is of fundamental importance,” he said.
In March, the Catholic Church and trade unions across Europe joined up in what the church called a “holy alliance” to call for governments to enforce Sunday observance.
Herbert W. Armstrong warned for years that a European power would enforce Sunday worship. Anyone that refused “would not be able to earn a living, to earn a wage or salary, or to engage himself in business,” he wrote.
That is exactly what is happening in Greece!
The Bible is full of proof that Christ and the early Church kept the Sabbath on Saturday, not Sunday. But if you live in Greece and want to follow Christ’s example—refusing Sunday observance and keeping Saturday—you could soon be out of a job! This is exactly what the Bible prophesied.
We don’t know, yet, if Greece will submit to this six-day week. It may be able to negotiate a way out of it. It could quit the euro. Or it may be thrown out. But the economic crisis will get worse. And now we know that the EU sees the six-day week as a solution.
The Bible prophesies that Europe will rise from the crisis as the global economic superpower. Perhaps one of the ways it will do this is by introducing a six-day workweek across the Continent.
This enforced Sunday observance won’t end with Greece. Watch this trend very closely. The Bible clearly reveals that Sunday observance is in fact the mark of the beast, as prophesied in Revelation.
For more information on this vital subject, read our free booklets Who or What Is the Prophetic Beast? and Which Day Is the Christian Sabbath?
Yes the sabbath is most important it is a sign between God and the believers who do His will. People just do not get it, the Lord did not say pick a day and rest, he said very specifically the last day of the week, Saturday as it corresponds to God's rest after the creation, I hope people will get it one day. Anyways none in paradise will have a choice and will abide by the commandments witch are eternal, because they love God and Obey his voice.

Blessings

Blessings
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
12,502
5,276
USA
✟661,896.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Yes the sabbath is most important it is a sign between God and the believers who do His will. People just do not get it, the Lord did not say pick a day and rest, he said very specifically the last day of the week, Saturday as it corresponds to God's rest after the creation, I hope people will get it one day. Anyways none in paradise will have a choice and will abide by the commandments witch are eternal, because they love God and Obey his voice.

Blessings

Blessings
It’s really comes down to who is our authority. God or man. I believe the Sabbath is one of our tests, just like Adam and Eve had a test in the garden. It was never about a tree, just like the Sabbath is more than just a day. It’s about who do we serve. Rom 6:16 God based on His Authority or man deceived by the other spirit who changed God’s times and laws that most follow Dan 7:25. It’s why in the end keeping the Sabbath (His version Exo 20:8-11) is a sign that we choose God. Eze 20:20. Not saying we are saved by keeping the law- we are saved by grace through faith, but those with faith choose God and abide in Him 1 John 2:3-6.

God bless!
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

JesusFollowerForever

Disciple of Jesus
Jan 19, 2024
1,094
724
quebec
✟66,431.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
It’s really comes down to who is our authority. God or man. I beleive the Sabbath is our test, just like Adam and Eve had a test in the garden. It was never about a tree, just like the Sabbath is more than just a day. It’s about who do we serve. God based on His Authority or man deceived by the other spirit who changed God’s times and laws that most follow Dan 7:25. It’s why in the end keeping the Sabbath (His version Exo 20:8-11) is a sign that we choose God. Eze 20:20. Not saying we are saved by keeping the law- we are saved by grace through faith, but those with faith choose God and abide in Him 1 John 2:3-6.

God bless!
Yes the sabbath is one or our tests, certainly the main one. God wants to see who love him enough to do his will and follow his directions. Another test is to discern correctly His will, Our thoughts must align perfectly with His will as much as possible, we must do our best in these difficult end times.

Blessings
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
12,502
5,276
USA
✟661,896.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Yes the sabbath is one or our tests, certainly the main one. God wants to see who love him enough to do his will and follow his directions. Another test is to discern correctly His will, Our thoughts must align perfectly with His will as much as possible, we must do our best in these difficult end times.

Blessings
Amen brother, I agree it’s not just the Sabbath, it’s all of God’s will. Bless you for seeing the Truth to God’s Word. I pray more people find His Truth. There is not a lot of definitions in scripture for God’s Truth- Jesus is Truth John 14:6, His Word is Truth John 17:17 All of His commandments are Truth Psa 119:151. We need all of God’s Truth. :heartpulse:
 
Upvote 0

Diamond72

Dispensationalist 72
Nov 23, 2022
8,307
1,521
73
Akron
✟57,931.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
People just do not get it, the Lord did not say pick a day and rest, he said very specifically the last day of the week
Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year, is observed on the first two days of the Hebrew month of Tishrei. In 2024, it begins at sundown on Wednesday, October 2, and continues through nightfall on Friday, October 412.

The "Jewish" calendar is lunisolar, meaning it takes into account both the moon’s phases and the solar year. The first day of the Jewish year, Rosh Hashanah, is determined based on the Hebrew month of Tishrei. Here’s a brief overview of how it works:

  1. Lunar Months: The Jewish calendar months are based on the lunar cycle, with each month beginning at the new moon. A typical lunar month is about 29.5 days long1.
  2. Leap Years: To keep the lunar calendar in sync with the solar year, an extra month (Adar II) is added approximately every three years. This ensures that holidays remain in their appropriate seasons1.
  3. Mathematical Rules: The current Hebrew calendar uses a fixed set of mathematical rules to determine the start of each month and the occurrence of leap years. This system was established to replace the earlier method of physical moon sightings1.
  4. Rosh Hashanah: The Jewish New Year, Rosh Hashanah, is observed on the first day of Tishrei, which is the seventh month in the Hebrew calendar. This day marks the anniversary of the creation of Adam and Eve2.
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
12,502
5,276
USA
✟661,896.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
God created the weekly cycle work six days, rest the seventh day Gen 2:1-3 and regardless of which calendar one is using, it never changes the weekly cycle. God is so good, He would always preserve a way so we can obey Him. Saturday will always be the Sabbath, its why almost all ancient languages Saturday translates into Sabbath.

 
Upvote 0

Diamond72

Dispensationalist 72
Nov 23, 2022
8,307
1,521
73
Akron
✟57,931.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
regardless of which calendar one is using, it never changes the weekly cycle.
So the days are never going to line up.

"Jewish" people use both the "Jewish" (Hebrew) calendar and the Gregorian calendar, depending on the context:

  1. "Jewish" Calendar: This lunisolar calendar is primarily used for religious observances and rituals. It determines the dates of Jewish holidays, such as Passover, Rosh Hashanah, and Yom Kippur1. In Israel, the "Jewish" calendar is also used for agricultural and some civil purposes1.
  2. Gregorian Calendar: This solar calendar is used for everyday civil purposes, such as work, school, and international interactions. Most "Jewish" people, especially those living outside Israel, use the Gregorian calendar for their daily activities12.
So, "Jewish" people navigate between both calendars, using each one as appropriate for different aspects of their lives.
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
12,502
5,276
USA
✟661,896.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
So the days are never going to line up.

"Jewish" people use both the "Jewish" (Hebrew) calendar and the Gregorian calendar, depending on the context:

  1. "Jewish" Calendar: This lunisolar calendar is primarily used for religious observances and rituals. It determines the dates of Jewish holidays, such as Passover, Rosh Hashanah, and Yom Kippur1. In Israel, the "Jewish" calendar is also used for agricultural and some civil purposes1.
  2. Gregorian Calendar: This solar calendar is used for everyday civil purposes, such as work, school, and international interactions. Most "Jewish" people, especially those living outside Israel, use the Gregorian calendar for their daily activities12.
So, "Jewish" people navigate between both calendars, using each one as appropriate for different aspects of their lives.
Still doesn’t change day 1, day 2, day 3, day 4, day 5, day 6, day 7, the Sabbath. We might dispute when the day starts, Sabbath-keepers will always keep the Sabbath starting in the evenings, but others will start their day at mid-night. If one wants to obey God, they will find a way to do so. It’s not as hard as people think keeping God’s Sabbath, God doesn’t make us do it alone either and He gave us His Sabbath because He knows what’s best for us so He can bless and sanctify us, sadly so many people don’t even understand what they are missing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BobRyan
Upvote 0

Diamond72

Dispensationalist 72
Nov 23, 2022
8,307
1,521
73
Akron
✟57,931.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
Still doesn’t change day 1, day 2, day 3, day 4, day 5, day 6, day 7, the Sabbath
Ok, so 7th day Adventists and "Jewish" people can observe a different day as long as it is the seventh day of their week.

"On the first day of the week, we gathered with the local believers to share in the Lord’s Supper. Paul was preaching to them, and since he was leaving the next day, he kept talking until midnight". (Acts 20:7,

"In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike. You should each be fully convinced that whichever day you choose is acceptable. Those who worship the Lord on a special day do it to honor him". (Romans 14:5–6, NLT)
 
Upvote 0

SabbathBlessings

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 12, 2020
12,502
5,276
USA
✟661,896.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Ok, so 7th day Adventists and "Jewish" people can observe a different day as long as it is the seventh day of their week.

On the first day of the week, we gathered with the local believers to share in the Lord’s Supper. Paul was preaching to them, and since he was leaving the next day, he kept talking until midnight. (Acts 20:7,
There is only one Sabbath- starts Friday evening to Saturday evening Lev 23:32, the same one the Jews in the Bible observed, the same one the apostles observed Acts 18:4, the same one His faithful followers observed Luke 23:56, the same one Jesus observed Luke 4:16, the same one God observed. Gen 2:1-3 Exo 20:11

It’s never a good idea to use a bible translation that adds to God’s Word. The “Lords Supper” is not part of the original transcript and this verse says they had a meal on the first day, which they did daily. Acts 2:46. Days starts in evenings in the scripture this was a Saturday evening meeting which is the beginning of day 1. It does not say day 1 is now a new Sabbath, a new day of worship or a new commandment that supersedes God’s 4th commandment. Those would be important things to have in a text to make a change to something God personally commanded and wrote with His own finger on His Authority. At least for me.

Before we get too deep in this discussion, this forum is not a forum to debate the Sabbath- there is the Sabbath and law forum where you can debate it. You might want to debate the Sabbath there.

Thanks. :)
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
52,882
11,685
Georgia
✟1,061,335.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
The only reason I bring this up is that it is a church with no denomination or counsel of elders. It was one man's vision of all interpretations of scripture. That is a warning sign to me. When there is no counsel, no board of directors, but one man's vision. I think a situation like that breeds the cult mentality.
good point.

But the SDA church has no statement saying that our doctrines come from Ellen White or that she dictates what we are to believe. Rather as she herself says --- this whole thing has to stand or fall "sola scriptura". Anyone claiming to speak for God has to be tested sola-scriptura. And the denomination itself votes on the result. In fact we meet for just that - every 5 years.

I'm reminded of Jim Jones who went way off ancient theology and got his church to follow HIM more than God.

yep - that would be a huge problem.

To make a long story longer, they is what we need councils and people who will test teachings by the scripture rather than follow one man's dream.

yep. That is why we have exec council meetings on years outside of the every-5-year quinquinium meeting of representative world wide.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
52,882
11,685
Georgia
✟1,061,335.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Ok, so 7th day Adventists and "Jewish" people can observe a different day as long as it is the seventh day of their week.
I am not aware of Adventists and Jews thinking that a "different day of the week" is the seventh day -- they appear to both say that Saturday is the seventh day of the week.

And a whole lot of other Christians also agree that Sunday "is the first day of the week" - the day Jesus was resurrected.

So if you step back and look at it -- when it comes to days of the week - they all seem to agree.
"On the first day of the week, we gathered with the local believers to share in the Lord’s Supper. Paul was preaching to them, and since he was leaving the next day, he kept talking until midnight". (Acts 20:7,
I think we all agree that - that first day of the week - was Sunday in Acts 20.

And in Acts 18:4 Paul "preached every Sabbath" in the Synagogues to both gentiles and Jews.

I think we all agree that preaching the Gospel "every Sabbath" in a worship service in the Synagogue - is every different from - a single meeting in Acts 20 "on Sunday" called "week day 1" rather than "The Lord's day".
"In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike.
Rom 14 says one man observes one day above another while another man observes every day ..

That is not talking about the weekly - Sabbath but rather about the annual Holy days of Lev 23.

Notice that in Gal 4 Paul condemns even one observance of a pagan holy day.
And in 2 Thess 3 Paul condemns keeping every day of the year as a holy day exempt from secular labor

2 Thess 3:10 For even when we were with you, we used to give you this order: if anyone is not willing to work, then he is not to eat, either.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
52,882
11,685
Georgia
✟1,061,335.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
So if I go to church on Sunday, is that taking the Mark on my right hand, or taking the Mark on my forehead?
Neither.

Rev 13 - predicts a future scenario AFTER the antichrist/fake-second-coming event mentioned in Matt 24 , happens.
Nobody has the mark of the beast
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
52,882
11,685
Georgia
✟1,061,335.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Going to church on Sunday is a common practice for many Christians and is not associated with the “Mark of the Beast.” The idea of the mark is generally interpreted as a symbolic representation of loyalty to a particular power or system, rather than a specific action like attending church.
True - it is not about "attending church" on Tuesday, Wednesday etc. Or any other day of the week.

Adventists do that every week.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
52,882
11,685
Georgia
✟1,061,335.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
This wasn't @Diamond72 's point, but I want to add that I’m SDA and I’m not willing to simply to sign on to X number of beliefs just because someone says so. When I was in college, they came out with “27 Fundamental Beliefs”, and I didn’t like it then. Them then changing it to 28 didn’t make me feel any better.

KT
That total number changed several times in the 1800's and then again in the 1900's.

What they did not do - is declare any of them to be wrong.

They simply added more detail for some doctrines, and added other ones as the need to take a stand on a given issue that everyone agreed on - happened to come up.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KevinT
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
52,882
11,685
Georgia
✟1,061,335.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
So the days are never going to line up.
True but that only means that Friday starts at Midnight on Thursday evening in one calendar and it starts at sunset on Thursday evening in another Calendar.

That does not cause Jews or Christians who keep the Bible Sabbath - to get confused about what sunset is or what midnight is.
"Jewish" people use both the "Jewish" (Hebrew) calendar and the Gregorian calendar, depending on the context:

  1. "Jewish" Calendar: This lunisolar calendar is primarily used for religious observances and rituals. It determines the dates of Jewish holidays, such as Passover, Rosh Hashanah, and Yom Kippur1. In Israel, the "Jewish" calendar is also used for agricultural and some civil purposes1.
  2. Gregorian Calendar: This solar calendar is used for everyday civil purposes, such as work, school, and international interactions. Most "Jewish" people, especially those living outside Israel, use the Gregorian calendar for their daily activities12.
So, "Jewish" people navigate between both calendars, using each one as appropriate for different aspects of their lives.
True.

But the 7 days of the week remains the same.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
52,882
11,685
Georgia
✟1,061,335.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Yes, Greece has gotten itself into financial trouble and its creditors want them all working like busy bees to hurry up and pay them back. And it is possible that they will institute a mandatory 6 day work week, which includes working on Saturday. All these things are possible. But there is a big difference between an interest group pushing for something and it being finalized into law.

We know that as time rolls on that conditions on the earth will worsen. God's angels are holding back the winds of strife until they are finally told by God that it is time to stop. We should also do our part to keep our world working well. So I agree that it is good to emphasize that people should be given religious freedom to worship as they believe.
agreed.

Adventist eschatology makes a certain prediction about the future - but we all agree that the events predicted have not happened yet.

Someone else could come along and say "I predict that event will never happen". Which is fine. At the 2nd coming of Christ we will see if it did or did not happen.

As for the topic of this thread -- making a prediction about a future event does not make a group a cult. Even if they are wrong and the event never happens - simply being wrong about a prediction does not make any group a cult.

If someone were to say that they predict that some day a law will be passed that everyone must wear red tennis shoes - and that event never happens - it still does not make them a member of a cult.
 
Upvote 0

JesusFollowerForever

Disciple of Jesus
Jan 19, 2024
1,094
724
quebec
✟66,431.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Rosh Hashanah, the Jewish New Year, is observed on the first two days of the Hebrew month of Tishrei. In 2024, it begins at sundown on Wednesday, October 2, and continues through nightfall on Friday, October 412.

The "Jewish" calendar is lunisolar, meaning it takes into account both the moon’s phases and the solar year. The first day of the Jewish year, Rosh Hashanah, is determined based on the Hebrew month of Tishrei. Here’s a brief overview of how it works:

  1. Lunar Months: The Jewish calendar months are based on the lunar cycle, with each month beginning at the new moon. A typical lunar month is about 29.5 days long1.
  2. Leap Years: To keep the lunar calendar in sync with the solar year, an extra month (Adar II) is added approximately every three years. This ensures that holidays remain in their appropriate seasons1.
  3. Mathematical Rules: The current Hebrew calendar uses a fixed set of mathematical rules to determine the start of each month and the occurrence of leap years. This system was established to replace the earlier method of physical moon sightings1.
  4. Rosh Hashanah: The Jewish New Year, Rosh Hashanah, is observed on the first day of Tishrei, which is the seventh month in the Hebrew calendar. This day marks the anniversary of the creation of Adam and Eve2.
From What I have heard, the Jewish orthodox people that I knew a few years back in Montreal, followed the Gregorian Saturday sabbath from sunset Friday to sunset Saturday but did use the Jewish lunisolar calendar for observance of other religious days. I never understood why but this is what I know.

Thanks for the links.
 
Upvote 0

KevinT

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2021
813
414
57
Tennessee
✟54,639.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Ok, so 7th day Adventists and "Jewish" people can observe a different day as long as it is the seventh day of their week.
I thought you were going to bring up the times when the international date line has been moved, and suddenly an island nation had its days changed. So what used to be Saturday was now called Sunday. So the Adventist people had to decide whether to keep worshiping on the old 7th day (but now 1st day), or to change to the new Saturday.

:)

KT
 
Upvote 0