Seventh-Day Adventist Beliefs? are they absolute?

RC_NewProtestants · Feb 3, 2008

It is not a Bible study forum which is why it is only used by a few people, (who happen to be moderators). Notice the rules:

5.4 Bible studies can deal with any subject that is in harmony with Scripture. However, no studies may be started that are in disagreement with any one of the 28 fundamental beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist church, nor should anything that is contrary to any of those beliefs be inculcated within a Bible study. If one wishes to take exception to any of the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of the SDA church they should post in the Debate/Discussion sub-forum.

5.5 Debating will NOT be permitted here.

http://christianforums.com/t6189309-guidelines-for-the-adventist-bible-study-sub-forum.html

So in other words it is a forum where you can say nothing that disagrees with what is presented. So it is not a study at all but merely an indoctrination forum.

thecountrydoc · Feb 4, 2008

Hello to all who may read this thread.

From the following posts it would seem that the posters have not read the New Adventist/Bible Study sub-forum nor read this complete thread.

Since the questions and topics brought up in this thread will undoubtedly raise debate, and the New Adventist/Bible Study sub-forum is intended to be a "safe haven" for those not completely familar with Scripture and SDA doctrines, with no "debate" allowed, I have posted previously in this thread a format which will allow for questions to be ask in safety, and yet allow all who may read the restricted forums, and sub-forums, to respond.

Please read the following in context.

Question to Doc by JonMiller:

"Does anyone besides you and reddog take part in the Bible Study forum?"

To answer your question Jon, yes there are many who have chosen to use the SS LESSON DAILY STUDY GUIDES as well as to read the posted studies. Some have made response in the sub-forum and others have chosen to use PMs.

Response by RC_NP:

"It is not a Bible study forum which is why it is only used by a few people, (who happen to be moderators)".

Click to expand...

Notice the rules:

Click to expand...

5.4 Bible studies can deal with any subject that is in harmony with Scripture. However, no studies may be started that are in disagreement with any one of the 28 fundamental beliefs of the Seventh-day Adventist church, nor should anything that is contrary to any of those beliefs be inculcated within a Bible study. If one wishes to take exception to any of the 28 Fundamental Beliefs of the SDA church they should post in the Debate/Discussion sub-forum.
5.5 Debating will NOT be permitted here.

http://christianforums.com/t6189309-...sub-forum.html

"So in other words it is a forum where you can say nothing that disagrees with what is presented. So it is not a study at all but merely an indoctrination forum."

Click to expand...

Obviously all the post in this sub-forum have not been read.

The following is a format that will allow anyone who may read in a nondebate area, such as the Main SDA Forum or the New Adventist/Bible Study Sub-Forum and wishes to participate by debate, may still participate by bringing their comments or questions here to the D&D Sub-forum.

Previously posted in this thread:
Hello once again,

The first of the answers to Dania's questions can now be read in the SDA Main Forum in the thread titled:
Quote:

"Seventh-Day Adventist Beliefs? Are They Absolute?"

If you wish to ask questions or make comments you may post them here in the D&D sub-forum.

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc
______________________________________________________

HERE's the PLAN!!!

Hi Dania,

As I suggested before, you may not want to post questions here in the Discussion and Debate sub-forum because of the possiblity of getting conflicting or confusing answers. I havealso suggested to others that there is a need to cover any given topic in depth without interuption. You are not the only one who has posed questions that really can't beanswered with just a short reply.

Since we want to give you the best possible, complete answers, I will start a thread in the main SDA Forum, where no debate is allowed, and answer your questions without interuption even if it takes several post. You may always ask for clarification on any thing posted or you may ask additional questions either here in the Discussion/Debate sub forum or in the New Adventist/Bible Study sub-forum.

Please feel free to post, or PM me, if you have questions how this plan will work.

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc
______________________________________________________

This plan/format is now in place. It will allow for a complete response to the original poster without interuption preserving the continuity and context of the answer given.

In the future please don't complain that no one is allowed disent or the questioning of any post made, on any topic, which is allowed in restricted areas. You will simply need to bring such responses to the appropriate forum which is the Discussion & Debate sub-forum.

Respectfully,
Doc

digdeep · Feb 4, 2008

Sophia7 said:
Dania, I'm quoting a few texts for you to consider. I think as you continue reading the Bible, you will be better able to understand how things fit together in context.
Romans 8:9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

_____________________________________________________

1 Corinthians 12:12 The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. 13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

_____________________________________________________

2 Corinthians 1:21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.

_____________________________________________________

2 Corinthians 3:1 Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you? 2 You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everybody. 3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

2CO 3:4 Such confidence as this is ours through Christ before God. 5 Not that we are competent in ourselves to claim anything for ourselves, but our competence comes from God. 6 He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant--not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

2CO 3:7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

2CO 3:12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

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Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory.

_____________________________________________________

Titus 3:3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

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1 John 3:21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

digdeep · Feb 4, 2008

Sophia7 said:
The Bible gives instructions for orderly worship, which some churches don't follow:
1 Corinthians 14:1 Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. 2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. 3 But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. 4 He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.

1CO 14:6 Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? 7 Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8 Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9 So it is with you. Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10 Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11 If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. 12 So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church.

1CO 14:13 For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. 14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15 So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. 16 If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? 17 You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified.

1CO 14:18 I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19 But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue.

1CO 14:20 Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults. 21 In the Law it is written:

"Through men of strange tongues

and through the lips of foreigners

I will speak to this people,

but even then they will not listen to me,"

says the Lord.

1CO 14:22 Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. 23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24 But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, 25 and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!"

1CO 14:26 What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27 If anyone speaks in a tongue, two--or at the most three--should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28 If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.

1CO 14:29 Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30 And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31 For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32 The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33 For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.

As in all the congregations of the saints, 34 women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

1CO 14:36 Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37 If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command. 38 If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.

1CO 14:39 Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40 But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.

RC_NewProtestants · Feb 4, 2008

thecountrydoc said:
This plan/format is now in place. It will allow for a complete response to the original poster without interuption preserving the continuity and context of the answer given.

In the future please don't complain that no one is allowed disent or the questioning of any post made, on any topic, which is allowed in restricted areas. You will simply need to bring such responses to the appropriate forum which is the Discussion & Debate sub-forum.

Respectfully,
Doc

That was not really a complaint as it was a fact. Bible study is not merely asking someone who thinks they know all the answers questions. The problem of course is that people can't dissent where the actual statements are made they have to go to some other forum, of course then they have to link and or copy what they are talking about in the open forum which in the end just makes things more confusing but that was what the majority voted for here.

moicherie · Feb 7, 2008

"how is it that seventh day adventist wear nails and make up. even hair pieces etc and fashionable things but not jewelry"

You may find that this is cultural, for some reason the Advent pioneers along with other American Christian founded denominations in the 19th century came up with the doctrine that jewelry and make up was a bad thing. However the Pentacostal churchs more or less dropped this teaching over time, you will find tho that 'black' churches tended to stick with the traditions but are not so rigid now. However generally speaking black Carribbean Adventist churchs tend to be more strict with the no makeup rule whilst white Adventist churches are not. In the U.K this attitude is changing. In America generally tends to be more anti jewelry especially anti wedding ring but I understand this depends on where you are. Its totally confusing for as the church reached outside the Western world and came across non Eurocentric cultures you will find jewelry and make up is not an issue i.e the members use and wear it. Give it another 50 years or so and our kids will wondering what all the fuss was about. The anti jewelry and make up stand is not biblical, the issue is modesty in appearance but this is an example where the church takes one element of a text and ignores the cultural context. Something we like to accuse other churches of doing.

thecountrydoc · Feb 7, 2008

Hi Moicherie,

In your post you said:

"The anti jewelry and make up stand is not biblical, the issue is modesty in appearance but this is an example where the church takes one element of a text and ignores the cultural context. Something we like to accuse other churches of doing."

Click to expand...

You have offered your opinion on this matter but it is clear that you may have missed the biblical principals involved. May I suggest that you read my response to this poster's question in the main SDA forum. I do not make any judgement of those who chose to ignore the biblical principals involved but the logic seems quite clear.

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc.

thecountrydoc · Feb 7, 2008

Previously posted in this thread:
Hello once again,

The second of the answers to Dania's questions can now be read in the SDA Main Forum in the thread titled:
Quote:

CONTINUATION of ANSWERS to: "Seventh-Day Adventist Beliefs? Are They Absolute?"

If you wish to ask questions or make comments you may post them here in the D&D sub-forum.

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc
______________________________________________________

HERE's the PLAN!!!

Hi Dania,

As I suggested before, you may not want to post questions here in the Discussion and Debate sub-forum because of the possiblity of getting conflicting or confusing answers. I havealso suggested to others that there is a need to cover any given topic in depth without interuption. You are not the only one who has posed questions that really can't beanswered with just a short reply.

Since we want to give you the best possible, complete answers, I will start a thread in the main SDA Forum, where no debate is allowed, and answer your questions without interuption even if it takes several post. You may always ask for clarification on anything posted or you may ask additional questions either here in the Discussion/Debate sub-forum or in the New Adventist/Bible Study sub-forum.

Please feel free to post, or PM me, if you have questions how this plan will work.

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc
______________________________________________________

RC_NewProtestants · Feb 7, 2008

Doc please remove your thread from the SDA Main Forum. CONTINUATION of ANSWERS to: SDA Beliefs? Are they absolute? from D&D sub-forum Posting of Doug Bachelor is not in harmony with the rules of that forum. His book is not the official position of the SDA church and his book does not meet the criteria of an official statement of the SDA church.

1. Main SDA Forum (Effective September 17, 2007)

1.1 This is a non-debate area, reserved for fellowship and questions. Questions on doctrines and beliefs can be asked in the Main SDA Forum. Questions that are likely to lead to debate should be asked in the Debate/Discussion Sub-forum.

1.2 To avoid confusion and debate, questions posed in the Main SDA Forum will generally be directed to official church statements such as the Fundamental Beliefs. This is to provide clear and consistent answers to questions without provoking debate.

You are misusing you authority as a moderator by both opening that thread and locking it. I will give you the rest of today to correct the action you took and then I will take my request to the other moderators.

Loveaboveall · Feb 7, 2008

RC_NewProtestants said:
Doc please remove your thread from the SDA Main Forum. CONTINUATION of ANSWERS to: SDA Beliefs? Are they absolute? from D&D sub-forum Posting of Doug Bachelor is not in harmony with the rules of that forum. His book is not the official position of the SDA church and his book does not meet the criteria of an official statement of the SDA church.

You are misusing you authority as a moderator by both opening that thread and locking it. I will give you the rest of today to correct the action you took and then I will take my request to the other moderators.

You might have a better case if you can show where Doug Batchelors words used conflict with any of the fundamental beliefs... I imagine you would have to really do some twisting of words to pull this off! Ellen White's books are not official statements should she not be quoted either?

It seems these "games" are getting utterly ridiculous

thecountrydoc · Feb 7, 2008

Sorry NP, but you have missed the reason why it has been done in this manor.

First: The original post with questions ask was made by a new Christian who is also a new Seventh-day Adventist. This format allows for singular answers that will not be in conflict with SDA church doctrine and therefore will not cause confusion for the newcomer by giving conflicting answers.

Second: Any Seventh-day Adventist may give answers as long as those answers are not in conflict with the Bible or Church Doctrine.

Third: Even those who do not agree with SDA doctrin have suggested that D&D was not the best place for a new Christian/ New SDA to ask questions.

Fourth: In order to give a complete answer without interuption, and to preserve the context of the answer given, this format is the only way possible to achieve these results.

Fifth: A response made by a SDA Pastor, which is in harmony with Scripture and the doctrines of the SDA Church, should made available to all who may come to the SDA Forum, both SDA members and nonSDAs, but do not wish to particapate in the advesarial atomosphere of the D&D sub-forum.

Six: There is no requirement that all responses to questions ask be answered exclusively from Official SDA Church Statements. The only requirement is that said answers may not be in conflict with said statements and teachings.

Now I must ask these questions; Why do you feel the need to put potential stumbling blocks in the path of a new Seventh-day Adventist? If that is not your intention, then why do you not accept the 28 Fundimental Beliefs which would allow you access to the sites which are restricted to those who accept the 28 Fundimental Beliefs and are allowed to post answers to questions about SDA beliefs in the main SDA Forum?

Respectfully,
Doc

PS: In regards to your intended actions, this entire question has already been settled.

RC_NewProtestants · Feb 7, 2008

I did not make the rules. It is not up to me to show that Batchelor is official SDA teaching. Nor is it up to you to decide that. It is simply official or not. This is not a game but it does not mean that some are allowed to violate the rules. Batchelor book is put out by an independent ministry it is not even published by the Adventist church.

RC_NewProtestants · Feb 7, 2008

Let us take for example Batchelor on the Wedding Ring:

Wedding Rings

At this point someone might be wondering, "What about a wedding ring?"

Very simply, support for the wedding ring cannot be found anywhere in Scripture. The Bible doesn't say that some rings can be worn and that others shouldn't. It simply includes rings in a long list of jewelry and ornamental clothing.

The wearing of wedding rings is strictly a tradition that springs from paganism and has since been embraced and "baptized" by many churches. Cardinal John Henry Newman points out that the wedding ring, along with many other pagan customs, infiltrated Christianity through the compromising influence of his church. "The use of temples, and these dedicated to particular saints, and ornamented on occasions with branches of trees; incense, lamps, candles; votive offerings on recovery from illness; holy water; asylums; holy days and seasons, use of calendars, processions, blessings on the fields; sacerdotal vestments, the tonsure, the ring in marriage, turning to the east, images at a later date ... are all of pagan origin, and sanctified by their adoption into the Church." 1

Of course, today we have found the wedding ring to be a deeply ingrained tradition. But if sincere seekers of God's will study this topic and are convicted to remove all jewelry, God will give them the grace to follow Him above tradition. "And he [Jesus] said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition." Mark 7:9.

Now see what the SDA church Manual says on page 177 (2005 edition):

In some countries the custom of wearing the wedding ring is considered imperative, having become, in the minds of the people, a criterion of virtue, and hence it is not regarded as an ornament. Under such circumstances we have no disposition to condemn the practice.

This has been the position of the SDA church for a while From a Adventist news release:

"However, one clause in the NAD statement differed from the actions in 1972-and that difference sparked over two dozen speeches, remarks, and declarations.
The clause states: "Some church members feel that the use of a simple marriage band is a symbol of faithfulness to the marriage vow, and such persons should be fully accepted in the fellowship and service of the church."
NAD delegates approved the document by a substantial majority after a three-hour debate."...

"The wedding band has never been an issue outside of North America. People were wearing it all around the world-even back in 1892 when Ellen G. White wrote on it," Bradford explained. "It was never an issue in England, France, Italy, and Australia. They [members outside North America] have been always persuaded that the wedding band was a symbol of their marriage commitment."
http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/weddingband.htm

Judging my Doc's response I think he needs remedial training or to be removed as moderator. He is using the forum for his personal views and closing threads to only himself, not as announcements but as if his postings represent official SDA positions.

Dania · Feb 8, 2008

sigh... ere we go again. arguing... makes no sense argue! anyway!!! i found the read interesting. thanks for all your comments:

so the wedding ring.. make up... other jewelry...
okay. so what about fashion? how about hair.. can u perm it.. are u allowed to lock it? are we allowed to use perfume??? how about the music and entertainment that we listen to??? can we watch movies and stuff with cursing in it? what are the rules for this. there are many and i wanna know

thecountrydoc · Feb 8, 2008

Hi Dania,

I'm truly sorry that there is such disention here in the Discussion & Debate sub-forum. Perhapse now you understand why I, as well as others, suggested that this forum was perhaps not the best place for a new Christian and a new Adventist to get answers to their questions.

Please note that what I have posted is based on Christian principals not on any "thus saith the Lord" commands. While the principals have been laid out quite well, you will also notice that there has been no ridicule, or condimnation, made of those who may choose to disagree. Unfortunately, disagreement has become a way of life here in this forum. I hope that you also understand that, eventhough there has been doubt cast on what Pastor Doug Batchelor has writen, he is a well accepted speaker and teacher of SDA doctrine.

As for your other questions I will do as promised and cover them in the order you have listed them. I find it most regretable that all of your questions were not answered at the time you decided to become a Seventh-day Advintist, however since they were not covered for you, I ask that you be patient with me and I will do my best to give you complete answers. If you feel convicted by the Holy Spirit that what is presented is true then it is up to you and the Lord whether or not you choose to follow what is said.

Please know that you are welcome to PM me at any time if you have additional questions or concerns.

Respectfully, your friend and brother in Christ,
Doc

Dania · Feb 8, 2008

thecountrydoc said:
Hi Dania,

I'm truly sorry that there is such disention here in the Discussion & Debate sub-forum. Perhapse now you understand why I, as well as others, suggested that this forum was perhaps not the best place for a new Christian and a new Adventist to get answers to their questions.

Please note that what I have posted is based on Christian principals not on any "thus saith the Lord" commands. While the principals have been laid out quite well, you will also notice that there has been no ridicule, or condimnation, made of those who may choose to disagree. Unfortunately, disagreement has become a way of life here in this forum. I hope that you also understand that, eventhough there has been doubt cast on what Pastor Doug Batchelor has writen, he is a well accepted speaker and teacher of SDA doctrine.

As for your other questions I will do as promised and cover them in the order you have listed them. I find it most regretable that all of your questions were not answered at the time you decided to become a Seventh-day Advintist, however since they were not covered for you, I ask that you be patient with me and I will do my best to give you complete answers. If you feel convicted by the Holy Spirit that what is presented is true then it is up to you and the Lord whether or not you choose to follow what is said.

Please know that you are welcome to PM me at any time if you have additional questions or concerns.

Respectfully, your friend and brother in Christ,
Doc

thank u! i do understand why u made the other thread.. i enjoyed the read. hogs and other hazards. its just further cleared up the thought i had in mind.. based on scripture interpretation and comparison.. i hope u get the chance to answer the qestions.. and thank u again for taking the time out..

The LORD bless and keep u all!! let us live in love

moicherie · Feb 8, 2008

thecountrydoc said:
Hi Moicherie,

In your post you said:You have offered your opinion on this matter but it is clear that you may have missed the biblical principals involved. May I suggest that you read my response to this poster's question in the main SDA forum. I do not make any judgement of those who chose to ignore the biblical principals involved but the logic seems quite clear.

Respectfully, your brother in Christ,
Doc.

I have not missed the principle involved, the prinicple involved is modesty so tell me whats immodest about having one's ears pierced and wearing small ear rings and what's modest about wearing a hat so wide that it takes up the whole row of seats in church and blocks the view? The former we condemn the latter we applaud.

moicherie · Feb 8, 2008

Dania said:
sigh... ere we go again. arguing... makes no sense argue! anyway!!! i found the read interesting. thanks for all your comments:

so the wedding ring.. make up... other jewelry...
okay. so what about fashion? how about hair.. can u perm it.. are u allowed to lock it? are we allowed to use perfume??? how about the music and entertainment that we listen to??? can we watch movies and stuff with cursing in it? what are the rules for this. there are many and i wanna know

Dania you will find as many answers to your questions as there are Adventists on the planet. I suggest you ask the Lord to guide you in all areas of your life. IMO following the advice of Adventists where there are so many differing views on grey areas like this is giving other sinful humans too much power over one's life.
IMO God does not care whether your hair is locked or not. And I doubt the European standard of beauty is the default one for humanity. Adam and Eve probably did not have combs or brushes so how do you think they hair looked? Contrary to some people's ignorance Rastafarianism did not invent the locking process, if any hair texture is not combed it will lock/matt/tangle etc. 'African'/Black hair tends to lock quicker and easier than others its as simple as that. If you want to perm your hair, colour your hair, curl your hair, comb your hair, brush your hair, wear perfume, use deodarant, use soap that is for you to decide. I'm sure you don't expect other Adventists to tell you want colour underwear to put on so in other areas of dressing and adornment
I would not expect them to tell me what to do in this area either. There are too many people eager to play 'live the way I live' in the church and not allow people to think for themselves.

digdeep · Feb 8, 2008

Dania said:
sigh... ere we go again. arguing... makes no sense argue! anyway!!! i found the read interesting. thanks for all your comments:

so the wedding ring.. make up... other jewelry...
okay. so what about fashion? how about hair.. can u perm it.. are u allowed to lock it? are we allowed to use perfume??? how about the music and entertainment that we listen to??? can we watch movies and stuff with cursing in it? what are the rules for this. there are many and i wanna know

I would suggest that you don't get caught up with rules. Rules change with time but principles last forever. Live by Biblical principles. Modesty is the principle. Keep your eyes focused on Jesus and His love for you. Jesus said abide in Him and He will abide in you and you will bear much fruit to His Glory.

DD

thecountrydoc · Feb 8, 2008

Moicherie, you may speak for yourself if you wish when you say:

I have not missed the principle involved, the prinicple involved is modesty so tell me whats immodest about having one's ears pierced and wearing small ear rings and what's modest about wearing a hat so wide that it takes up the whole row of seats in church and blocks the view? The former we condemn the latter we applaud.

However please don't try to include me when you say "we." And, no, the principal isn't modesty alone. In the case of piercings there is direct biblical prohibition against it. A lady's hat may or may not be imodest, but it certainly showes blatent selfishness to interfear with anothers enjoyment of a worship service and a desire to be the center of attention rather than the worship of God being the object of attention.

Respectfully,
Doc

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