Seven Seals -- Not in Chronological Order

[Choose Wisely]

Some of us choose to learn when presented with something they had not previously noticed. Others don't.



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We'll see what happens in the future.

 

[Watchman_2]

I agree that the seals are not given in order. I agree that the rider on the first horse is Satan. I agree that the "one of the seals" is the sixth seal.

I disagree with the rest! How can you write that the 6th seal is "the great day of the Lamb's wrath" when you just wrote the 6th seal is the time of Satan? Satan comes to deceive (which is why he is disguised as the rider on the white horse) and as shown....he arrives before the true Savior.

My labeling may have led to some confusion. If you look at my table at the top of the OP, I have the listed 6th seal as the 7th seal in time. My discussion under the table is based upon the listed seals. At the end of each listed seal, I state which seal it is chronologically.

Of course, the Lamb's wrath comes after Satan's appearance as the false christ. The 6th seal listed is the 7th seal in time.

Not long ago I wrote the following OP on the topic of the seals, I'm sorry about it's length but it explains what I believe the seals represent.....

If you don't mind, I will offer you my comments here instead of in your topic -

6:1-2 and 6:12-14 are not the same event. They are two separate seals. There is no 'great earthquake' when Satan is revealed to mankind while riding the white horse. See 11:13, the great earthquake takes place at the Lord's return -- 3.5 days after Satan has killed the 2 witnesses.
​

The events in 6:12-17 take place thereafter Satan's arrival on the white horse. Since the first listed seal is the 6th in time, the 6th listed seal, coming thereafter, can only be the 7th seal in time.
​

Regarding your 2nd listed seal analysis, I do not have that coming after Satan's arrival on the white horse. I have it prior to Satan's arrival, but after Satan and the fallen angels are cast out of heaven. In order to 'take peace from the earth', the one-world order will have to be in place. It is the 10 kings [of the fallen angels] who bring the one-world order into fruition. Satan gives his power [great sword] to this one-world order.
​

Since this 2nd listed seal has to take place after Satan and the fallen angels are released, one knows where to place it. As I have analyzed it, this 2nd listed seal is the 3rd seal in time.
​

Regarding the 3rd listed seal, I agree that it is about buying and selling -- the one-world economy. It will take some time after world peace is established to facilitate the new world-wide currency [Satan Dollars]. Whereas, world peace [2nd listed seal] can be enacted immediately upon the 10 kings taking world-wide governmental control. Hence, the 3rd listed seal, likewise comes after Satan and the fallen angels are cast out of heaven, is the 4th seal in time.
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Regarding the 4th listed seal, I agree that it is Satan and his entourage [fallen angels]. It speaks of when they are cast out of heaven. This takes place prior to Satan's revealing on the white horse, and prior to world peace and the one-world economy. Hence, this 4th listed seal is the second seal in time.
​

Regarding the 5th listed seal, I agree that it is about the martyrs throughout the ages. Obviously, it is the church age since the crucifixion of Christ. It has been taking place all along. Naturally, in time, this seal precedes all of the endtime events. The 5th listed seal is the first seal in time.

Regarding the 6th listed seal, I covered it above. The ones hiding themselves do so in shame as they had just worshipped Satan, thinking he was Christ. This seal is the 7th seal in time.

Regarding the 7th listed seal, I agree that it is half way of the hour of temptation. Hence, it comes after Satan and his angels are kicked out, after the 10 kings control the world gov't exacting world peace and the world economic system, but prior to Satan's arrival on the white horse. Hence, the 7th listed seal can only be the 5th seal in time.
​

 

[Watchman_2]

Your scripture says otherwise.

If you're are proposing there is no order then you are also proposing at the same time that the seals are randomly placed. God does not randomly give major points of prophecy in his written word, God is not the author of confusion.

God gives clues from time to time in scripture to see who really studies and who does not. This is one of those instances. In using the terminology 'seals of a scroll', God gives a clue that there is no necessary order of seal removal to open the scroll. God gives a further clue in 6:1, "one of the seals".

God is not the author of confusion. I used other scripture to set the order in time of the 7 seals. Those that develop eschatological theology based upon the seals given in chronological order will be misled.

To understand Revelation 6 it's vital that we read Christ's Olivet prophecy first, Matt 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21. You can place 2 computer bibles side by side , I used Matt 24 to compare with Rev 6

A few quick points first...................
In reading the Olivet Prophecy we first find that the apostles came to Christ PRIVATELY, Mark shows that it wasn't all the apostles but only four that came to him privately asking about the end times........Peter , Andrew, James and John.

Christ did give the Olivet prophecy in order of how events would unfold, one event following another event..........what's important about this is the fact that JOHN was one of those that came to him privately..........to imply there is no order to the seals being opened would also imply that John was first given the events in order then years later given a random order of the same events.

Comparing the 2 accounts shows that the seals are in order of events that lead up to Christ's second coming.........just a few here as an example.

First thing Christ says in Olivet discourse
Take heed that no man deceive you, false Christs, false prophets

First seal , white horse rider, false christianity, a counterfeit rider to the white horse rider of Rev 19 (Christ)

Next Christ tells his apostles.........Wars and Rumors of Wars among nations

Second seal , red horse rider War

Anyone can read further and find the 2 are synonymous with each other, each seal matches each event of Christ's prophecy....the Olivet Discourse is an overview of Rev 6

One more thing to notice , it's Christ who does the revealing in both instances, first in his earthly ministry then as the only one worthy to open the seals in light of this fact it would give rise to the question , why would Christ first give the events in order then randomly give the same events to John in Rev 6, what would be the motive in that ?


The seals are in chronological order of how and when the final end time events would unfold, they are in order and there is a reason that they were given in the order that they were given.

See OP. You are in complete error. All one has to do is read the events associated with each seal, compare them to other scripture, and one can plainly see that they are not given in chronological order.

 

[Manasseh_]

See OP. You are in complete error. All one has to do is read the events associated with each seal, compare them to other scripture, and one can plainly see that they are not given in chronological order.

I've seen the OP and the OP doesn't hold authority over God's written word. You can say and repeat over and over that I am in complete error but that is only a claim without evidence, you haven't proven that I am since you did not reply to my rebuttal, you only reiterated once again what you believe, that is not a very convincing method. If you want to convince that your premise is true then you have to present evidence. I presented evidence that your premise is not true.

The seals do not start in Rev 6, they are started in Rev 5 , the ONE that sits on the THRONE (the Father) has the book and it's in his right hand.
Any book, scroll, parchment, document must be read in chronological order for it to even make sense.
The ONE found worthy to open the book and break each seal (Christ) is opening it and beginning in order so that his apostle John is able to understand the events in order before his savior's return and to write them down in order.
The same fact holds true for prophecy, a prophecy must take place in order of the events being foretold............Noah would have died if God had flooded the earth before he even gave Noah the prophecy. The people of Nineveh would have perished if God had destroyed them before even sending Jonah to warn of the prophetic event that would destroy them and they REPENTED and God showed mercy and did not destroy them.

The seals are also in order because when they take place in order they finally kill 1/4 of the earth's population Rev 6:8
The seals are in order because with war first, what follows is famine after war and then also pestilence............then death.

God declares the end, right from the beginning, it couldn't be done if it were randomly done........God does not and never has shown his truth randomly and HE has never performed his will randomly.

ran·dom adj. 1. Having no specific pattern, purpose, or objective:

If the seals aren't in proper order then they have no specific pattern, purpose or objective, so what are they there for then in the first place if nothing more than to confuse the reader who wants understanding.

Your premise stands outside of scripture and it stands against the characteristics of God himself.

 

[vinsight4u]

/

 

[ivebeenshown]

This is one of those instances. In using the terminology 'seals of a scroll', God gives a clue that there is no necessary order of seal removal to open the scroll.

This is the opposite of the truth. If you knew how scrolls were sealed you wouldn't be saying this.

 

[Watchman_2]

I've seen the OP and the OP doesn't hold authority over God's written word. You can say and repeat over and over that I am in complete error but that is only a claim without evidence, you haven't proven that I am since you did not reply to my rebuttal, you only reiterated once again what you believe, that is not a very convincing method. If you want to convince that your premise is true then you have to present evidence. I presented evidence that your premise is not true.

You did not make any coherent point in your rebuttal. Hence, there was nothing for me to reply to. The only reasonable reply was for me to direct you back to the OP, which has laid the foundation for the Bible Truth that I presented.

In the future, if you can present your evidence in a coherent fashion, I would be happy to disprove it.

The seals do not start in Rev 6, they are started in Rev 5 , the ONE that sits on the THRONE (the Father) has the book and it's in his right hand.

Any book, scroll, parchment, document must be read in chronological order for it to even make sense.
The ONE found worthy to open the book and break each seal (Christ) is opening it and beginning in order so that his apostle John is able to understand the events in order before his savior's return and to write them down in order.

One cannot read the book, scroll, parchment, document until it is opened! That is the message conveyed by the use of 'seals'. There is no particular order of removing seals to a scroll to open it. They all have to be opened to read the scroll and understand the message therein. There is no necessary order to remove seven seals of a scroll to open it.

The same fact holds true for prophecy, a prophecy must take place in order of the events being foretold............Noah would have died if God had flooded the earth before he even gave Noah the prophecy. The people of Nineveh would have perished if God had destroyed them before even sending Jonah to warn of the prophetic event that would destroy them and they REPENTED and God showed mercy and did not destroy them.

Exactly!! PROPHECY is how one knows for certain that the seals are not given in chronological order. If you would allow the prophecy of the Bible, given in other scripture, to guide you in evaluating the order, in time, of the seals, you will get the results that I presented in the OP.

The seals are also in order because when they take place in order they finally kill 1/4 of the earth's population Rev 6:8

The seals are in order because with war first, what follows is famine after war and then also pestilence............then death.

Circular argument -- "the seals are also in order because when they take place in order . . .". You cannot prove a fact by assuming it true and expounding on it as if it were true.

Perhaps, you should try to rephrase it in a sensical manner so that I can disprove it.

God declares the end, right from the beginning, it couldn't be done if it were randomly done........God does not and never has shown his truth randomly and HE has never performed his will randomly.

ran·dom adj. 1. Having no specific pattern, purpose, or objective:

If the seals aren't in proper order then they have no specific pattern, purpose or objective, so what are they there for then in the first place if nothing more than to confuse the reader who wants understanding.

As I stated in my reply to your first rebuttal, God gives clues to those who really study the Word so that they will know that the seals are not given in chronological order. There is sufficient information in the Word to be able to discern the proper chronological order. Hence, God was not remiss at all -- He is just testing those who profess to be Christians to see who among them really study.

Your premise stands outside of scripture and it stands against the characteristics of God himself.

My analysis in the OP is outstandingly accurate. I would surmise that it is your religious indoctrination that is clouding your judgment on that which I wrote in the OP. Some people have a yearning to know Truth. Others will diss anything that falls outside of the religious brainwashing that they have received in their church.

 

[ivebeenshown]

If you would allow the prophecy of the Bible, given in other scripture, to guide you in evaluating the order, in time, of the seals, you will get the results that I presented in the OP.

The bible doesn't say what your OP says. Your OP has a lot of assumptions, a lot of 'logically... hence' arguments that aren't really based off of anything said in scripture. For instance: "Logically, world peace must precede world currency, so..."

But that is not even necessarily true. All of the world leaders could conspire and implement a world currency before there is ever world peace. In fact, you are just assuming the whole 'world currency' thing in the first place. Where does the bible say 'world currency'? Nowhere. It doesn't even explicitly define the mark of the beast.

You start off your argument with a big assumption, saying that '666' means '6th trumpet, 6th seal, 6th vial' except it doesn't say that anywhere in scripture. (In fact, the scripture says that 666 is the number of a man.) Then you build your entire post off of that one argument.

 

[Watchman_2]

The bible doesn't say what your OP says. Your OP has a lot of assumptions, a lot of 'logically... hence' arguments that aren't really based off of anything said in scripture. For instance: "Logically, world peace must precede world currency, so..."

But that is not even necessarily true. All of the world leaders could conspire and implement a world currency before there is ever world peace. In fact, you are just assuming the whole 'world currency' thing in the first place. Where does the bible say 'world currency'?

According to your thinking, the third listed seal is about someone riding on a horse carrying a balance, the buying of measures of wheat and barley for a penny, and the causing pain to oil and wine. After all, the Bible does not say anything else!

I point this out only to demonstrate the absurdity of your position. If we are to go by what the Bible says [according to you], one would be barred from using the brains that God gives us to understand symbolism, figurative speech, metaphors, allegories, and idioms. One is left with the literal interpretation of everything in scripture as logic is barred in your world.

With respect to, what I suspect is, your greater point, it is within the realm of possibility that mankind, without supernatural intervention, could bring about world gov't and world currency. [Certainly, current events are headed in that direction.] If so, that would bring the 2nd and 3rd listed seals ahead of the 4th listed seal in the chronology -- the 5th listed seal still being the first seal in time.

I did consider your position prior to setting the chronological order of seals in the OP. However, I rejected it. Mankind can't get anything right on their own. There is no evidence in the 6,000+ years from Adam to present that mankind has the propensity to pull off the gigantic feats of world peace and world currency. Just look at recent events with the Euro. The Bible does not suggest that it will be done until after the seven-headed, 10-horned, 10-crowned beast comes into fruition.

Nonetheless, if mankind does pull it off, one just has to count it up as one of the seals that has already taken place.

It doesn't even explicitly define the mark of the beast.

You start off your argument with a big assumption, saying that '666' means '6th trumpet, 6th seal, 6th vial' except it doesn't say that anywhere in scripture. (In fact, the scripture says that 666 is the number of a man.) Then you build your entire post off of that one argument.

The '666' argument is not an assumption at all. Although I did not choose to document the veracity thereof in the OP, it is easily resolved in scripture by the word rendered as 'count'. It eliminates all the nonsense put out there by Bible-illiterates regarding chips, bar codes, etc. and '666' being the mark of the beast.

In Strong's Concordance, the word rendered as 'count' -

G5585
ψηφίζω
psēphizō
psay-fid'-zo
From G5586; to use pebbles in enumeration, that is, (genitive case) to compute: - count.

The root word G5586 -

G5586
ψῆφος
psēphos
psay'-[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]
From the same as G5584; a pebble (as worn smooth by handling), that is, (by implication of use as a counter or ballot) a verdict (of acquittal) or ticket (of admission); a vote: - stone, voice.

​

'Count' means the enumeration of events over time, which will identify who is the beast of Rev. 13:11-18. With this understanding in hand, the only remaining question is whether it is six hundred and sixty-six events or 3 groupings of 6 events each.

When one views the trumpets, one sees the revealing of Satan at the 6th trumpet [Rev. 9:14-21]. The same holds true for the vials. Satan is revealed on the 6th vial [Rev. 16:12-14, 16]. The beast is revealed on the 6th trumpet and 6th vial -- should be the same for the 6th seal.

However, when one reads the 6th listed seal, one sees that it is the Lord's wrath, which corresponds to the 7th trumpet [Rev. 11:15] and the 7th vial [Rev. 16:17-21].

Accordingly, one knows, by way of the rendered word 'count', that the seals are not listed in chronological order. The 6th listed seal is the 7th seal in time. The first listed seal is the 6th seal in time.

​

 

[ivebeenshown]

According to your thinking, the third listed seal is about someone riding on a horse carrying a balance, the buying of measures of wheat and barley for a penny, and the causing pain to oil and wine. After all, the Bible does not say anything else!

Not at all. My opinion is that the third horseman symbolically represents famine.

I point this out only to demonstrate the absurdity of your position. If we are to go by what the Bible says [according to you], one would be barred from using the brains that God gives us to understand symbolism, figurative speech, metaphors, allegories, and idioms. One is left with the literal interpretation of everything in scripture as logic is barred in your world.

I can flip that on you: "If we are to go by what the Bible says, according to you..."

Of course Revelation is filled with symbols -- I just don't think you have it right. Assumptions have to be made to interpret any of them, and yours don't convince me -- yet you act as if you speak with the authority of God himself.

'Count' means the enumeration of events over time,

I disagree.

 

[Manasseh_]

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You did not make any coherent point in your rebuttal. Hence, there was nothing for me to reply to. The only reasonable reply was for me to direct you back to the OP, which has laid the foundation for the Bible Truth that I presented.

In the future, if you can present your evidence in a coherent fashion, I would be happy to disprove it.



One cannot read the book, scroll, parchment, document until it is opened! That is the message conveyed by the use of 'seals'. There is no particular order of removing seals to a scroll to open it. They all have to be opened to read the scroll and understand the message therein. There is no necessary order to remove seven seals of a scroll to open it.



Exactly!! PROPHECY is how one knows for certain that the seals are not given in chronological order. If you would allow the prophecy of the Bible, given in other scripture, to guide you in evaluating the order, in time, of the seals, you will get the results that I presented in the OP.



Circular argument -- "the seals are also in order because when they take place in order . . .". You cannot prove a fact by assuming it true and expounding on it as if it were true.

Perhaps, you should try to rephrase it in a sensical manner so that I can disprove it.



As I stated in my reply to your first rebuttal, God gives clues to those who really study the Word so that they will know that the seals are not given in chronological order. There is sufficient information in the Word to be able to discern the proper chronological order. Hence, God was not remiss at all -- He is just testing those who profess to be Christians to see who among them really study.



My analysis in the OP is outstandingly accurate. I would surmise that it is your religious indoctrination that is clouding your judgment on that which I wrote in the OP. Some people have a yearning to know Truth. Others will diss anything that falls outside of the religious brainwashing that they have received in their church.

we see here the whole reply is only on an attempt to discredit what I said by calling it incoherent or the implication that I've been "brainwashed"
These are ad hominems and they always have to be resorted to when one cannot directly refute the evidence given, so you have to appeal to the personal in an attempt to make it look as though you have responded directly to the evidence but haven't....only to repeat once again that the OP is higher in authority than scripture.

anyone experienced enough in discussion or debate will stay away from these kinds of tactics because they are so easily seen for what they are.

you or your OP have not been convincing and you have failed in your attempt to do so.

 

[Watchman_2]

Not at all. My opinion is that the third horseman symbolically represents famine.

Many think that as well. I have rejected that representation because scripture does not indicate that the endtime famine is about food -

Amo 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
​

The endtime famine is the hearing of the Word of God. One can witness it right here at this forum.

Hence, the symbolism of 'wheat' and 'barley' would not pertain to famine. Especially, using the term 'penny' therewith. Certainly, with the relative worthlessness of a penny combined with the fact that a famine for food would drive up the cost of wheat and barley, logic suggests it is not a famine for food.

Furthermore, one needs to take into consideration the rider on the horse carrying the balance. The 'balance' is used to weigh money for the food. The rider would control the commerce between those buying the wheat and barley and those supplying it. Now, if the buyer was tight with the merchant controlling the balance, the buyer would be allowed to buy food.

To me, this leaves no doubt that it is referring to that which is fully made operational in Rev. 13:17, as set up by the first beast [13:1].

I can flip that on you: "If we are to go by what the Bible says, according to you..."

Well, I back up all of my positions in scripture. Certainly, you have the right to formulate your own interpretations.

Of course Revelation is filled with symbols -- I just don't think you have it right. Assumptions have to be made to interpret any of them, and yours don't convince me -- yet you act as if you speak with the authority of God himself.

Well, it is very easy to see that the listed seals are not in chronological order. I really can't see why so many have a problem understanding this fact [other than church brainwashing].

The gifts that I have do come from God -- as do your gifts. Please forgive me if my assuredness offends you. It should not be the basis on whether you accept or reject the Truth which I present here. A wise person will love Truth, even if presented in rebuking form [Pro. 9:8]. A scorner to Truth will use whatever method available to reject Truth -- including the manner in which the seeds of Truth are cast.

I disagree.

I just cast the seeds of Truth. It depends on the ground on which the seed falls if whether the seed sprouts and grows. Perhaps, you are not fertile ground.

 

[ivebeenshown]

But both you and LovedofHim speak with the same self-assuredness, and both of you claim to just be presenting 'what the bible says'. I just find it hard to take someone seriously when they say things like 'belief in the rapture is the mark of the beast', as if Jesus would really condemn a faithful-to-the-death follower to hell because they had an 'off' understanding of end-times events. All Jesus's commandments he wanted us to do was believe on him and love each other -- aka, bear the seal of the Spirit in our forehead (intentions) and right hand (actions) rather than the mark of the beast. But that is only my view, and I am just as fallible as you are.

Luke 10
27And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

 

[Watchman_2]

we see here the whole reply is only on an attempt to discredit what I said by calling it incoherent or the implication that I've been "brainwashed"
These are ad hominems and they always have to be resorted to when one cannot directly refute the evidence given, so you have to appeal to the personal in an attempt to make it look as though you have responded directly to the evidence but haven't....only to repeat once again that the OP is higher in authority than scripture.

anyone experienced enough in discussion or debate will stay away from these kinds of tactics because they are so easily seen for what they are.

you or your OP have not been convincing and you have failed in your attempt to do so.

What is your problem?? You are admonishing me because you cannot present an intelligent argument, specific evidence of error, or a single coherent point!

The only thing that you have presented is that, in your opinion, my OP is contrary to the Olivet discourse. You didn't make a single point as to how my OP is in error.

Well, everyone has a right to an opinion. Your opinion is not a debating point. Your entire so-called rebuttal is nothing but an ad hominen attack. And, I know why. You cannot debate the Truth therein.

So, put up or shut up!

 

[ivebeenshown]

What is your problem?? You are admonishing me because you cannot present an intelligent argument, specific evidence of error, or a single coherent point!

The only thing that you have presented is that, in your opinion, my OP is contrary to the Olivet discourse. You didn't make a single point as to how my OP is in error.

Well, everyone has a right to an opinion. Your opinion is not a debating point. Your entire so-called rebuttal is nothing but an ad hominen attack. And, I know why. You cannot debate the Truth therein.

So, put up or shut up!

Hello... your whole OP is filled with opinions and assumptions based off of opinions...

 

[granpa]

The 7 seals are not given in chronolgical order! That's why the term 'seal' is used. There is no particular chronological order in removing seals to a scroll.

The seals, chronologically, are as follow:

Listed ------ In Time
1 -------------- 6
2 -------------- 3
3 -------------- 4
4 -------------- 2
5 -------------- 1
6 -------------- 7
7 -------------- 5

​

Any eschatology, which is based upon the seals being given in chronological order, is fatally flawed.

1st Seal
The key to understanding lies in the number of the beast [Satan] being 666 in Rev. 13:18, which stands for 6th seal, 6th trumpet, and 6th vial. In reviewing the seals, one sees that Satan [Antichrist], the rider on the white horse in 6:2, is the first one listed; but, it is listed as "one of the seals" -- not the "first one". Hence, there is dispositive proof that the seals are not given in chronological order. The 1st seal is the 6th seal chronologically.

To determine the chronological order of the other 6 seals, one simply needs to correlate them relative to Satan's seal.

6th Seal
This seal is the great day of the Lamb's wrath, which takes place after the seal identifying Satan [1st seal, which is the 6th chronologically]. It is the 7th seal chronologically.

7th Seal
This seal comes at the point of silence in heaven for one-half hour. In reading Rev. 17:12, the 10 kings have power given by Satan for one hour. Hence, the release of these 10 kings [Rev. 13:1] has to take place prior to this seventh seal. The seventh seal is one half hour later.

This 7th Seal marks the unleashing of the trumpets. The first 5 trumpets precede Satan's trumpet. Hence, the 7th seal has to take place prior to the seal identifying Satan's appearance [1st seal, which is the 6th seal chronologically]. The 7th seal is the 5th seal chronolgically.

4th Seal
This seal marks the casting out of heaven of Satan and his fallen angels, of which some will be the 10 kings of Rev. 13:1. It marks the beginning of the hour of silence in heaven. It has to take place prior to the 7th seal [5th chronolgically], as the 7th seal is after about one-half hour of silence in heaven. The 4th seal is the 2nd seal chronologically.

5th Seal
This seal marks the plea of the martyred saints for the endtime to commence. They are told to wait. Those martyred have received their salvation upon death of the flesh. This seal represents the time of teaching -- the church age, including the sealing of the 144,000 in Rev. 7:3-8. The sealing of the 144,000 takes place prior to the casting out of Satan and the fallen angels [2nd seal chronologically]. Hence, the 5th seal is the first seal in time.

3rd Seal
This seal marks the time of the protection of God's elect. Hence, this seal would have to take place after Satan and the fallen angels have been cast out of heaven. It also represents the one-world currency in which no one is allowed to buy or sell without taking the mark of the beast.

It will take sometime after the 10 kings take control of all world gov't before all economic power can be enforced. Hence, this seal comes after the second seal listed. The 3rd seal is the 4th seal chronologically.

2nd Seal
This seal marks the beginning of world peace, which only takes place when Satan's 10 kings take power over all world gov't. Hence, this seal has to take place after Satan and his angels are cast out of heaven. The first order of business, by edict, from these 10 kings will be world peace. World peace logically precedes the introduction of world currency and, hence, precedes the 3rd seal [4th chronologically]. The 2nd seal is the 3rd chronologically.

These things are complex and multifaceted so who knows there MIGHT be SOMETHING to what you say
but without knowing the context in which you place all this
and the line of reasoning that led you to these conclusions it is very difficult to say.

Simply saying that you arrived at these conclusions by 'comparing it to other scripture' is not helpful at all.
No one could be blamed for thinking that you are just avoiding the question.

 

[Choose Wisely]

I woke up hungry. I grabbed one of the boxes of cereal and ate. It was Cheerios.

I grabbed the second box and opened it. It was Capt Crunch.

I grabbed the third box and opened it. It was Frosted Flakes.

Now put the boxes in order of how they were opened. Remember, the first box was described as "one of the boxes"


This is too complex. Since the first box is described as one of the boxes I think it was opened second or third. I'm not sure though. Any ideas?

Maybe a rehash will help you figure out the order of those seals

 

[LovedofHim]

But both you and LovedofHim speak with the same self-assuredness, and both of you claim to just be presenting 'what the bible says'. .

There is a difference between Watchman2 and me. I hope it's obvious what that difference is (besides our viewpoints, of course).

 

[ivebeenshown]

There is a difference between Watchman2 and me. I hope it's obvious what that difference is (besides our viewpoints, of course).

Of course.

You're a girl.

 

[Manasseh_]

What is your problem?? You are admonishing me because you cannot present an intelligent argument, specific evidence of error, or a single coherent point!

The only thing that you have presented is that, in your opinion, my OP is contrary to the Olivet discourse. You didn't make a single point as to how my OP is in error.

Well, everyone has a right to an opinion. Your opinion is not a debating point. Your entire so-called rebuttal is nothing but an ad hominen attack. And, I know why. You cannot debate the Truth therein.

So, put up or shut up!

I have a problem
I can't
present an intelligent argument
give specific evidence to show your error
and I'm still incoherent in my replies
the only thing I've said so far is only my opinion
and finally my replies are ad hominens ( your attempt to turn my argument into your own) and added to this I cannot debate the truth ( another tactic of implication) that what you say is already truth without you being able to show or defend that it's truth.......more simply put, it's truth because you say it's truth.

Once again , the same tactic used, no response whatsoever to anything I brought as evidence on your part, you only appeal to the personal in an attempt to derail from having to respond directly to the evidence, ignore what's said altogether.
Then finally this "So, put up or shut up " another tactic, it's called a statement of intimiation, you do this in hopes that the other party will be intimidated enough to stop altogether

What you're calling truth is based soley on the tactics you use to refrain from having to directly respond to what I said about your premise. Your premise is still left without any defense,,, so you're still wrong about the seals not being in order.

You lost your argument by resorting to the tactics I mentioned, and I'm done with this exercise in futility.