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Seven headed beast

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Douggg

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Spiritual Jew said:
LOL. You didn't address anything I said. Hilarious. I might as well try to talk to a brick wall. The response would address my points just as much as you did.
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My post explained why your position of there being 7 different kings of 7 different kingdoms (which you did not list btw) is wrong. The 7 kings are all of the fourth kingdom. As is the 8th king the beast. You also did not address that when the 7th king comes, "he must continue a short space" (Revelation 17:10).

You also did not address that the ten kings (the ten horns) give their kingdom (singular) to the beast 8th king.

So stop with the snide remarks (i.e. the LOL, Hilarious, brick wall).

Since you don't make charts nor tables, you need to put more thought into your posts to provide clear outlines of your position. like I did in post # 37.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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I said that in Bible prophecy, mountains represent kingdoms. You didn't address that at all.

I said that one of the heads "is" at the time the book was written, which was the Roman empire. The heads do not represent the kings of the Roman empire. You have fallen for a false teaching made up by preterism, which is ironic for a futurist like you. Again, you didn't address this.

I said that it says that the woman sits on the seven mountains. You think that it talking about seven hills of Rome. But, the seven mountains are not any more literal mountains or hills than the many waters that the woman sits on, which symbolically represent "peoples, multitudes, nations and languages." (Rev 17:15). The seven mountains that the woman sits on are also no more literal than the beast she sits on (Rev 17:3). A symbolic woman does not sit on literal things.

Again, you didn't address that. You didn't address anything I said. Instead, all you can talk about is what I didn't address. How about actually addressing what I did say and then we can go from there instead of ignoring everything I said and just saying whatever you want to say. You seem to have no idea of how to have an actual discussion.

Douggg said:
You also did not address that the ten kings (the ten horns) give their kingdom (singular) to the beast 8th king.
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I addressed what I wanted to address for now. Why can't you address what I said in kind instead of complaining that I didn't give a fully detailed explanation of the whole passage?

Douggg said:
So stop with the snide remarks (i.e. the LOL, Hilarious, brick wall).
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I will not. Stop refraining from actually addressing my points and then you won't have to worry about that.

Douggg said:
Since you don't make charts nor tables, you need to put more thought into your posts to provide clear outlines of your position. like I did in post # 37.
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Your charts and tables are useless because they present false information. There are no charts in scripture. Charts are completely unnecessary. You are just full of pride and want to try to show off your chart making skills. Scripture has no charts, so you should be able to talk about scripture without using charts. Expecting others to use charts just because you do is completely ridiculous and unreasonable.
 
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Douggg

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Spiritual Jew said:
I said that in Bible prophecy, mountains represent kingdoms. You didn't address that at all.
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In Daniel 7, were the four kingdoms represented by mountains or beasts ?

The little horn person comes out of the fourth kingdom.
 
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Spiritual Jew

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Douggg said:
In Daniel 7, were the four kingdoms represented by mountains or beasts ?

The little horn person comes out of the fourth kingdom.
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Typical weak argument from you. As if kingdoms can't be represented by both mountains and beasts?

Do you think the following is referring to a literal, physical mountain or symbolically to the kingdom of God?

Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.
 
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Douggg

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The verse is speaking about the temple mount. Also known as Mount Moriah.

The beast-king will have his end there in Daniel 11:45

Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.
 
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Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea.

So, you think this is just saying "they shall not hurt nor destroy" on Mount Moriah and that Mount Moriah is God's holy mountain? That completely takes away from the significance of the verse.

It's talking about not hurting or destroying in the kingdom of God on the entire earth because those who are in the kingdom of God experience "righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit" (Romans 14:17).

Isaiah 11:9 is not talking about a mountain that can be touched, but rather the heavenly Mount Zion.

Hebrews 12:18 You have not come to a mountain that can be touched and that is burning with fire; to darkness, gloom and storm; .......
22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

If you interpret Isaiah 11:9 to be referring to a literal, physical mountain, that makes me wonder how you interpret the verse after that one?

Isaiah 11:10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
 
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Douggg

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Isaiah 11:10 is referring to Jesus.

In Daniel 11:45, who ends the beast-king's time when....

Daniel 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

.... it will be Jesus of Isaiah 11:10 who will end the beast-king's time.
 
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Let's look at this from another perspective. This discussion about mountains started from what it says in this verse:

Revelation 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

Tell me, why would it take any wisdom to understand that the seven mountains are literal mountains? That would be a no brainer and take no wisdom at all if that's what it was saying. But, it says the woman sits on those seven mountains. What else does the woman sit on? Literal, physical things or symbolic things?

Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great harlot that sitteth upon many waters: 2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. 3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

So, in addition to the seven mountains, the woman also sits on "many waters" and "a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns".

Revelation 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the harlot sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

The many waters the woman sits on are not literal waters, but rather "peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues". No matter what anyone thinks the scarlet colored beast that the woman sits on represents, it's not a literal beast with seven heads and ten horns.

So, tell me how the symbolic woman, who sits on symbolic waters and a symbolic beast, sits on literal, physical mountains rather than symbolic mountains? Where is the consistency in that?
 
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Douggg

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Spiritual Jew said:
So, tell me how the symbolic woman, who sits on symbolic waters and a symbolic beast, sits on literal, physical mountains rather than symbolic mountains? Where is the consistency in that?
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The consistency is in the mind that has wisdom, Revelation 17:9, as the angel began to explain.

Just as the ten horns represent ten kings, the seven heads represent seven kings associated with the place of seven mountains where the woman sits,

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

In Daniel 7, the ten kings are of the fourth kingdom in that chapter that has teeth of iron, the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire manifested in the end times is the EU. The little horn of Daniel 7-8 emerges out of the EU. In his final stage of development becomes the beast-king, dictator of the EU.


 
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LOL. You never want to actually address the points that I'm making. Nothing here explains why the symbolic woman who otherwise sits on symbolic things somehow sits on literal mountains. There's no consistency at all in believing that. But, when you want to make scripture say whatever you want it to say, you interpret scripture in whatever way is convenient for you while throwing consistency out the window.
 
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Douggg

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Explain this verse of what happens to the woman...

Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Also, explain what kingdom does the ten kings agree to give to the beast...

Revelation 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
 
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And you continue to ignore my points, so I will ignore yours as well. It's futile trying to have a discussion with you. Everyone knows this, too. I'm just saying what everyone thinks.
 
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Douggg

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Spiritual Jew said:
And you continue to ignore my points, so I will ignore yours as well. It's futile trying to have a discussion with you. Everyone knows this, too. I'm just saying what everyone thinks.
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You have been talking about the symbolism of the woman. And you claim the seven kings really represent seven kingdoms.

So the two verses of Revelation 17:16 involving the woman and Revelation 17:17 involving that of a kingdom - you should explain what those two verses mean in accordance with your consistency.

So explain this verse of what happens to the woman...

Revelation 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

Also, explain what kingdom does the ten kings agree to give to the beast...

Revelation 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.
 
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Douggg said:
You have been talking about the symbolism of the woman. And you claim the seven kings really represent seven kingdoms.
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No, I claim that the seven mountains represent seven kingdoms. I showed that the other things the symbolic woman sits on are symbolic entities like the many waters and the scarlet beast with seven heads and ten horns. So, with that in mind, how can a symbolic woman sit on seven literal mountains? Can you please answer this question that I've already asked before with no response? You always expect me to answer your questions while you ignore mine. That isn't reasonable.

I do not know for certain the identity of the ten horns and their kingdom and I am not one who likes to speculate. What does this have to do with determining if the seven mountains are literal mountains or are symbolic for kingdoms?
 
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Douggg

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The seven mountains are where the woman sits - a city, not a country (kingdom).

Revelation 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

The city is Rome, the location of the Vatican, which through the RCC has influence around the world. The woman is the Vatican, which the ten EU kings will burn to the ground in Revelation 17:16.
 
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The woman represents a spiritual city, Babylon, that is the spiritual opposite of the new Jerusalem, which is "the bride, the Lamb's wife" (Rev 21:9). It spiritually represents everything that opposes the Lamb (Jesus) and its citizens are all of those who follow after everything that opposes the Lamb. Your view of the woman is far too narrow in scope as she uses more than just the RCC to influence the world. She is the mother of all harlots of which the RCC or Vatican is just one.

The symbolic woman does not sit on literal things. The many waters she sits on are not literally many waters. The scarlet beast with seven heads and ten horns she sits on is not a literal scarlet beast with seven heads and ten horns. And the seven mountains she sits on are not literal mountains, but rather the seven historical world empires/kingdoms that she has influence over.
 
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