Seven headed beast

[bniffty24]

Not so. Yes it was around two years later than the birth, and Jesus was no longer in the manger. But Jesus, Mary and Joseph were still in Bethlehem:

“And he sent them to Bethlehem and said, "Go and search carefully for the young Child, and when you have found Him, bring back word to me, that I may come and worship Him also."” (Mt 2:8 NKJV)

Nazareth was some 70 miles from Bethlehem. If Jesus was indeed in Nazareth, they wouldn't ha ve found Him by going to Bethlehem. You say: "and it says they went back to their hometown of Nazareth." Yes it does, but that was after the wise men had visited, and Herod killed the boys 2 years old and under in Bethlehem (not Nazareth!), and Mary Joseph and Jesus had gone as refugees to Egypt:

“But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt, saying, "Arise, take the young Child and His mother, and go to the land of Israel, for those who sought the young Child’s life are dead." Then he arose, took the young Child and His mother, and came into the land of Israel. But when he heard that Archelaus was reigning over Judea instead of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. And being warned by God in a dream, he turned aside into the region of Galilee. And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, "He shall be called a Nazarene."” (Mt 2:19-23 NKJV)

I agree that when the wise men came to Bethlehem, Mary, Joseph and Jesus were living in a house.

I'm not saying the house the wise men visited was in Nazareth , I actually don't know where that house was as the scriptures don't say.
Any attempt to nail it down would be speculation on both our parts.

 

[Douggg]

Probably because Jesus was no longer in Bethlehem because it was two yrs later.
The nativity scene should be showing the jewish shepherds who were told to go see him by the Angel Gabriel.

Jesus was circumcised in jerusalem at 8 days old and it says they went back to their hometown of Nazareth.
And when the wise men are led to Jesus by that star , it says he is living in a house and not a barn as the false nativity scene we see today shows.

Hi brittny24,

The nativity scene is not false. The account of Jesus's birth and having been in a manger when the shepherds came to worship him is in Luke 2.

Luke 2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

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The angel of the Lord then visited the shepherds...

Luke 2: 11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

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The shepherds then did not waste any time and went to Bethlehem to see the newly born Jesus....

16 And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.

17 And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child.

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After the shepherds headed back home, then eight days after Jesus was born, Jesus was circumcised...

20 And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them.

21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

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Then, after Mary's days of purification, Joseph and Mary brought Jesus to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord at the temple....

22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;

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A man in Jerusalem, named Simeon, had been promised he would not die before seeing the Lord's Christ. So when Mary and Joseph had brought Jesus to the temple....

26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,

28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,

29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:

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then, after their time in Jerusalem, presenting, dedicating, Jesus to the Lord, Mary and Joseph took Jesus with them to the region of Galilee, the city of Nazareth. Where Jesus grew up....

39 And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth.

40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

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@bniffty24 I am still sorting out how all the combined events of Matthew 2 and Luke 2 fits together. The manger scene though often depicted in an illustration is correct. (nothing personal regarding correcting you on that one matter. Let us reason together, in discussing the events, to try and figure everything out).

 

[David Lamb]

I'm not saying the house the wise men visited was in Nazareth , I actually don't know where that house was as the scriptures don't say.
Any attempt to nail it down would be speculation on both our parts.

But you did write: "Probably because Jesus was no longer in Bethlehem because it was two yrs later.......Jesus was circumcised in jerusalem at 8 days old and it says they went back to their hometown of Nazareth."

The wise men (and Herod) were told by Herod's advisors, on the basis of the Old Testament, that Jesus was in Bethlehem. We are not told that they went anywhere else.

However, the title of this thread is "Seven-headed Beast," so I think perhaps we are both going off-topic.

 

[David Lamb]

Hi brittny24,

The nativity scene is not false. The account of Jesus's birth and having been in a manger when the shepherds came to worship him is in Luke 2.

Luke 2:7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The angel of the Lord then visited the shepherds...

Luke 2: 11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.

12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

The shepherds then did not waste any time and went to Bethlehem to see the newly born Jesus....

16 And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.

17 And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

After the shepherds headed back home, then eight days after Jesus was born, Jesus was circumcised...

20 And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them.

21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then, after Mary's days of purification, Joseph and Mary brought Jesus to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord at the temple....

22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

A man in Jerusalem, named Simeon, had been promised he would not die before seeing the Lord's Christ. So when Mary and Joseph had brought Jesus to the temple....

26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,

28 Then took he him up in his arms, and blessed God, and said,

29 Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace, according to thy word:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

then, after their time in Jerusalem, presenting, dedicating, Jesus to the Lord, Mary and Joseph took Jesus with them to the region of Galilee, the city of Nazareth. Where Jesus grew up....

39 And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth.

40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------


@bniffty24 I am still sorting out how all the combined events of Matthew 2 and Luke 2 fits together. The manger scene though often depicted in an illustration is correct. (nothing personal regarding correcting you on that one matter. Let us reason together, in discussing the events, to try and figure everything out).

As you will see from my posts here, I don't agree with bniffty24 that the wise men went to Nazareth. However, the idea that the wise men saw Jesus in a manger doesn't fit with what we read in the bible. Why did Herod kill the baby boys 2 years old and under? It was according to the time the wise men had seen the star appear. I agree with Adam Clarke who in his commentary on the verses about the circumcision of Jesus, and the going to Nazareth afterwards, wrote: "But not immediately: for the coming of the wise men, and the retreat of Joseph with his family into Egypt, happened between this period of time, and his going to Nazareth in Galilee."

 

[bniffty24]

The nativity scene is not false. The account of Jesus's birth and having been in a manger when the shepherds came to worship him is in Luke 2.

I am agreeing with you Douggg , it was the shepherds not the wise men.
But in the nativity scene we have the wise men instead of the shepherds.

 

[bniffty24]

However, the title of this thread is "Seven-headed Beast," so I think perhaps we are both going off-topic.

Very much so....and sorry to the OP for going off track....

 

[David Lamb]

Very much so....and sorry to the OP for going off track....

So am I.

 

[Douggg]

I am agreeing with you Douggg , it was the shepherds not the wise men.
But in the nativity scene we have the wise men instead of the shepherds.

I see your point. The shepherds and the wise men were two different groups.

Thus, the part of any manger nativity scene of wise men offering gifts is incorrect. The manger nativity scene should show sheperds, not the wise men..

Also the shepherds in Luke 2 did not follow a star, but went right away to Bethlehem...

Luke 2:15 And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.

16 And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.

haste meaning speed, urgency.

The shepherds did not have an interaction with Herod. Differently, the wise men did.

The shepherds found Jesus in the manger.

Differently, the wise men when they arrived Jesus was no longer in the manager, but in the house. Matthew 2:11. Correct ?

 

[tailgator]

This is what the beast is doing today.

Inside Israel’s ‘torture’ jails where Palestinians tell of physical and mental abuse

A special investigation by Chief International Correspondent Bel Trew reveals allegations of brutal treatment of Palestinians in Israeli facilities including rape, torture, medical neglect and death. Israel rejects all accusations of wrong-doing

www.independent.co.uk

You don't have to be charged with a crime in Israel.You only need to be hated and there is plenty of that to go around.


Mathew 10
22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

 

[tailgator]

Very much so....and sorry to the OP for going off track....

It's not a problem.I get off track all the time.
I'm just bringing to everyone's attention what Herod's successor is doing and will do that would make Herod blush.

Murder doesn't bother either of them.

 

[Douggg]

As you will see from my posts here, I don't agree with bniffty24 that the wise men went to Nazareth. However, the idea that the wise men saw Jesus in a manger doesn't fit with what we read in the bible. Why did Herod kill the baby boys 2 years old and under? It was according to the time the wise men had seen the star appear. I agree with Adam Clarke who in his commentary on the verses about the circumcision of Jesus, and the going to Nazareth afterwards, wrote: "But not immediately: for the coming of the wise men, and the retreat of Joseph with his family into Egypt, happened between this period of time, and his going to Nazareth in Galilee."

Hi David, I am trying to sort the combined events of Matthew 2 and Luke 2 out. Let us reason together.

The shepherds came and found Jesus in the manager.

That must have been around two years before the wise men came from the east following the star. (Matthew 2:9 the star leading them). Which would account of Herod ordering the killing of all the children 2 years old and under.

Herod told the wise men to continue their journey to Bethlehem. (Matthew 2:8). The wise men arrived in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:9-11). Found young Jesus, around 2 years, in the house. (Matthew 2:11)

When the wise men left, they had a dream in which God told them not to report Herod, and so they returned to their own county (Matthew 2:12)

After the wise men left, is when the angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph and told him to take Mary and 2 year old Jesus to Egypt. And they were in Egypt until Herod died.

After Herod died, Archelaus his son ruled in Judaea. So instead of returning to Bethlehem, Joseph with Mary and young Jesus, went to Galilee, the city of Nazareth.

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So, overall.

Jesus is born in a manger in Bethlehem, and the shepherds come and find him there.

two years later....

The wise men follow the star, heading toward Bethlehem, when on the way they have an encounter with Herod.

After the wise men's visit, Joseph and Mary take Jesus to Egypt, until Herod dies. They return to Israel to live in Nazareth.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Revelation 12
12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.






What was the name of that Jewish king who sought to kill Jesus soon as he was born?
Anyone know who that beast of a man was?

Why are you asking that question in relation to the scripture you posted which relates to Satan? The great red dragon is Satan.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

[tailgator]

Why are you asking that question in relation to the scripture you posted which relates to Satan? The great red dragon is Satan.

Revelation 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Because the man who sought to kill the child was the one governing the seven heads at the time.


Revelation 12
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.



The seven heads are not actual heads with brains in them .They represent seven hills on which sits a prostitute.


Revelation 17
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.




I read in the news ,one of the horns recently called for the destruction of the prostitute.In the end they attack and destroy her.I think it's still a few years away though.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Because the man who sought to kill the child was the one governing the seven heads at the time.

But, you understand that the great red dragon is Satan, right? Since Revelation 12:9 explicitly says so?

Revelation 12:9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

As for what you said here, it shows your lack of attention to detail. The seven heads did not all exist at that time when Herod tried to kill Jesus. Five had fallen, one existed at the time and one was yet to come.

Revelation 17:9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.

 

[tailgator]

But, you understand that the great red dragon is Satan, right? Since Revelation 12:9 explicitly says so?

Revelation 12:9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

As for what you said here, it shows your lack of attention to detail. The seven heads did not all exist at that time when Herod tried to kill Jesus. Five had fallen, one existed at the time and one was yet to come.

Revelation 17:9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while.

Yes ,the seven hills on which sat Herod's capital city existed when Herod sought to kill the child.

You lack wisdom.

Revelation 17
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

Yes ,the seven hills on which sat Herod's capital city existed when Herod sought to kill the child.

You lack wisdom.

Revelation 17
9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

No one here is more lacking in wisdom than you. You prove it with almost every post you make. You didn't address that it says five of the heads were fallen, one is, and one was yet to come. You're still trying to say they all exist at the same time despite five of them having fallen? Why do you just ignore that? You have to be completely lacking in wisdom to ignore something like that.

It's not talking about literal mountains there. In Bible prophecy mountains represent kingdoms. That's why it also says the seven heads represent seven kings. But, you need wisdom to understand that and you don't have any.

 

[Douggg]

No one here is more lacking in wisdom than you. You prove it with almost every post you make. You didn't address that it says five of the heads were fallen, one is, and one was yet to come. You're still trying to say they all exist at the same time despite five of them having fallen? Why do you just ignore that? You have to be completely lacking in wisdom to ignore something like that.

It's not talking about literal mountains there. In Bible prophecy mountains represent kingdoms. That's why it also says the seven heads represent seven kings. But, you need wisdom to understand that and you don't have any.

The seven heads represent both...

1. where the woman who had prostituted herself sits - Rome

2. seven king associated with that location - seven kings of the Roman Empire.

1. Julius Caesar
2. Augustus Caesar
3. Tiberius
4. Caligula
5. Claudius

6. Nero.

7. little horn end times person
8. the beast king (the little horn person in stage 5 of his development)

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The seven heads represent both...

1. where the woman who had prostituted herself sits - Rome

2. seven king associated with that location - seven kings of the Roman Empire.

1. Julius Caesar
2. Augustus Caesar
3. Tiberius
4. Caligula
5. Claudius

6. Nero.

7. little horn end times person
8. the beast king (the little horn person in stage 5 of his development)

No. You, too, are not accepting what the text indicates. Five of the heads, representing mountains and kings, are fallen. In Bible prophecy, mountains represent kingdoms. One of the heads "is" at the time the book was written, which was the Roman empire. The heads do not represent the kings of the Roman empire. You have fallen for a false teaching made up by preterism, which is ironic for a futurist like you. The heads each represent the historical world empires and their kings, not kings of the Roman empire. Obviously, the current world empire at the time was the Roman empire and there were five previous world empires that had fallen.

It says that the woman sits on the seven mountains. You think that it talking about seven hills of Rome. But, the seven mountains are not any more literal mountains or hills than the many waters that the woman sits on, which symbolically represent "peoples, multitudes, nations and languages." (Rev 17:15). The seven mountains that the woman sits on are also no more literal than the beast she sits on (Rev 17:3). A symbolic woman does not sit on literal things.

 

[Douggg]

No. You, too, are not accepting what the text indicates. Five of the heads, representing mountains and kings, are fallen. In Bible prophecy, mountains represent kingdoms. One of the heads "is" at the time the book was written, which was the Roman empire. The heads do not represent the kings of the Roman empire. You have fallen for a false teaching made up by preterism, which is ironic for a futurist like you. The heads each represent the historical world empires and their kings, not kings of the Roman empire. Obviously, the current world empire at the time was the Roman empire and there were five previous world empires that had fallen.

It says that the woman sits on the seven mountains. You think that it talking about seven hills of Rome. But, the seven mountains are not any more literal mountains or hills than the many waters that the woman sits on, which symbolically represent "peoples, multitudes, nations and languages." (Rev 17:15). The seven mountains that the woman sits on are also no more literal than the beast she sits on (Rev 17:3). A symbolic woman does not sit on literal things.

The end times little horn person comes out of the fourth kingdom of Daniel 7 having iron teeth - the Roman Empire - over ten kings.

In Revelation 17:17, those tens kings hand their end times Roman Empire kingdom over to him (the beast) to be dictator over it.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

The end times little horn person comes out of the fourth kingdom of Daniel 7 having iron teeth - the Roman Empire - over ten kings.

In Revelation 17:17, those tens kings hand their end times Roman Empire kingdom over to him (the beast) to be dictator over it.

LOL. You didn't address anything I said. Hilarious. I might as well try to talk to a brick wall. The response would address my points just as much as you did.