Setting boundaries in marriage

[Yitzchak]

That's awsome yitchak! Not to put my husband down about this... but he lacks in those areas. I can definetely see the benefit of the man (or woman) showing their love by setting appropriate boundaries. My husband defends his mom and seems much more dedicated to work then family, which all makes me feel unloved and the least important to him. Of course he doesn't have a good role model, his dad is the same way. My MIL will whine and complain because she wants new furniture.. that is something very important to her, and he won't spend a dime (exagerting just a little.... well, a lot.. but the point is the same) but he'll go out and just splurge on things for himself or willingly buy furniture for his children and what not.

My husband doesn't and his father don't seem to see the value in honoring their wives in these scenarios... but treat us less then children sometimes because they think it's for our own good.

So Good for you yitchak, i'm impressed!

It wasn't always that way.... these are the types of things that The Lord has talked to me about in the context of restoring me in the area of not having had a father.....6 years ago God dealt with me at a "Father loves you " conference and started a process where piece by piece he has begun to restore me...There is still a long way to go in this area for me...

By the way , this is one area I actually feel sorry for my ex wife about. she lived with me for 15 years with me being a fatherless mama's boy ( a very likable on though ). then after she left me , God began to fix me and she never got to see the benefit of her investment of patience in me.....Now she is with another Mama's boy.....

 

[hisbloodformysins]

When I read your post , I got out of it that you did not think this was not that much of a problem. Just a little bump in the road taken in stride. Which is fine .

But in my life I have had to fight for this thing tooth and nail at times even for my very emotional survival.If I told my mother I had to get up early and cut the visit short we would have a battle for a month with her bringing it up several times and maybe even suggesting that I am at the wrong job that I have to get up early..And if my wife was the one to make the suggestion , the battle would be six months because then there were two control issues to deal with instead of just one. I have had bosses threaten to fire me for not staying for a double shift or working on sunday and missing church even when we had an agreement up front about my schedule when they hired me which they changed without discussion or notice....I have had to take it up the chain of command in order to keep my job.I have had to repeat myself several times to other family members who seems to be agreeable with the time constraints of visits until the time comes to actually leave and then I am in the place of reminding them and have them be offended...one time my father in law said he might as well not even come to visit if it is cut short like that...even after a five hour visit and a discussion beforehand about the need for a time constraint because of other plans that were important to us...So now it is either cancel our plans or havea big fight.....

So I guess I would say , yes , you seemed to imply that you don't have those type of battles to fight in your life.

Kudos to you for standing your ground and setting those limits. It's really about dealing with resistant people, and it's not manipulation, because manipulation is an attempt to control someone else's behavior, but rather boundary setting is standing up for your needs, regardless of how others respond. I'm there learning how to shrug off other's feelings.. because i've always been a sympathetic person... so learning how to let their feelings be their responsibility, regardless of the big fit they throw or their choices is a freeing concept. One time I had started a diet that was all about portion control... basically I needed to stop eating when I'm full (common sense to naturally thin person)... and my grandmother came out to visit. We all went to sub way so after 1/4 to 1/2 of my sandwhich gone, I decided I was full and began to wrap it up. My grandmother did not approve, she stated that we were staying there until I finished my sandwhich. I was an adult, about 19 maybe... and so I told her that no, i wasn't eating anymore, and invited her to finish it herself if she'd like. She said no, then we all left.... but cummon now. My grandmother has those issues your mother has in a way...... she does not like boundaries set and will have a big pity party and make it all about her.. it's really like you said, control tactic. It is hard to stand up to those things.

HB

 

[Yitzchak]

Does my post imply that I did not experience this sort of thing or the opposite?

I hope my post wasn't too harsh... I might be a little envious of someone not having to struggle like I had to in this area.....

 

[hisbloodformysins]

I think she's just struggling with the term. I assume it's a prejudice against psycho babble. If so then thats ok, not a big deal or anything.

 

[Yitzchak]

That's awsome yitchak! Not to put my husband down about this... but he lacks in those areas. I can definetely see the benefit of the man (or woman) showing their love by setting appropriate boundaries. My husband defends his mom and seems much more dedicated to work then family, which all makes me feel unloved and the least important to him. Of course he doesn't have a good role model, his dad is the same way. My MIL will whine and complain because she wants new furniture.. that is something very important to her, and he won't spend a dime (exagerting just a little.... well, a lot.. but the point is the same) but he'll go out and just splurge on things for himself or willingly buy furniture for his children and what not.

My husband doesn't and his father don't seem to see the value in honoring their wives in these scenarios... but treat us less then children sometimes because they think it's for our own good.

So Good for you yitchak, i'm impressed!

Take this as an encouragement that God can change people and your efforts are for a noble cause.....I can't express how much emotional healing it has brought to me to be able to have the freedom to love my wife in these ways.... It reminds me of a testimony that Heather Jackson gave about how God showed her his love was not just for the victims but also for the victimizers. There is a pain that goes deep in the heart of a man who loves his wife and is trapped in a dysfunctional pattern where he lets her down and damages her emotionally...I carryed the guilt of that with my ex wife. I knew that I had patterns that just crushed and discouraged her emotionally but was powerless to break out of them. I had no idea that it was a lack of Father issues that made me that way...Just that I could not express my love fully the way I wanted to. I gave 100% of what I had to give because I really loved my ex wife with all my heart.but was forced to love her with the limits of these shakles upon me

But when God began to father me and take away my shame , I could have an intimacy that I never even dreamed of. Both with God and now with my wife......

 

[DIANAC]

Everyone has problems, including me. And the Bible has answers to all problems. But church is not addressing them. Or is addressing them wrongly. And, unfortunately the modern psychology high jacked this important area.
No, I am not struggling with this term. I simply do not like it. Setting boundaries does have its roots in the New Age teaching and has to do with loving self which is unbiblical.
The word of God is so rich and has practical answers to all of life's problems. I am inviting to look in the Bible for all the answers.

 

[Yitzchak]

That is why I posted the way I did about your situation....I am so thankful for the chastisement of Father God in my life....I am praying for your husband that this area where the struggle is could be the doorway to more than just breaking a bad habit. There is a joy and a healing that comes when a man is set free to actually take the initiative in loving his wife the way she needs to be loved. there is also a shame that is almost impossible to face for a man when he feels he has failed in this most important area of his life....Your husband probably doesn't realize the pain that is in his heart and how God wants to heal him.....

I see that God has the sitaution right where it is supposed to be...This is the result of much prayer , I am sure....Just keep your heart soft....God loves you and your husband and wants this area healed and fixed but I think God is after the root issues and not just the surface and that is why it takes so long....

 

[Rembrandtfan]

My grandmother has those issues your mother has in a way...... she does not like boundaries set and will have a big pity party and make it all about her.. it's really like you said, control tactic. It is hard to stand up to those things.

HB

People like this are manipulators (not trying to insult your grandmother, or anything). Because they are insecure, they will never acknowledge that they are wrong. They will always throw it back on someone else. They cry or pout and make you feel guilty, or do anything to make you question yourself and back off.

 

[CuriousInIL]

But he is stubborn, and continues his behavior. In his mind he thinks he's going to force me to change my expectations and do it ihis way. He needs to learn in one way or another that he has to respect other people's feelings and "boundaries" instead of insisting on everyone doing things his way.

How is your "boundary setting" not just YOU being "stubborn" and continuing YOUR "behavior"? In YOUR mind, aren't YOU thinking that the boundary setting will "force [HIM] to change [HIS] expectations"?

I am not trying to be mean, I really do not see how it isn't just the flipside of his actions. He thinks he is right; you think you are.

 

[hisbloodformysins]

Everyone has problems, including me. And the Bible has answers to all problems. But church is not addressing them. Or is addressing them wrongly. And, unfortunately the modern psychology high jacked this important area.
No, I am not struggling with this term. I simply do not like it. Setting boundaries does have its roots in the New Age teaching and has to do with loving self which is unbiblical.
The word of God is so rich and has practical answers to all of life's problems. I am inviting to look in the Bible for all the answers.

Setting boundaries even happened in the bible. Bot Yitzchak and I briefly touched on scriptures in which there was boundary setting. I disagree that setting boundaries is unbiblical, however it's learning the balance in setting them in a godly fashion and we first have to feel like it's GOD'S WIll in that area that we are setting boundaries... i had a friend who offended me constantly... and I put up with it because I felt too guilty otherwise, I felt like it was my godly obligation to be this girls friend, even though she didn't care about my feelings, only her own. It took me many years of praying and seeking the lord before he brough the scripture to me where the apostle paul tells us to confront a brother if he offends you... he might change his heart and repent and be won back to you, if he doesn't repent then bring a witness... then the church.. then if he STIll doesn't repent, HAVE NOTHING MORE TO DO WTIH Him. That was a very freeing scripture when the lord brought it to my attention because i had attempted to discuss this girl's offensive behaviors with her more then once... and tried loving her more.. that just encouraged her to be more self centered... i was so angry and offended by this girl daily for good reason, got to the point to where I hated her... but when I brought this up to christian friends the response was "oh, love her and forgive her... accept her" however, when the lord brought that scripture to me one night during my bible reading, it agreed with what I already felt was in my heart.... that I needed to stand up for the boundaries I was attempting to set in my life with her, and if she didn't respect them, inorder to protect my mental and emotional health and from have hate in my heart towards her, I had to end it with her. And finallly I did end it with her, and her last words to me were that I was being "selfish". Nope, I was standing up for myself, she was the one being selfish, I had tried so many different things to get rid of that anger in my heart towards her, but bottom line was that she was selfish and did not show regard for my personal needs, though I had brought them up to her over and over. I see her reaction is just being resistant and angry because she wasn't controlling the situation anymore. Those are her issues with God and whatever current attitudes she may still have... not my problem. I have no doubt in my heart that ending that friendship was the right thing to do. But God gave me that confidence, not traditional christian ideas. So thank God for these new teachings on boundaries.

HB

 

[hisbloodformysins]

That is why I posted the way I did about your situation....I am so thankful for the chastisement of Father God in my life....I am praying for your husband that this area where the struggle is could be the doorway to more than just breaking a bad habit. There is a joy and a healing that comes when a man is set free to actually take the initiative in loving his wife the way she needs to be loved. there is also a shame that is almost impossible to face for a man when he feels he has failed in this most important area of his life....Your husband probably doesn't realize the pain that is in his heart and how God wants to heal him.....

I see that God has the sitaution right where it is supposed to be...This is the result of much prayer , I am sure....Just keep your heart soft....God loves you and your husband and wants this area healed and fixed but I think God is after the root issues and not just the surface and that is why it takes so long....

If you prayed about my husband to have those changes, then thank you! Thank you for the validation you have given me. I will continue to work on keeping my heart soft, that is important I know.. sometimes I get a little too angry. Thanks again!

HB

 

[hisbloodformysins]

People like this are manipulators (not trying to insult your grandmother, or anything). Because they are insecure, they will never acknowledge that they are wrong. They will always throw it back on someone else. They cry or pout and make you feel guilty, or do anything to make you question yourself and back off.

It's amazing how many people DO react that way! I even catch myself wanting to get angry with people who set boundaries with me... but now I'm trying to say in my heart "they have a right to live their lives how they want... and I need to pray for their blessings instead of hope for curses because they don't do things "my way"



HB

 

[hisbloodformysins]

How is your "boundary setting" not just YOU being "stubborn" and continuing YOUR "behavior"? In YOUR mind, aren't YOU thinking that the boundary setting will "force [HIM] to change [HIS] expectations"?

I am not trying to be mean, I really do not see how it isn't just the flipside of his actions. He thinks he is right; you think you are.

The difference between boundary setting and manipulation is that manipulation is an appearance of setting boundaries in an attempt to change someone else. However, boundary setting is doing something to protect yourself, regardless if the other person ever changes or not. I hope some day my husband has a change of heart, however I'm not expecting it.. know what I mean? His reaction is up to him... but i'm still standing up for myself where I feel it's appropriate. I am also seeking God regarding "my side" of the situation to see where "I" can help things.

HB

 

[Rembrandtfan]

Perhaps people who think boundaries are selfish should try reading the Boundaries book before concluding that it's unbiblical. When applied correctly, it is not promoting self-love. We have to be willing to respect other's boundaries in addition to asking them to respect ours. And it doesn't mean you ignore the needs of others, or that you never make sacrifices for others.

 

[hisbloodformysins]

Perhaps people who think boundaries are selfish should try reading the Boundaries book before concluding that it's unbiblical. When applied correctly, it is not promoting self-love. We have to be willing to respect other's boundaries in addition to asking them to respect ours. And it doesn't mean you ignore the needs of others, or that you never make sacrifices for others.

Yup, very true! You are right on bTW rembrandt

 

[Yitzchak]

I am signing off until later...this song ministers to me.....blessings to all my brothers and sisters.....

 

[mkgal1]

Aren’t Boundaries selfish?
​

No. Many people think that boundaries are about selfishness and are at their root, self-serving. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Boundaries are about freedom, and freedom is always meant to have, as it’s ultimate fruit, love. As Paul says, and we would echo to anyone who uses boundaries in a self-serving way.
You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." (Galatians 5:13,14)
Boundaries are about God’s restoring freedom to you and me so that we could take control of our lives to be able to love Him and others. Ultimately, that is the fruit of boundaries, to love out of freedom, and with purpose.

From The Simple Scoop on Boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud
​

 

[CuriousInIL]

How is your "boundary setting" not just YOU being "stubborn" and continuing YOUR "behavior"? In YOUR mind, aren't YOU thinking that the boundary setting will "force [HIM] to change [HIS] expectations"?

I am not trying to be mean, I really do not see how it isn't just the flipside of his actions. He thinks he is right; you think you are.

The difference between boundary setting and manipulation is that manipulation is an appearance of setting boundaries in an attempt to change someone else. However, boundary setting is doing something to protect yourself, regardless if the other person ever changes or not. I hope some day my husband has a change of heart, however I'm not expecting it.. know what I mean? His reaction is up to him... but i'm still standing up for myself where I feel it's appropriate. I am also seeking God regarding "my side" of the situation to see where "I" can help things.

HB

What happens though when a DH and a DW both set boundaries in such a way that there is then no common ground?

Say, for a "silly" example, the DH says I am not comfortable with deep kissing except during IC and sets a boundary regarding that and the DW says I am not comfortable with IC unless there is deep kissing first and so sets that boundary. How do they then proceed?

Seems like boundary setting needs to be subservient to--either up front or later--discussion and compromise.

 

[DIANAC]

No. Many people think that boundaries are about selfishness and are at their root, self-serving. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Boundaries are about freedom, and freedom is always meant to have, as it’s ultimate fruit, love. As Paul says, and we would echo to anyone who uses boundaries in a self-serving way.​

You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." (Galatians 5:13,14)​

Boundaries are about God’s restoring freedom to you and me so that we could take control of our lives to be able to love Him and others. Ultimately, that is the fruit of boundaries, to love out of freedom, and with purpose.​

From The Simple Scoop on Boundaries by Dr. Henry Cloud​

What does this mean? This is a misuse of scripture.



It says that boundaries give you freedom. Maybe this sounds good, but where does it say that in the bible?

John 8:31 Jesus said, "If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." ​

Teachings of Christ set us free, not boundaries. With this concept of boundaries we are not dealing with sin in our lives and the lives of others. We are just manipulating the circumstances such that we do not have to face our sin.​

 

[FaithfulWife]

I think all the folks discussing this (with the possible exception of Yitzak) are confusing "boundaries" with "controlling." Let me be as brief as possible.

"Boundaries" means what I will and will not allow in my life. Envision a little white picket fence around you. You have the right to decide who you will and will not allow in that white picket fence, and you have the right to decide the type of treatment you will and will not allow in that white picket fence. Thus, a boundary has nothing whatsoever to do with the other guy. A real boundary is all about me and what I will and will not allow to have access to me. A boundary CAN be self-centered and not take into account the needs, wants, desires of the other person--but more accurately, a HEALTHY boundary is about me and the kind of life and people I want to have around me. Healthy consequences have what I call "natural consequences" and that is not a punishment--it is the natural thing that occurs if the other person decides to break the boundary. A very real example of a perfect Godly boundary is that God the Father will only allow perfect, sinless people in His presence. [Please note that God does not say "You must be sinless." We were free to choose to be sinners and completely mess up (which we did) and the natural consequence of that is that now we can not be with God because of our sin.]

"Controlling" on the other hand is about the other guy. It's about setting rules for HIM/HER. It's about
telling other people what they can and can not do, and giving punishment under the guise of "consequences." Controlling is manipulation. Period. You are trying to use every trick in the book to get someone else to do something--and if they DON"T do it your way, they get punished. I'm sure you can all think of examples of control and manipulation.

Thus, let's talk through the example of the Godly boundary of "only perfect sinless beings can be in God's presence." This is His boundary. He is not being selfish to declare so--just establish what He is and is not willing to accept. Also, He does not force us to be sinless and perfect, not does He pull tricks to "make" us be sinless and perfect. We are completely free to be sinful and imperfect! But the natural consequence is that if we make that choice, then we are not able to be in God's presence.

NOW here comes the loving part that some many people mix up!!! It is NOT, NOT, NOT loving to someone to prevent them from experiencing the natural consequences of their personal choices. To do that actually keeps the person immature and irresponsible!! It is the Godly, loving thing to do to allow someone to make their choices, but then allow them to experience the consequence of the choice--good or bad. The natural consequence of disobeying God and marrying an unsaved man is pain and heartache as the family breaks up years later in a divorce. The natural consequence of chosing to OBEY God and marry a saved man is years of a happy, godly marriage! See the consequence thing? It's what naturally would occur!

If that were the end of it, then all of us would be condemned with no hope--because we ARE sinful and we CAN NOT be in God's presence. Here's the "Love like God" part. Note, that God does not say, "Well I just will ignore that part--no one has to pay that" because that is unjust! Same for us to say that our spouse does not have to experience the consequence of what THEY chose! It's unjust. Nope, in His LOVE, God provided a second chance--another way that also paid the consequence. So when it says in the Bible that we are to love as God loved us, it doesn't mean be a wishy-washy push over -OR- be a controlling manipulator to get your way. It means "allow the one you love to experience the consequence of what they chose, but offer them another way to make it right with you and come back to you." Does that make sense?

Let's get specific. In the instance of hisbloodformysins, it would NOT be a "boundary" for her to say to him: "You have to stop humping on me like a dog or I won't kiss you anymore." That is just controlling with punishment. See that? But it would be a "boundary" to say "I have decided that I want to have gentle, loving, caressing sexuality in my life and I don't want to have bumping and grinding sexuality. You are completely free to have whatever kind of sexuality you choose to have--I'm not nagging you about that anymore. But I have decided I will not be responsive to grabbing and groping and I will be VERY responsive to kissing, nuzzling, hugs and mutual touching that is gentle. " Then if he decides to be gropey, that is his decision. Cool. He can pick whatever he likes! But the result is a turned-off, unreceptive wife. If he wants a turned-on, receptive wife he is JUST as free to obtain that by choosing to do what you have decided to allow in your "boundary."

Can you see the difference?

Furthermore, he's bound to test it and make poor choices at first, etc. but just be consistent and to love him in a God-like way, give him a second chance/another way to get to you. If he blows it and then realizes he blew it and goes immediately to gentle touches, give him the solution of how he can "fix it." Men LOVE to "fix it" so if there is some way he can make the mistake, realize it, and then have you go, "Honey, that really violated my boundary. Thus I will need a walk for about 15 minutes to mellow out and get my head into a place where I might be able to be in the mood again. It would be REALLY helpful to getting myself ready if all the candles were lit when I came back."

Once again--can you see the difference between the respectful request of lighting candles (He has the freedom to choose to do it or not) and "making" him light candles in order to "make it up to you" and "making" him do it your way? One way, he is completely free to be an ape about sex if that's what he chooses to be, and he can jump around and be all whatever! The natural consequence is that he is choosing to have a wife that is not able to get turned-on. The OTHER way, he is forced to do it YOUR way or else he's punished with "not getting any" or "having to make up for it" and never really ever catching up or even being ahead.

Hope this helps! "Boundaries" are not about telling the other guy what they can and can not do. "Boundaries" are about YOU!


~Faithful