Seriously?

[joshua 1 9]

You are right, I am confused! I should have directed that to @joshua 1 9 I apologise. Sorry about that. You were simply defending and not attacking. My bad.

If you reject the precious blood of Jesus then you are the one that is derailed not me.

 

[throughfiierytrial]

Almost every religion describes some type of fall situation but it is not described as stretching through the whole universe just mankind on our little planet. What we have is a very rare occurence, perhaps one in infinity. An administrative angel was proud and thrown down to the earth, where it proceeded to cause harm to other people in its effort to continue its quarrel with God Almighty. What God has shown is that He has no problem giving Himself for others, and our planet is now an example to all of heaven (which probably is much much larger) of just how much all creation depends on His grace, no matter the heights to which He lifts His us closer to Him. We aren't just gaining eternal life here, Jesus is in a very high position before all creation with the Father. The question is can You have a relationship with God without Jesus? Have you tried? The Father has shown me how sin seperates us from Him. The point is that God wants the most children possible from a situation that is unfair to Him and He hasn't left us as orphans but has indeed sent His spirit.

John 15:26 “When the Helper h comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me, [27] 27 and i you will testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning."

1 John 4:10 "In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. [11] Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. [12] No one has seen God at any time; if we love one another, God abides in us, and His love is perfected in us. [13] By this we know that we abide in Him and He in us, because He has given us of His Spirit. [14] We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world. [15] Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God. [16] We have come to know and have believed the love which God has for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. [17] By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. [18] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love. [19] We love, because He first loved us. [20] If someone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother whom he has seen, cannot love God whom he has not seen. [21] And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God should love his brother also.

Look at how unfair the world is to the majority of humanity. This world is evil becuase we are suppose to seek out God's will from our own heart in preparation of being His angels or children. Isn't this how 70% of mankind today is poor and unjustly governed? Isn't that how the priest class of Israel were jelous of our Lord Jesus and wrongfully condemned Him to execution even though He alone is in union with God. Where the world rejects Him, we receive Him, and so the Father holds us within His blameless Life, and He Himself was Life and Light.

Just pray and meditate of Jesus' words!

Acts 13 "And we preach to you the good news of the promise made to the fathers, [33] that God has fulfilled this promise to h our children in that He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, ‘ You are My Son; today i have begotten You .’

 

[bling]

Sorry I missed this.

This is a far cry from what we are usually told by evangelicals; that the garden was a paradise and that the fall should not have happened. This is why it's so hard to debate here; there are numerous Christianities.

The Garden was a Paradise on earth, but that is not what man needed to fulfill his earthly objective.

The Bible never calls it a “fall” and it is tragic man needed it to happen.

What does this even mean? What "objective"?



Inevitable and necessary? What happened to free will? This is a far cry from what the first poster who responded said. Who's right?

If there is this eternal intelligence it would be at the epitome of the best it could be and not in the process of improvement. It would be the ultimate bad or good but not somewhere in-between. Why be bad when He can be good just as easily? The ultimate “good” would be what is called Godly type Love (to be defined later) and is totally unselfish type Love. Since this God would be able to direct our thinking, why would He have us think of him as being totally bad, when He could make us think bad was good and thus He would be worthy of praise? If God were bad and we praise a “Good God” than we are not praising Him.


The reason you have free will is because it is required for you to complete your earthly objective.

This messed up world is not here for your pleasure, but to help you become like God Himself in that you have the unique, unbelievable Godly type Love (God himself is Love).

God has created beings to shower them with the greatest gifts possible, the greatest being having a Love like His.

If there is this Creator of the universe out there, His “creations” could not really “do” anything for Him, so this Creator would have to be seen as a Giver (Unselfish Lover) and not trying to “get” something from His creation.

Why would God have a totally unselfish type of Love, since He personally would not get anything out of it? If God’s “Love” is some kind of knee jerk reaction, then it is really meaningless (something like; gravity which is nice to have, but everyone automatically has it). God Loves us in spite of what we have done, who we are or what we will do, so it has to be by His choice.


So God would create the right universe for the sake of the individuals that will accept His gift (the most powerful force in all universes, since that force compels even God to do all He does) and thus we become like He is (the greatest gift He could give).

What keeps the all-powerful Creator from just giving whatever He wants to his creation, eliminating the need for free will and this earthly time:

There are just something even an all-powerful Creator cannot do (there are things impossible to do), the big inability for us is create humans with instinctive Godly type Love, since Godly type Love is not instinctive. Godly type love has to be the result of a free will decision by the being, to make it the person’s Love apart from God. In other words: If the Love was in a human from the human’s creation it would be a robotic type love and not a Godly type Love. Also if God “forces” this Love on a person (Kind a like a shotgun wedding) it would not be “loving” on God’s part and the love forced on the person would not be Godly type love. This Love has to be the result of a free will moral choice with real alternatives (for humans those alternatives include the perceived pleasures of sin for a season.)


This Love is way beyond anything humans could develop, obtain, learn, earn, pay back or even deserve, so it must be the result of a gift that is accepted or rejected (a free will choice).


An unselfish God would be doing all He can to help willing individuals to make that free will decision to accept His Love. Again, since God will not be forcing these individuals, they have to be willing (it is their choice) and God cannot “make” them willing since that is robotic action. God can only at best make them free will agent (like God is) and capable of make the right decision without the selection being worthy of anything (it is a gift of pure charity).


This “Love” is much more than just an emotional feeling; it is God Himself (God is Love). If you see this Love you see God.


Let me just give you an example of How God works to help willing individuals.


All mature adults do stuff that hurts others (this is called sin) these transgressions weigh on them burden them to the point the individual seeks relief (at least early on before they allow their hearts to be hardened). Lots of “alternatives” can be tried for relief, but the only true relief comes from God with forgiveness (this forgiveness is pure charity [grace/mercy/Love]). The correct humble acceptance of this Forgiveness (Charity) automatically will result in Love (we are taught by Jesus and our own experience “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…”). Sin is thus made hugely significant, so there will be an unbelievable huge debt to be forgiven of and thus result in an unbelievable huge “Love” (Godly type Love).

What do we need to be forgiven for? If sin was necessary, haven't we done our job?

Minor falls while learning to ride a bike are inevitable and to be expected and maybe even necessary for at least some, but they are not desirable or the objective. Sin seems to be necessary for all of us but it is not desired and is not the end objective.