Seriously?

brinny · Feb 18, 2017

My dear friend, i say this lovingly......(you are such a joy here on CF)

have you read Genesis?

(more to follow.....i just want you to chomp on that for a while).

AlexDTX · Feb 18, 2017

He gave the first man and woman paradise. There was no suffering, and all they needed was for the taking. The Creator warned them not to eat of only one tree and warned them they would die if they did so. When they ate of that fruit, their actions showed that they did not believe God that they would die. The question is why did God create that tree in the first place? I believe it was because He had to prove that they were alive and separate from Him. If they had no choice, then they were merely robots, but they were not. One must also assume that they understood what death meant, otherwise it would have been unjust of God to warn them of something they could not understand.

I understand the struggle. We were not there in the garden. But the truth is, we were. For all mankind are recreations of those first two people in various new forms. This is understood to be the sin nature, but is also called human nature. This is not the nature God created in mankind, but is a nature morphed by the decision of the first two people that we all inherit since we are recreations of them.

The good news of the Gospel is that God took the consequence of that nature upon Himself when He became the human being, Jesus, on the cross and dealt with that problem. Anyone who admits that they have that nature, which is admitting that we have done wrong, and believes the good news, can have their old nature replaced with His divine nature. That does not mean we are totally transformed yet in this life. But our spirits are transformed so that we have communion with God directly.

God does not automatically change all mankind with the Gospel because the first reason for the tree remains. He gives us the choice. Those who want it will take it, but those who prefer their living death may remain in that condition. It is your choice.

rockytopva · Feb 18, 2017

Before the Big Bang - There dwelt...

1. The God head - Father, Son, and Holy Ghost
2. Three groups of angels...
___a. Michael - Strong Angels
___b. Gabriel - Wise Angels
___c. Lucifer - Worshiping angels -

I believe that the creation of this universe is in response to Lucifer's fall.

And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: - Revelation 12:4

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:- Isaiah 14:12

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. - Revelation 12

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! - Isaiah 14:12

Lucifer - heylel in the Hebrew (light bearer) from halal - Or to shine
***Note as this is a Hebrew word it is not a king of Babylon

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. - Revelation 12:17

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. - Jude 1:6

So, now, we have vacated heavens. The creation of this universe was in response to Lucifer's fall. God created man to replace Lucifer's vacated position and the fallen angels vacated estates. They know this and war with us over their old toys.

God created man to replace Lucifer's third. He could have just created the third and placed them in heaven. Why not created this present universe and earth and provide a way for us humans to rise to the level of the vacated third? As we have suffering in this life, so we will much more appreciate heaven once we get there.

DingDing · Feb 18, 2017

Yea, I agree it is not easy, but here is how I view it. God, as God, is the only perfect being, but He desires a relationship with others which He will create. He creates these beings with His own ability to make free choices (aka, free-will). These created beings, though, do not have God's infinite ability to always make the correct (right) choices. As such, they are imperfect and such, will eventually "fall".

So, the Infinite God, who desires a relationship with created beings, knows that for the relationship He desires, much effort will have to put forth by both parties - His and theirs. He knows that they will not always make the right decisions - they will abuse the gift of free-will. And He knows that it will cost Himself greatly - to make a way of reconciliation between Himself and those He desires. To illustrate to the whole world how much this desire and reconciliation costs Him, He comes to earth in the form of a sinless man and is torture and crucified. This illustrates His love for us. He wants a relationship with created beings, but the kind of relationship He desires is not with robots, but with real beings who are imperfect and who will and have chosen wrongly. There is going to be pain on both sides - but for those who likewise long for the relationship with their Maker, it is worth it.

dqhall · Feb 18, 2017

Some have given hymns of praise and prayers of thanksgiving. What have you done lately? If you can make this world great again, have at it. Give it your best try. Will others remember you for what you gave or for what you took?

YouAreAwesome · Feb 18, 2017

I personally believe the creation process was sabotaged by Satan. We don't know much about Satan from the bible but we do know what Jesus said to the judgmental religious people about the devil "You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies." (John 8:44). We learn a few things here. One, a human can belong to a kingdom of the devil. But more important to your question, two, the devil was a murderer from the beginning. Now we are not told when he started murdering or who he murdered but it is my belief that he started influencing the creation to murder from the beginning of the evolution of life. (I can provide more biblical basis for this belief if you would like).

I guess I should also say that I believe the Garden of Eden was a spiritual dominion over a small area of the earth and that within this "heaven-like" area mankind was given a special awareness regarding life that made them more similar to God than the rest of creation. God gave mankind the purpose of extending the boundary of the Garden of Eden so it would cover the whole earth and in doing so would cast out the devil from his influence over the earth. However mankind became casualties of war and God Himself then came to rescue them.

Hope that makes some sense, I believe it is biblical and I hope it answers your question.

Cheers.

pat34lee · Feb 18, 2017

Are you perfect? None of us are today. God gave us our best chance by creating a perfect person and testing him. He was only given one law and the choice to obey or disobey. If Adam fell, anyone would fall. Only one person in all history lived and chose never to sin, and that was Jesus.

pat34lee · Feb 18, 2017

..
double post

PropheticTimes · Feb 18, 2017

It was not originally filled with suffering, it was never intended to be the way it is now. We (humankind) were created in Paradise, the Garden of Eden, and the "norm of existence" was companionship with the Creator.

In Adam and Eve's disobedience (eating of the forbidden fruit), they 'died' (spiritually), bringing sin on themselves and all humankind to come, and sin always leads to death (spiritual). Jesus, the Son of God, came to earth, born of a woman and of the Holy Spirit, fully man, fully God (if that's hard to wrap your head around it right now that's ok, just roll with it), to live the perfect life we could never live since the fall (the disobedience in the garden), and to die the most awful, horrible death around at that time (if you don't know what happens during a crucifixion, look it up, it's a wretched death) so that He Himself became the perfect sacrifice, to cover all sin from all time to those who will accept His sacrifice.

God suffered more than anyone at the hands of His creation so that, in His perfect justice, we could be reconciled to Him and once again live in companionship with Him, not just when we die, but here on earth. He did it because He loves you, not the way humans love, but with a divine love we could never truly fathom in this life.

Does that help at all?

PropheticTimes · Feb 18, 2017

maybe this will help a little -

Calvinist Dark Lord · Feb 18, 2017

As you said, it was a guess. The issue you want to contemplate is whether or not the guess is accurate.

(Hint: it's not)

kimberlyw · Feb 18, 2017

Maybe I'm simple and stupid but to me, if I love God, Yahweh And Jesus or Jeshua, I simply Trust, no matter the question fear or thoughts, we aren't smart enough. So I simply Trust with Faith. We Must Keep Faith..... priceless.

PropheticTimes · Feb 18, 2017

please keep in mind, he is a seeker, so his questions should be taken in that context and answered lovingly and with compassion

we are called to let our light shine, to guide others who are as lost as we once were, home

John Hyperspace · Feb 18, 2017

I would propose that if you are struggling with a doctrine that makes no sense, then you are struggling with a false doctrine being caused by men reading the scripture (or, actually, reading a translation of scripture), using some of the worst possible reasoning, and drawing a senseless interpretation of scripture through the senseless minds, and then telling other people that their senseless understanding is the truth of the scripture. In turn we have thousands of senseless doctrines being promoted as the truth, causing senseless division among the Christians, and also being the cause of the unbelief in the world since most people won't believe that which is senseless.

littlebopeek · Feb 18, 2017

I used to feel this way and as a veterinarian, my entire profession is based around liking animals more than people most of the time. I'm also very distraught by humans destroying each other and this beautiful earth. But studying the bible has helped me have sympathy and understanding for what is happening in the world and hope for the future. If the world weren't becoming SO terrible, i hate to say it, but - the bible prophecies wouldn't be accurate and the whole thing would be a house of cards. Which - it's really not. Searching the WORD for answers and not the WORLD is a difficult thing itself Ecclesiastes 1:18 but if we do, we can also find a lot of comfort and peace Here are some scriptures that help me when I struggle with how awful the world is today and that the awfulness is almost exclusively caused by people. I got a little carried away ....i just love God's word so much, this turned into my personal study for the day. Forgive me

Genesis 6:5-7 - Even God felt as you did and almost gave up on us completely. So He understands that we will sometimes feel the same way...
2 Samuel 12:1-6 - as an animal lover, this story breaks my heart - as it's supposed to. It moved David - and it showed how deeply a lack of compassion can hurt both us and God
Psalms 34:14-19

Proverbs 3:13-32

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 - this is one of the most profound scriptures for me because it literally means that our PURPOSE in life is to worship - preferably God/Christ, but -when i meditate on this, it is so clear that it is ingrained in the human condition to the point that if people DON'T do this in a healthy way, they find something else to worship...money, sex, material possessions...or they numb the need with alcohol, drugs, sex, money, material possessions. For me, this was like a weight lifting off - when i "got" this, I could let go of that intense NEED to search for the meaning of life. It had finally been put into words, what I had always felt inside and I could let go and start trying to draw close to Christ and coming to know His Father and that can bring a comfort no drug or car or achievement or fleeting success ever can. I know much of the NT changed people's lives, but this scripture changed mine in that I was always searching, desperate to find the meaning/purpose in life. This scripture right here is what ALLOWED me to take the steps to want to draw close to God, that helped me understand it was not only important, it was the entire point of life itself.
Isaiah 2:4-4 - it won't always be like this....
Isaiah 41:10 - but while it is, He is with us
Matthew 5:23-24 - make peace with others so you can make peace with God
Matthew 6:25-34 - try not to worry
Matthew 24:4-22 - not what we usually consider encouraging but comforting in that it helps explain WHY things are getting so bad and have confidence that Christ knew we would suffer more because of it. And that there is a hope for the future...
Luke 6:22-38 - try to take the high ground
Luke 15:7 - keep praying for them
Luke 21:34-36 - try not to get too down, it can become a difficult burden to bear and can lead to turning away from God in despair
John 3:16-21 - so when you DO get down, meditate on this

John 15:17-19 - there will always be people who suck, love everyone anyways
Romans 1:22-25 - sums up a lot of people right there God knows our hearts, there are some who will always turn away
Romans 8:18-25. Romans is one of my favorite books Verses 24 and 25 always get me - "For we were saved in this hope; but hope that is seen is not hope, for when a man sees a thing, does he hope for it? But if we hope for what we do not see, we keep eagerly waiting for it with endurance." Keep the faith
2 Corinthians 4:3-4 - lets us know what's wrong with people and whose influence they are under!!!
2 Corinthians 11:14-15 - also insight into why people suck...
Ephesians 4:31-32, Ephesians 5:1-2 - what we are supposed to be doing
Colossians 3:12-17 - same as Ephesians
2 Timothy 3:1-7 - another confirmation from God that many people are not following His direction and that they don't even want to
James 4:7-8 - but we can choose to draw close to God, and He will draw close to us.
1 John 5:19 - again, keep praying for everyone, Satan is trying HARD to get us all

Revelation 18:4-11 - it won't last forever
Revelation 21:1-4 - and it will all be ok again. We will be in union with God forever

hee hee....ok bye!!!

Your Alli · Feb 18, 2017

The whole concept of suffering is for those, who have not accept that Christ whose earthly name is Jesus, is Christ the Lord.

Once the Lord is not understood to be Christ, for He can hold the scroll given to us by Moses from God with the commandments beginning with ...
"I am the Lord your God "
"Don't take ..."

"Don't covet ..."

Only Christ whose earthly name is Jesus, fulfilled these commandments from God to be "The Lord" so no other human would endure the task given to Him by The Father.

Humanity hasn't accepted such a revelation, so suffering follows.

Those that acknowledge Him, (Christ) is Lord.

Healing abounds.

Your Alli

Laureate · Feb 18, 2017

Trust without doubt that our Father is Love it self, and that we all rest in his hands, this is the Mustard Seed Faith of a Child that can move Mountains, and cast out demons (when needed).

This is where true personal faith begins, yet not everyone is born into this world with that luxury, and for them it is sometimes difficult to attain unto, and many who are born into this world with your luxury of faith, find it difficult to retain, or rediscover without the Word and Spirit of the Father.

Leevo · Feb 18, 2017

God planted us into a perfect Universe, we screwed it up.

fide · Feb 18, 2017

Then why do so many people, by the own choices now, make other people suffer? Like murderers, thieves, liars, cheats, adulterers, and so on. Maybe when we realize that our sin hurts the innocent around us, maybe then we will realize how much the sin of our father Adam hurt God.

We were made for love,and love is kind. We were made for truth, and truth is real - and kind. But Adam decided to do what HE preferred, and the whole creation suffers now.

The point is, God is saying something: "Wake up! Sin hurts - it hurts others, and it hurts you yourself." Or as they said in the days of old, "Repent!"

aiki · Feb 18, 2017

Blind post.

As you've written it, I can see why your version of events leaves you struggling.

The Bible doesn't say God planted humanity in a universe filled with suffering. God's creation was "very good" which means, in part, that it was not initially fouled with the suffering, corruption and death that the Fall introduced into it. What pain and death mars the world now is the fault of wicked humans, not a nasty-minded Creator.

We do need God's forgiveness. It's His universe we're in and His rules that govern it. We violate His moral rules all the time, however; often with no compunction whatever. So, yeah, God is offended - and rightly so.

Selah.

Seriously?

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