Seriously?

[BubbaJack]

Let me guess this straight. God creates us, plants us in a universe that is so filled with suffering that its the norm of existence. Then he tells us that we have wronged Him, and that we need his forgiveness?

Really struggling with this....

 

[SkyWriting]

Let me guess this straight. God creates us, plants us in a universe that is so filled with suffering that its the norm of existence. Then he tells us that we have wronged Him, and that we need his forgiveness?Really struggling with this....

God Created man in a garden paradise.
Man chose to follow his own rules and
was kicked out of the garden.

If you choose to return to God, he will
grant you what He had intended for you.

Otherwise, you will still get eternity
but no company.

Jesus had to die at the hands of man
for this to even be an option for you.

Are you enjoying life without God now?
Alcohol is bad for your organs by the way.
Heroin is an option.

 

[CrystalDragon]

God Created man is a garden paradise.
Man chose to follow his own rules and
was kicked out of the garden.

If you choose to return to God, he will
grant you what He had intended for you.

Otherwise, you will still get eternity
but no company.

"Man" was just curious. Curiosity drives people to do things that they might regret later. And because they by default were ignorant of good and evil, Adam and Eve can't have truly known the consequences (if the Garden of Eden was perfect with no death how could they even know what it might have meant?)

 

[SkyWriting]

"Man" was just curious. Curiosity drives people to do things that they might regret later. And because they by default were ignorant of good and evil, Adam and Eve can't have truly known the consequences (if the Garden of Eden was perfect with no death how could they even know what it might have meant?)

Hmm....You are going to argue with story
about what actually happened?

So you accept the premise of Eden
but not the words written.

No point in trying to pass the blame.
But, it's not actually an issue.
Freedom of choice is the key to true love.
A billion robot worshipers is not what anyone would enjoy.

Who doesn't like being around people
who want to be around you?
Rather in Hell, you get nobody.

 

[BubbaJack]

God Created man in a garden paradise.
Man chose to follow his own rules and
was kicked out of the garden.

I don't remember doing this.

If you choose to return to God, he will
grant you what He had intended for you.

Otherwise, you will still get eternity
but no company.

Yes, this is the Christian message. But it really doesn't address my OP.

Jesus had to die at the hands of man
for this to even be an option for you.

Are you enjoying life without God now?
Alcohol is bad for your organs by the way.
Heroin is an option.

 

[brightlights]

Let me guess this straight. God creates us, plants us in a universe that is so filled with suffering that its the norm of existence. Then he tells us that we have wronged Him, and that we need his forgiveness?

Really struggling with this....

God has blessed us with life.

Do you not like life? Would you rather God discontinue preserving your life?

And yes we sin against him every day.

Do you ever violate your own ethical code? Do you ever violate the standards that you hold other people to?

 

[ronandcarol]

Let me guess this straight. God creates us, plants us in a universe that is so filled with suffering that its the norm of existence. Then he tells us that we have wronged Him, and that we need his forgiveness?
Really struggling with this....

God created man in His image, meaning we were created to be loving, kind, caring people who worshiped our creator and lived Holy Lives. BUT, He also gave us free-will. and Adam and Eve used that free-will to not trust God, and brought sin into the world. Reading further in the Bible you will see that we were expelled from Paradise and left to till the soil for our existence. God did not place us in a sin filled world, He placed us in Paradise. We chose to leave that Paradise and go and live in the world. BUT, Jesus has given us a way to get back in that Paradise by placing our faith and trust in Him as our Lord and Savior.

ronandcarol

 

[SkyWriting]

I don't remember doing this.
Yes, this is the Christian message. But it really doesn't address my OP.

Point by point.

1. God creates us,
2. plants us in a universe that is so filled with suffering that its the norm of existence.
3. Then he tells us that we have wronged Him,
4. and that we need his forgiveness?

1 yes
2. No, He Created a perfect garden
3. No. Adam did go against God's one and only rule.
3. Yes we did.
4. Only if you want to get back with Him.

1,2,3,3,4

 

[SkyWriting]

I don't remember doing this.

Adam did it, and the kids all suffer the result.
Even creation suffers....you being blessed with
that as a gift.

 

[BubbaJack]

Adam did it, and the kids all suffer the result.
Even creation suffers....you being blessed with
that as a gift.

Doesn't seem right, suffering because of something some other person did.

 

[BubbaJack]

2. No, He Created a perfect garden

I don't remember any garden.

3. No. Adam did go against God's one and only rule.

I'm not Adam.

3. Yes we did.

How?

4. Only if you want to get back with Him.

I don't even know what that means. "Get back with him"?

 

[BubbaJack]

God created man in His image, meaning we were created to be loving, kind, caring people who worshiped our creator and lived Holy Lives. BUT, He also gave us free-will. and Adam and Eve used that free-will to not trust God, and brought sin into the world. Reading further in the Bible you will see that we were expelled from Paradise and left to till the soil for our existence. God did not place us in a sin filled world, He placed us in Paradise. We chose to leave that Paradise and go and live in the world. BUT, Jesus has given us a way to get back in that Paradise by placing our faith and trust in Him as our Lord and Savior.

ronandcarol

I was never in any "paradise". I did not "choose" anything.

 

[bling]

Let me guess this straight. God creates us, plants us in a universe that is so filled with suffering that its the norm of existence. Then he tells us that we have wronged Him, and that we need his forgiveness?

Really struggling with this....

I think you have been told a lot of unsupported ideas, so far.

One of the reasons God first putting man in the Garden was to show: how lousy (impossible) a place it was for humans to fulfill their earthly objective, but it also shows us where God would like us to be and that there would be a heaven for us after we fulfill our objective.

This messed up; tragic filled world is actually the best place for willing individuals to fulfill their earthly objective.

Sin is both inevitable and necessary, to help mature adults fulfill their earthly objective.

Sin is not the problem, but unforgiven sin can be a huge problem.

Ask questions from what I said if you would like to go on.

 

[BubbaJack]

One of the reasons God first putting man in the Garden was to show: how lousy (impossible) a place it was for humans to fulfill their earthly objective, but it also shows us where God would like us to be and that there would be a heaven for us after we fulfill our objective.

This is a far cry from what we are usually told by evangelicals; that the garden was a paradise and that the fall should not have happened. This is why it's so hard to debate here; there are numerous Christianities.

This messed up; tragic filled world is actually the best place for willing individuals to fulfill their earthly objective.

What does this even mean? What "objective"?

Sin is both inevitable and necessary, to help mature adults fulfill their earthly objective.

Inevitable and necessary? What happened to free will? This is a far cry from what the first poster who responded said. Who's right?

Sin is not the problem, but unforgiven sin can be a huge problem.

What do we need to be forgiven for? If sin was necessary, haven't we done our job?

 

[tansy]

Doesn't seem right, suffering because of something some other person did.

We very often suffer because of what other people do (and because of things we do as well, of course). So it's like the first people (Adam and Eve in Genesis) started a chain of events in a way.
That's why Jesus Christ had to come and live as we do, overcoming all temptation and laying down his life for us. He defeated evil and death (he was resurrected), for our forgiveness, redemption and healing. Being God incarnate, he is the only person able to do that, and in him, we are able to progress to a complete and whole relationship with God ultimately.
Yes, we still suffer in this world, but in these sufferings we can become more and more conformed to Christ and eventually be perfected (through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit).
This is far from being a full explanation, but other people can probably put things over better than I can

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[Serving Zion]

I don't remember doing this.

Doesn't seem right, suffering because of something some other person did.

I was never in any "paradise". I did not "choose" anything.

Brother, wow, Hi There!!

Yep, I know where you are coming from. What I say to you, is discern the wheat from the tares. Does a man gather figs from a thorn bush?

Jesus Christ sang high praises for children (Matthew 18:3, Matthew 18:10 and Matthew 19:14). In fact, He never took an issue up with children, did He? The only ones He ever condemned were the grown-ups who were religiously taught, or who were exploiting religion, such as the temple dealers.

Listen to this: There comes a time when children begin to ask questions about the world that makes a grown up uncomfortable. Because the children have nothing of the sin in their heart that is in the world, they are trying to figure out what the world is like. Some of their conclusions have convicting judgements toward the grown-ups (but the children don't know it - the grown-up's conscience is convicting them).

So the grown-ups find this to be intolerable and begin to work words to change the child's mind, so they would assimilate to the world. The grown-ups want to extinguish the righteous indignation that puts the grown-ups to shame, and they do this by training the child to become unrighteous. But it's not only the grown-ups that do this, because sin is an infectious disease. Once the kids around us begin to suffer the righteous indignation, they all act in likewise manner to try and snuff-out the flame (John 15:18-19). This is how all have come to be sinners, as in Romans 5:12.

So think back on your childhood. You were once full of joy and chasing butterflies. Can you see what happened to you that made you begin to guard your heart?

 

[BubbaJack]

Yep, I know where you are coming from. What I say to you, is discern the wheat from the tares. Does a man gather figs from a thorn bush?

Not anyone I know. But we didn't grow figs in Georgia.

So think back on your childhood. You were once full of joy and chasing butterflies. Can you see what happened to you that made you begin to guard your heart?

Other people. I really hate other people.

 

[food4thought]

Let me guess this straight. God creates us, plants us in a universe that is so filled with suffering that its the norm of existence. Then he tells us that we have wronged Him, and that we need his forgiveness?

Really struggling with this....

Hi BubbaJack. I understand your struggle. The world is full of suffering largely because people do not love one another the way God commands us to (Matthew 22:39)... this is a great sin and we are all guilty of it to some degree, therefore God is just in bringing judgment upon us. The world could be a glorious place full of peace and joy if we all loved one another, but none of us consistently do, therefore the world is full of suffering and misery. No big mystery, man.

 

[food4thought]

• 
  

  Other people. I really hate other people.

  And that, in a nutshell, is the problem.