Sending atheists to Hell is Evil

[ThinkForYourself]

I've seen a lot of NDE's of atheists who met Him just before they died. One guy met God and said the sinner's prayer in his last moments because his mother prayed. Not praying for atheists and not stretching out for miracles like legs growing out is evil.

I can't imagine myself doing that. I'm not afraid of death, I've had a good life, no complaints.

And according to God's word, God is going to eternally torture me for the crime of not believing. Does that sound moral to you?

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yhvh is Perfect, and the Torah is Perfect. people are failures.


don't worry about spending eternity in hell- that's a mistranslation easily corrected if you would bother to look up the Hebrew sources. (you don't have to, but it is easy to dispel that particular incorrect and inaccurate fear if you do)

the fearful, liars, thieves, adulterers, idolators, sorcerers, greedy, etc etc etc are simply done away with - POOF! - gone in the LAKE OF FIRE consumed once for all time/eternity/ .... (sorry to all those who like me were taught in error at first. don't worry though, you don't have to change what you believe if you don't want to; no one can make you change, not even Yhvh the Creator - He lets people decide to do right or wrong for themselves, wanting living children/offspring - not wanting robots to serve Him)

I can't imagine myself doing that. I'm not afraid of death, I've had a good life, no complaints.

And according to God's word, God is going to eternally torture me for the crime of not believing. Does that sound moral to you?

 

[ThinkForYourself]

Yhvh is Perfect, and the Torah is Perfect. people are failures.

don't worry about spending eternity in hell- that's a mistranslation easily corrected if you would bother to look up the Hebrew sources. (you don't have to, but it is easy to dispel that particular incorrect and inaccurate fear if you do)

the fearful, liars, thieves, adulterers, idolators, sorcerers, greedy, etc etc etc are simply done away with - POOF! - gone in the LAKE OF FIRE consumed once for all time/eternity/ .... (sorry to all those who like me were taught in error at first. don't worry though, you don't have to change what you believe if you don't want to; no one can make you change, not even Yhvh the Creator - He lets people decide to do right or wrong for themselves, wanting living children/offspring - not wanting robots to serve Him)

So is the bible not the word of God, and thus perfect?

And if not, does that mean all the people on this forum who have a close personal relationship with God, and God has told them that the bible is His word, are delusional? Or is God lying to them?

 

[juvenissun]

I'm an atheist, and according to the bible I am going to Hell.

Why would God torture me for all eternity for something I have no control over?

There are compounded mistakes and misconceptions in your thoughts. I can only one at a time:

You DO have a full control, and God will never torture you anywhere at anytime.

Sigh! Even in this one sentence, there are multiple misconceptions. What a doctrine says is much more than just a common sense.

 

[juvenissun]

I can't imagine myself doing that. I'm not afraid of death, I've had a good life, no complaints.

And according to God's word, God is going to eternally torture me for the crime of not believing. Does that sound moral to you?

God NEVER says that. I challenge you to find what you said in the Bible.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

There are compounded mistakes and misconceptions in your thoughts. I can only one at a time:

You DO have a full control, and God will never torture you anywhere at anytime.

Sigh! Even in this one sentence, there are multiple misconceptions. What a doctrine says is much more than just a common sense.

The bible is very clear in Revelation 12:8 (I think). Unbelievers go to Hell, to be tortured forever.

And I do not have control of what I believe. Could you make yourself sincerely believe there are pink unicorns orbiting the earth?

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

Except that the verse uses the adjective aionios, and that very same adjective is used in the very same verse, to mean " eternal life." It is also used elsewhere in the New Testament, as well as the Septuagint, to mean "everlasting God."

Revisionism rules. OK.

Matthew 25:46 - “Aionian” or “Eternal”

Matthew 25:46 - “Aionian” or “Eternal”
by Ken Eckerty[FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

Most Christians who believe in the doctrine of never-ending punishments base this on several passages in the New Testament that seem to speak of punishment in terms of “eternity.” Some of these passages include 2 Thes. 1:9, Rev. 14:11, and Rev. 20:10-15. However, the conclusion that God will torment most men forever is primarily based on a faulty understanding of the meaning of the Greek words “aion” and “aionios.” Unfortunately, most of our English Bibles do not accurately translate these words, and as a result, the doctrine of “eternal” hell continues to thrive in the midst of the organized church. Let’s take a look at both of these words and see how most Christians have misapplied them.
“Aion”

The Greek noun “aion” literally means “an age” or “an indeterminate period of time.” Hebrews 1:2 tells us that “God made the ages,” and the Apostle Paul tells us that there was a state of existence BEFORE the ages (1 Cor. 2:7) and that the ages will END. (1 Cor. 10:11) Clearly, if something begins and ends, it cannot be unending.


Olethron Aionion (eternal destruction)

[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Times New Roman][SIZE=+1]'Aion, transliterated aeon, is a period of longer or shorter duration, having a beginning and an end, and complete in itself. Aristotle (peri ouravou, i. 9,15) says: "The period which includes the whole time of one's life is called the aeon of each one." Hence it often means the life of a man, as in Homer, where one's life (aion) is said to leave him or to consume away (Iliad v. 685; Odyssey v. 160). It is not, however, limited to human life; it signifies any period in the course of events, as the period or age before Christ; the period of the millenium; the mythological period before the beginnings of history. The word has not "a stationary and mechanical value" (De Quincey). It does not mean a period of a fixed length for all cases. There are as many aeons as entities, the respective durations of which are fixed by the normal conditions of the several entities. There is one aeon of a human life, another of the life of a nation, another of a crow's life, another of an oak's life. The length of the aeon depends on the subject to which it is attached.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Times New Roman][SIZE=+1]It is sometimes translated world; world represents a period or a series of periods of time. See Matt 12:32; 13:40,49; Luke 1:70; 1 Cor 1:20; 2:6; Eph 1:21. Similarly oi aiones, the worlds, the universe, the aggregate of the ages or periods, and their contents which are included in the duration of the world. 1 Cor 2:7; 10:11; Heb 1:2; 9:26; 11:3. The word always carries the notion of time, and not of eternity. It always means a period of time. Otherwise it would be impossible to account for the plural, or for such qualifying expressions as this age, or the age to come. It does not mean something endless or everlasting. To deduce that meaning from its relation to aei is absurd; for, apart from the fact that the meaning of a word is not definitely fixed by its derivation, aei does not signify endless duration. [/SIZE][/FONT]

http://www.tentmaker.org/articles/Matthew-25-46-Commentary-Amirault.htmlIf Everlasting Punishment is not Eternal then how can Life be Eternal? (Matthew 25:46)

Matthew 25:46 Commentary - By Gary Amirault

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Does Eternal Punishment have to be as long as Eternal life because the adjective “aionios” is used to describe both punishment and life?[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](A short synopsis of this article: The following article proves that “everlasting punishment” in Matthew 25:46 is a MIStranslation in many of the current leading selling English Bible translations including the King James Version, New International Standard Version, New American Standard Version, New Revised Standard Version, the Amplified Bible, The Net Bible, New Century Version, New Living Translation, International Standard Version, English Standard Version as well as many others. There are several translations, however, some of which are listed at the end of this article, which do NOT make this mistake. This correction is crucial in regards to having a proper understanding of the nature and character of God and His role as judge. Just because “aionios” is used to describe life and punishment, does not mean they have to be of the same length and quality any more than a “small” house has to be the same size as a “small” ring because the same adjective is used to describe both. Often adjectives take on some of the value of the word they describe. Therefore, “kolasin aionion” (mistranslated “everlasting punishment”) does not have to be the same length as “zoen aionion” (mistranslated “eternal life”). Aionion should not have been translated “everlasting” because aion and its adjective are clearly time words that have beginnings and endings. And “punishment” for the Greek “kolasin” is too strong a word. Kolasin means “to prune a tree to make it more fruitful.” [/FONT]

 

[Smidlee]

Yes it does:

Revelation 21:8 "But cowards, unbelievers, the corrupt, murderers, the immoral, those who practice witchcraft, idol worshipers, and all liars--their fate is in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

So I guess you see yourself one of them right?

I'm an unbeliever, so I could be the most moral person in the world, but God will still torture me eternally for the crime of not believing. Does that sound moral to you?

Not exactly what the scripture teaches. You are not going to be judged because of unbelief of itself if you are righteous BUT God are ready pointed out many times in scripture God will used your own judgments against you. "Unbelievers" will be judged because they thought they were righteous.

If you can stand before God as a righteous person you can ask Jesus to slide over and sat on the throne with Him.

 

[lesliedellow]

Matthew 25:46 - “Aionian” or “Eternal”

Matthew 25:46 - “Aionian” or “Eternal”
by Ken Eckerty[FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

He doesn't address the simple fact that, whether he likes it or not, wherever aionios is used in the New Testament, or the Septuagint, it does mean everlasting or eternal. A case in point is Romans 16.26:

"but now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:"

 

[ThinkForYourself]

God NEVER says that. I challenge you to find what you said in the Bible.

Revelation 12:8
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”

 

[ThinkForYourself]

So I guess you see yourself one of them right?

Yes, I'm an unbeliever.

Not exactly what the scripture teaches. You are not going to be judged because of unbelief of itself if you are righteous BUT God are ready pointed out many times in scripture God will used your own judgments against you. "Unbelievers" will be judged because they thought they were righteous.

Revelations is clear, with no ifs ands or buts. Unbelievers are going to Hell.

God says to love your neighbour, and turn the other cheek, while also demanding the stoning of unruly child to death, and committing holocausts against populations except for the female virgins. So which one is correct? God completely contradict himself, apparently depending on his mood that day. So yeah, maybe I will catch him on a good day, but I might also catch him on a bad day.

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

Actually, I'd say that you've made a categorization fallacy error, because parents are not God.

How did Jesus explain to pray? "Our Father..."

Before patriarchy establish world dominance by mass murder, a major and wide spread belief of the times was of the Mother Goddess.

The victorious are called "Children of God."


And the relationship will change as we grow in spiritual maturity.


In Hosea 2:16, "It will come about in that day," declares the LORD, "That you will call Me Ishi (Husband) And will no longer call Me Baali (Lord, Master, Owner).

 

[Smidlee]

Yes, I'm an unbeliever.



Revelations is clear, with no ifs ands or buts. Unbelievers are going to Hell.

God says to love your neighbour, and turn the other cheek, while also demanding the stoning of unruly child to death, and committing holocausts against populations except for the female virgins. So which one is correct? God completely contradict himself, apparently depending on his mood that day. So yeah, maybe I will catch him on a good day, but I might also catch him on a bad day.

There is a big different between God being your judge and being your redeemer. The book of Revelation does deal with the end time and after the final judgment where unbelievers will be judge but that doesn't mean unbelievers won't have a fair trial to present their case before God.

The reason God asked his followers to turn the other cheek is because He will deal with them in due time. It's the same when we are told not to take the law into our own hands.

 

[Usus Vox Tractus]

He doesn't address the simple fact that, whether he likes it or not, wherever aionios is used in the New Testament, or the Septuagint, it does mean everlasting or eternal. A case in point is Romans 16.26:

"but now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting [aionios] God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:"

Olethron Aionion (eternal destruction)

[FONT=Bookman Old Style, Times New Roman][SIZE=+1]In the New Testament the history of the world is conceived as developed through a succession of aeons. A series of such aeons precedes the introduction of a new series inaugurated by the Christian dispensation, and the end of the world and the second coming of Christ are to mark the beginning of another series. Eph. 1:21; 2:7; 3:9,21; 1 Cor 10:11; compare Heb. 9:26. He includes the series of aeons in one great aeon, 'o aion ton aionon, the aeon of the aeons (Eph. 3:21); and the author of the Epistle to the Hebrews describe the throne of God as enduring unto the aeon of the aeons (Heb 1:8). The plural is also used, aeons of the aeons, signifying all the successive periods which make up the sum total of the ages collectively. Rom. 16:27; Gal. 1:5; Philip. 4:20, etc. This plural phrase is applied by Paul to God only.[/SIZE][/FONT]



If aionios means eternity, there cannot be a series of them, they cannot end and another begin. There also then cannot be a "before the ages (aionios) if the meaning is eternity.


Olethron Aionion (eternal destruction)

In the translation of 'aion' in well-known English versions,the following forty different renderings appear: Age, eon, time, period, today, the future, universe, course, world, worldly, world without end, since the world began, from the beginning of the world, ever, evermore, for ever and ever, end of my days, eternal, everlasting, always, permanently, constantly, of old, ancient times, all time (since) time was, (since) time began, (before) time began, all time, (since) the beginning of time, eternal ages, eternal life, eternity, course of eternity, utter (darkness), (the son) does (remain), ages of the eternities, (in and through) the eternities of the eternities, etc. For 'aionios" the English versions use:- everlasting, eternal, eonian, age lasting, age during, age duringly, age abiding, (in) the time of the ages, age times, (before) the ages of time, of the ages, (in) the periods of past ages, (before) the ages began, for the ages of time, (before) the beginning of time, since the world began, (before) the times of the world, (before) times eternal, from eternity, from all eternity, for ever, unfailing, final, unending, permanent, immemorial, enduring, lasting, eternally, long, perpetual, an immeasurable eternity, last, heavenly.

The above lists, compiled by J. Kirk, Eonian, Everlasting or Age-lasting? (Sacred literature Concern, Los Angeles, undated) have been gathered from The Douay Version (1582), The King James Version (1611), Wilson's Emphatic Diaglott (1881), Rotherham's Emphasized Bible (1872), The English Revised Version (1881), The American Standard Version (1901), Young's Literal Translation, The Modern Reader's Bible (1898), The Numerical Bible (1899), The Twentieth Century New Testament (1901), The N.T. in Modern Speech (Weymouth) (1903), The Complete Bible in Modern Speech (Fenton) (1906), Moffat's N.T. (1922), Goodspeed's N.T. (1923), The Centenary N.T. (Montgomery) (1924), Darby's W.T., The Concordant N.T. (1930), The Numeric English N.T. (Ivan Panin) (1935), The N.T. or Covenant (Cunnington) (1935).





If aionion mean eternity, there can be no plural, no before, no after, no series, no completion. Before the 20th century, aionion was translated as world. Comparative Concordance of how the Greek words aion and aionios are translated in various Bible translations

 

[ThinkForYourself]

There is a big different between God being your judge and being your redeemer. The book of Revelation does deal with the end time and after the final judgment where unbelievers will be judge but that doesn't mean unbelievers won't have a fair trial to present their case before God.

The reason God asked his followers to turn the other cheek is because He will deal with them in due time. It's the same when we are told not to take the law into our own hands.

Revelations is very clear: Unbelievers go to Hell.

 

[Smidlee]

Revelations is very clear: Unbelievers go to Hell.

Ultimately yes since no one can stand before God in his own righteousness. The sentence hasn't been carried out on anyone yet as that's for the day of judgment.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

Ultimately yes since no one can stand before God in his own righteousness. The sentence hasn't been carried out on anyone yet as that's for the day of judgment.

Do you think it is moral for God to torture me forever because the brain He gave me is apparently malfunctioning and won't believe in Him? Does that sound like a loving God to you?

Do you think it is moral to torture someone forever because of their beliefs?

 

[lesliedellow]

If aionion mean eternity, there can be no plural, no before, no after, no series, no completion. Before the 20th century, aionion was translated as world.

1.) Aionios is an adjective, not a noun, and it does mean eternal, or everlasting.

2.) The Koine Greek word for world is kosmos.

3.) Aionion is the accusative form of aionios.

4.) Aionos (without the second 'i') is the genetive form of aion.


Oxford Concise Dictionary of New Testament Greek:
αιωνιος - long ago; eternal (of God), without end, eternal, everlasting.

 

[juvenissun]

The bible is very clear in Revelation 12:8 (I think). Unbelievers go to Hell, to be tortured forever.

And I do not have control of what I believe. Could you make yourself sincerely believe there are pink unicorns orbiting the earth?

God will not put you into that torture chamber. Unless you walk in on yourself.
Yes, you do not have to walk into that place. I was like you, and I changed my direction.

 

[ThinkForYourself]

God will not put you into that torture chamber. Unless you walk in on yourself.
Yes, you do not have to walk into that place. I was like you, and I changed my direction.

Cool. I hereby declare I will not willingly submit myself to eternal torture.

Actually, I'm positive nobody is going to willingly submit themselves to eternal torture, so what is the point of Hell if no one is going to go there?

Or was God telling the truth when he said in Revelations 12:8 that He will torture unbelievers forever in Hell?