Self-hate versus Humanism

[PKJ]

I've been thinking alot about humanism lately.

Here's the definition (wikipedia) for humanism:

Humanism is an active ethical and philosophical approach to life focusing on human solutions to human issues through rational arguments without recourse to a god, gods, sacred texts or religious creeds.
​

Now, consider this: all three major religions are based on sin ("you are nothing", "you are evil", "you're a sinner"), the Fall ("mankind is doomed", "everybody deserves hell"), and free-will mumbo-jumbo ("ignore your pulsions, you can control them!"). For years I've been intoxicated with that kind of self-hate propaganda.

So the other day, I came up with the antidote for the self-hate poison: my humanist vow.

1) I will no longer hate myself. I am not a bad person. I sometimes do stuff that is not so cool, but I'm working hard to improve myself.
2) I will no longer hate my desires, thoughts, pulsions, etc. They are normal, they are a part of me. I will refrain from doing stuff that might harm me or other people, but I will NOT refrain from doing what I want if it's harmless.
3) I will no longer hate humanity. We are not so bad. Ok, we suck right now, but we can do better!

Say that to yourself when you are feeling low. Beats every prayer in the world!

 

[Moros]

A little off topic here, but since you mentioned the "three major religions," are you referring to Christianity, Islam, and Judaism, or Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism? Or maybe Christianity, Hinduism, and Buddhism?
Does anyone else find it really awkward that C, I, and J are always listed as the big three, when there are 2 billion C, 1 billion I, and a billion H but only something like 11 million J? Or 2 billion C, a billion H, and a much larger number of Buddhists?

I am a misanthrope, so Humanism is sort of my archenemy.

 

[Spinrad]

The big western three.

 

[PKJ]

The big monotheistic 3, yes. Most Buddhists do not believe in any kind of God.

 

[Eudaimonist]

So the other day, I came up with the antidote for the self-hate poison: my humanist vow.

1) I will no longer hate myself. I am not a bad person. I sometimes do stuff that is not so cool, but I'm working hard to improve myself.
2) I will no longer hate my desires, thoughts, pulsions, etc. They are normal, they are a part of me. I will refrain from doing stuff that might harm me or other people, but I will NOT refrain from doing what I want if it's harmless.
3) I will no longer hate humanity. We are not so bad. Ok, we suck right now, but we can do better!

Say that to yourself when you are feeling low. Beats every prayer in the world!

Sounds good! This is the right path.

 

[FSTDT]

PKJ,

Now, consider this: all three major religions are based on sin ("you are nothing", "you are evil", "you're a sinner"), the Fall ("mankind is doomed", "everybody deserves hell"), and free-will mumbo-jumbo ("ignore your pulsions, you can control them!"). For years I've been intoxicated with that kind of self-hate propaganda.

I noticed this years after leaving the church, and realized that its one of a number of fear-based techniques intended to gain control of people. Its based on the idea that church members should be convinced that they are thoroughly evil people who can never be redeemed... except through total and complete submission to the church. (Its probably not true that churches actually intend explicitly to arrest peoples freewill, but its what inevitably happens to so many people.)

1) I will no longer hate myself. I am not a bad person. I sometimes do stuff that is not so cool, but I'm working hard to improve myself.
2) I will no longer hate my desires, thoughts, pulsions, etc. They are normal, they are a part of me. I will refrain from doing stuff that might harm me or other people, but I will NOT refrain from doing what I want if it's harmless.
3) I will no longer hate humanity. We are not so bad. Ok, we suck right now, but we can do better!

Say that to yourself when you are feeling low. Beats every prayer in the world!

I agree completely

 

[""]

I've been thinking alot about humanism lately.



Here's the definition (wikipedia) for humanism:

Humanism is an active ethical and philosophical approach to life focusing on human solutions to human issues through rational arguments without recourse to a god, gods, sacred texts or religious creeds.


​

Now, consider this: all three major religions are based on sin ("you are nothing", "you are evil", "you're a sinner"), the Fall ("mankind is doomed", "everybody deserves hell"), and free-will mumbo-jumbo ("ignore your pulsions, you can control them!"). For years I've been intoxicated with that kind of self-hate propaganda.


So the other day, I came up with the antidote for the self-hate poison: my humanist vow.

1) I will no longer hate myself. I am not a bad person. I sometimes do stuff that is not so cool, but I'm working hard to improve myself.
2) I will no longer hate my desires, thoughts, pulsions, etc. They are normal, they are a part of me. I will refrain from doing stuff that might harm me or other people, but I will NOT refrain from doing what I want if it's harmless.
3) I will no longer hate humanity. We are not so bad. Ok, we suck right now, but we can do better!

Say that to yourself when you are feeling low. Beats every prayer in the world!

Doesn't this belong in a blog or a journal? It's not really debate material, it's more of a personal acknowledgement... growth... whatever you want to call it.

 

[PKJ]

Probably. Just wanted to know if others felt like that too.

 

[jayem]

This was written by Robert G. Ingersoll. As good a statement of humanist ideals as any I've come across.


"To love justice, to long for the right, to love mercy, to pity the suffering, to assist the weak, to forget wrongs and remember benefits -- to love the truth, to be sincere, to utter honest words, to love liberty, to wage relentless war against slavery in all its forms, to love wife and child and friend, to make a happy home, to love the beautiful in art, in nature, to cultivate the mind, to be familiar with the mighty thoughts that genius has expressed, the noble deeds of all the world, to cultivate courage and cheerfulness, to make others happy, to fill life with the splendor of generous acts, the warmth of loving words, to discard error, to destroy prejudice, to receive new truths with gladness, to cultivate hope, to see the calm beyond the storm, the dawn beyond the night, to do the best that can be done and then to be resigned -- this is the religion of reason, the creed of science. This satisfies the heart and brain. "

 

[Ledifni]

I am a misanthrope, so Humanism is sort of my archenemy.

So what's your reasoning there, then? If you are a misanthrope, then to be consistent, shouldn't you reject the benefits you receive from membership in society? Or by "I am a misanthrope," do you simply mean that you want everybody else to be humanists, so you can be a misanthrope and reap the benefits?

That is to say, if we were all misanthropes, society would confer no benefits on its members; do you believe, then, that the rest of us should be humanists purely for your benefit, or is it your position that the benefits of society are superfluous, and you'd be willing to give them all up?

 

[levi501]

good mantra that'll lead to a happy life..

 

[Lycaenidae]

Probably. Just wanted to know if others felt like that too.

Yes

 

[sc4s2cg]

According to your three vows...would you say...

"Oops, I raped. Im not a bad person, I just messed up."
"Oops, I murdered my friend. Im not a bad person, I just messed up."
"Oops, I consumed illegal drugs. Im not a bad person, I just messed up."

If not, please clearify.

G-d bless,
sc

 

[PKJ]

According to your three vows...would you say...

"Oops, I raped. Im not a bad person, I just messed up."
"Oops, I murdered my friend. Im not a bad person, I just messed up."
"Oops, I consumed illegal drugs. Im not a bad person, I just messed up."

If not, please clearify.

G-d bless,
sc

Didn't you read #2? Do not harm others.

If you did rape or murder, yes, you ARE a bad person. Not to sure about the drug part though.

 

[sc4s2cg]

Didn't you read #2? Do not harm others.

If you did rape or murder, yes, you ARE a bad person. Not to sure about the drug part though.

Thats what I get for skim reading

I have another question..
" 2) I will no longer hate my desires, thoughts, pulsions, etc."

Does that mean you will give in to every desire as long as it doesnt conflict with the rest of the "rules"?

G-d bless,
sc

 

[PKJ]

Thats what I get for skim reading

I have another question..
" 2) I will no longer hate my desires, thoughts, pulsions, etc."

Does that mean you will give in to every desire as long as it doesnt conflict with the rest of the "rules"?

G-d bless,
sc

Good question!

I would say "no". Some people do, though (hedonists, for example). I tend to treat myself by doing foolish things once in a while, but I'm usually a pretty conservative guy. I only "give in" to desires that serve my mid and long-term goals.

I'm only 22, and already a boring guy!

 

[skinner]

You really think Christianity teaches self-hatred? Not.
I'm made in the image of God, not a cosmic accident.
I'm worth so much that the Son of God was willing to die for me.
When I mess up, He is waiting with open arms to accept me.
(BTW, the popularity of going to a shrink for confession should tell us something. I can get the same relief by confessing to God, without the price-tag.

 

[CSMR]

I've been thinking alot about humanism lately.

Here's the definition (wikipedia) for humanism:

Humanism is an active ethical and philosophical approach to life focusing on human solutions to human issues through rational arguments without recourse to a god, gods, sacred texts or religious creeds.​

I will take that definition, although I don't consider it a very good one (wasn't Erasmus a humanist?)
​

Now, consider this: all three major religions are based on sin ("you are nothing", "you are evil", "you're a sinner"), the Fall ("mankind is doomed", "everybody deserves hell"), and free-will mumbo-jumbo ("ignore your pulsions, you can control them!"). For years I've been intoxicated with that kind of self-hate propaganda.

The second and third ideas are contradictory, although this is sadly not realized by most self-identified Christians.

1) I will no longer hate myself. I am not a bad person. I sometimes do stuff that is not so cool, but I'm working hard to improve myself.

Free will mumbo-jumbo!!!

2) I will no longer hate my desires, thoughts, pulsions, etc. They are normal, they are a part of me. I will refrain from doing stuff that might harm me or other people, but I will NOT refrain from doing what I want if it's harmless.

What do you mean by harm? Something distinct from want, at least - that's good!

3) I will no longer hate humanity. We are not so bad. Ok, we suck right now, but we can do better!

You misunderstand the notion of hatred. Hatred is not to call another blacker than he is (or even isn't!), but to will him to be blacker than he might be. In order to avoid hatred you must go beyond flattery of self and others into love.

 

[""]

I noticed this years after leaving the church, and realized that its one of a number of fear-based techniques intended to gain control of people. Its based on the idea that church members should be convinced that they are thoroughly evil people who can never be redeemed... except through total and complete submission to the church. (Its probably not true that churches actually intend explicitly to arrest peoples freewill, but its what inevitably happens to so many people.)

I just wanted to comment on this statement. As a Christian, I have to tell you that my experiences have been completely different. We are not called to be submissive to "a church", but rather to humble ourselves before our Creator, and allow the blood of Christ to cleanse us from our sins.

Now I do believe there are some who do feel that submission to a church is a requirement for salvation, but most of the Christians that I know, are not among those who believe such a thing. I have heard (and read) that Mormon's do believe such a thing, but I don't want to make accusations. I'm not Mormon, and I'm sure that the Mormon's who do post here, could explain their beliefs far better than I. I'm also not Catholic, but I do acknowledge that Catholics do indeed worship the Savior, Jesus Christ, just as I do. As far as their submission to the church of catholicism goes, I won't say if I believe this to be the case or not, as I am not Catholic. The Catholics I know do give a high role of authority to the Pope. I do not. I believe in confessing my sins to God himself, and not to another human, unless I have sinned against that human. In which case I would confess and apologize to them, as well as God. I want to add that I do not dismiss the idea that the Pope is probably a man who serves God, but then I would also suggest that I do not know the hearts of mankind. Only my Father in Heaven does.

Finally, I would like to ask if any of you find it possible to live among Christians (as well as others who practice varying religions), and remain respectful toward them, simply because they are human beings? I may not agree with atheists, humanists, or agnostics, but I do make an attempt to treat them like any other human being. I think we all deserve respect, unless or until we happen to personally offend one another. There is a difference between personally offending, and when one is simply offended by another's beliefs. Intelligent minded persons are fully aware of this difference, and behave accordingly.

 

[sc4s2cg]

Good question!

I would say "no". Some people do, though (hedonists, for example). I tend to treat myself by doing foolish things once in a while, but I'm usually a pretty conservative guy. I only "give in" to desires that serve my mid and long-term goals.

I'm only 22, and already a boring guy!

Ahh. So..what motivates you?

G-d bless,
sc