"Self-esteem" Love it or Hate it??

[Psalms34]

hmm? What say ye?

 

[Nadiine]

Well, I got a book from John MacArthur on Christian counseling -
what I loved about it was his focus on the Holy Spirit in the first
few chapters.

But, after reading his chapter on self love/self esteem, I have to
say that it does more harm than good overall.
And it's very often perverted into love of self which then ends up
causing rebellion to God becuz we get lofty ideals that usurp
God's principles.

At the source, it so easily leads into sin and rebellion.

If no one wants to believe that, that's fine - I'd only ask them to
take a close look at the youth today who are raised with the
self-love/esteem mantras being pumped into them daily and
ask if they have any reverance towards God & what is holy?
It's quite the opposite as they demand all that is due to them;
they also radically defy scripture authority, elevating their own
philosophies over God's.

I think when we witness self esteem's results, we should be able
to see the problem with it.

 

[Psalms34]

Well, I got a book from John MacArthur on Christian counseling -
what I loved about it was his focus on the Holy Spirit in the first
few chapters.

But, after reading his chapter on self love/self esteem, I have to
say that it does more harm than good overall.
And it's very often perverted into love of self which then ends up
causing rebellion to God becuz we get lofty ideals that usurp
God's principles.

He was against it, right? Yes that is how Bob Hoekstra leads off with the focus on the workings of God the Holy Spirit in counseling. I didn't know MacArthur wrote a book on this. If it jives, I'll probably find a copy.

From what I understand, self-esteem is based upon clinical psychology, which is of course rooted in humanistic philosophy. But I'd still like to hear more opinions before I comment further.

 

[Nadiine]

He was against it, right? Yes that is how Bob Hoekstra leads off with the focus on the workings of God the Holy Spirit in counseling. I didn't know MacArthur wrote a book on this. If it jives, I'll probably find a copy.

From what I understand, self-esteem is based upon clinical psychology, which is of course rooted in humanistic philosophy. But I'd still like to hear more opinions before I comment further.

yes, he's basically against it and one of his points was that by nature,
we already have self love. We all love ourselves.
When we tack on this esteem, it provides an imbalance as we keep
feeding our self love and worth.
Then it gets warped and overinflated and we start thinking more
(or too) highly of ourselves.

I should reread his chapter on this again and freshen up my
memory of his statements.

But no doubt this is why the world just hates Christians - we don't
buy into the world's humanistic philosophies and we're viewed as archaic,
puritanical, hatemongering lepers

reminds me of this verse:
1 Peter 4:4
In all this, they are surprised that you do not run with them
into the same excesses of dissipation, and they malign you;
5 but they will give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead.

 

[MrJim]

Supposedly when you have "low self esteem" it means you do not value yourself or like yourself. It often comes across like "Suzy doesn't like herself because she has a big nose and it affects her self-esteem" when really Suzy wants a nose like Sally and then she'd feel better about herself. In the old days that would be called coveting. In reality if Suzy didn't like herself she'd be glad when bad things would happen to her.

I would suppose though that there might be genuine cases of self hate, in which case I would expect there to be severe mental disturbance or perhaps demonic activity. But I figure most are simply people not getting what they want.

 

[Psalms34]

@Nadi: Well yes, we are created in the image of God, He gives us worth and purpose so that we may serve Him, and serve Him through serving others. I seem to sorta fall short when I try to love myself in any other way, I start to fall into the whole Romans 7 ordeal, and that certainly a wretched place. But I cherish my existence in Christ, but loathsome apart with only but self as my outlook. I can’t imagine hell, or don’t want to, seems to be a place that has only but self.

Ah cool, I’ll pick up that book and give it a read, thanks

 

[Nadiine]

Supposedly when you have "low self esteem" it means you do not value yourself or like yourself. It often comes across like "Suzy doesn't like herself because she has a big nose and it affects her self-esteem" when really Suzy wants a nose like Sally and then she'd feel better about herself. In the old days that would be called coveting. In reality if Suzy didn't like herself she'd be glad when bad things would happen to her.

looks like I better start repenting

 

[Markus6]

I'm not really a conservative, but this topic interests me so I'd like to offer my tuppence if that's OK with you guys (let me know).

It all depends with where our self image is coming from. If it's coming from members of the opposite sex you are interested in (I value myself if that cute girl will go on a date with me), or from friends (I value myself if I'm accepted and popular in this friendship group), or from society (I value myself if I line up with the ideal presented in this magazine), or even if you try to evaluate your self image yourself (which I don't think is possible really but probably part of the "finding yourself" or "searching for God within yourself" philosophy) then I think that is unhealthy and will lead to self worth which is too low (low self esteem) or too high (pride). I think we should try to see ourselves how God sees us, both in his creation of us and his redemption of us and our becoming a new creation. Realising that we're made in the image of God and that image is renewed and perfected in Christ. I think for many people seeing ourselves in this way means valuing ourselves more than we previously have, and changing our priorities. For example, it offers freedom to women who's self worth is tied to their weight and an unrealistic ideal presented by the media, and also to men who's self worth is tied to the number and calibre of women who are attracted to them or who sleep with them.

 

[Psalms34]

"Suzy doesn't like herself because she has a big nose and it affects her self-esteem" when really Suzy wants a nose like Sally and then she'd feel better about herself. In the old days that would be called coveting.

To covet? Seems I always thought that had to do with things you could take from someone for yourself be it by theft or seizure of some form. And then there is coveting prayers, which I don't think as a negative or sin, but to seize those offerings that are good.

This comes to mind though:
1 Thes 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

 

[MrJim]

To covet? Seems I always thought that had to do with things you could take from someone for yourself be it by theft or seizure of some form. And then there is coveting prayers, which I don't think as a negative or sin, but to seize those offerings that are good.

This comes to mind though:
1 Thes 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Coveting is simply wanting something ya don't have...

 

[Nadiine]

Coveting is simply wanting something ya don't have...

I think it's a little more than just wanting something we don't have.
It's wanting specifically what somebody else has - somebody
elses things.

Who doesn't WANT more of something in general? I somehow think coveting is a step beyond a simple wanting of more.

 

[Cris413]

I try to avoid myself as much as possible. Whenever I see myself coming...I try and walk the other way...nothing good ever comes from hooking up with myself...

 

[MrJim]

I think it's a little more than just wanting something we don't have.
It's wanting specifically what somebody else has - somebody
elses things.

Wanting something I don't have will mean it is possessed by someone else, even if it's Walmart

Who doesn't WANT more of something in general? I somehow think coveting is a step beyond a simple wanting of more.

Yeah I can see there's a line there~I wanted a larger fishtank so I got a 20 gal~did I covet it because I was reading about it at the fish forum and thought bigger is better and everyone says so or did I get it for practical reasons? Not sure what the line would be, but regarding the OP & "self esteem" I would hazard a guess and say when the want turns a person into creature that is simply living for what it wants then the covet line is crossed.

It's an interesting point, line between want and covet; another threaD topic.

 

[Nadiine]

Yeah I can see there's a line there~I wanted a larger fishtank so I got a 20 gal~did I covet it because I was reading about it at the fish forum and thought bigger is better and everyone says so or did I get it for practical reasons? Not sure what the line would be, but regarding the OP & "self esteem" I would hazard a guess and say when the want turns a person into creature that is simply living for what it wants then the covet line is crossed.

It's an interesting point, line between want and covet; another threat topic.

ya it does sound threatening hehe

But seriously, wanting things is fine imho - but I think you're on
the right track when we let that want become something we
obsess over. & I know I've gone over the line before.

But back to topic, if you look at today's PCism, it's really damaging
in the way it goes about instilling self esteem. As usual, they
go way too far in unhealthy ways.

here's just one example of PCism turned lunacy and why I'm so
anti liberalsm which is the source for this mess

http://www.tolerance.org/teach/printar.jsp?p=0&ar=680&pi=ttm

 

[Jim47]

True self esteem is how we see oursleves in God's eyes.

Though we be sinners, God gave His one and only Son to suffer and die so that we could be His own dear children. Knowing this, although we feel the guilt of our sins we also know that we are of great worth, though we go about as humble creatures as we should.

As for those who have great self esteem outside of faith in Jesus, what does it matter?

 

[Psalms34]

I try to avoid myself as much as possible. Whenever I see myself coming...I try and walk the other way...nothing good ever comes from hooking up with myself...

LOL I hear ya. I’m looking fwd to when imperfection puts on perfection. Love the growth though, shows His work, it‘s a testimony to God’s mercy and grace, and in that I find peace. We experience something that the angels can only but fascinate about, since they were created in a state of completeness and can only observe the plan of salvation at work. And as we decrease from our own self-efforts, it gives room for God to increase within us, to be more than we could ever imagine. As we get focus off of self, it seems to draw God’s attentions even more so upon our lives, working through us.

Where is self-esteem in the bible? If self-esteem is relevant and should be a coveted practice, lifting our own esteem to heights that seem acceptable in our own eyes (which is fleeting and never quenched imho), why is there not a chapter or two committed to this practice? Or have I overlooked something? happens...

The only thing I come across regarding some direct esteem reference is to esteem others above ourselves. Does self-esteem as taught in our culture lead to strife and vaneglory, perhaps? (Philippians 2:3).

Then I came across this as I searched passages for the word esteem:

Like 16:13 "No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. " 14 And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. 15 And he said unto them, "Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. "

But what to make of that too?
That's pretty heavy though, eh? The pharisees always to the rescue to demonstrate that anti-example, perhaps. Something of a discussion point perhaps, I'm not so inclined to run around calling people pharisees, however. Yet are we not to be fruit inspectors (Mat 7:16)? How do we help correct if we are caught unaware, ourselves?

 

[-~Truth_N_Trust~-]

True self esteem is how we see oursleves in God's eyes.

I very much agree. I think that is a very important part of Christianity, seeing ourselves through God's eyes - seeing the truth.

I really think that 'self-esteem' as it is generally promoted has created a generation that feels entitled. Not everyone can win, not everyone deserves the best - harsh truths. There is a place for everyone (not just Christians IMO) to see their faults and strive to better themselves.

I hear all the time "I deserve better/the best", "I deserve to be happy" etc. and I always wonder, 'why?' And at what expense?

 

[Psalms34]

Maybe I should insert here a psychological definition and report on self-esteem.
This I find interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-esteem