Self-Control

[FaithInTruth]

Self-Control Hi all, I just wanted to get some different perspectives from other believers about self-control.

It is a fruit of the Spirit, but it is also something Peter told us that we should give all diligence to add to our faith.

2 Peter 1: 5-8: "5 For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ."

"22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24 And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires." (Galatians 5:22-24)

(I put the words "love" and "self-control" in bold so you can see where they stand in the scriptures.)

So self-control and love are both something we must give diligence to add.

So how do we add or supply love and self-control and also produce the fruit of it at the same time? Do we strive to attain it for ourselves until the Spirit takes over for us and it comes naturally? In 2 Peter it also says if those qualities are ours and increasing it will keep us from being unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I also want to point out that love is last in what we are admonished to add and yet first in what is produced by the Spirit.

Any thoughts???

 

[granpa]

desires are healthy and normal.
when you are hungry you desire food and you go eat and all is well.
The problem is leaks.
You go on a diet and forbid yourself to eat sweets and then you are filled with craving for sweets.
the thing you have to understand about cravings is that you desire the food not because it tastes good but rather simply because it is forbidden.
That's like a leak in a boat.
You're trying to get the calories out and they are leaking back in.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taṇhā


people are confused by the false dichotomy of giving in to their cravings or depriving themselves completely.
There is a third path. A middle path

 

[FaithInTruth]

desires are healthy and normal.
when you are hungry you desire food and you go eat and all is well.
The problem is leaks.
You go on a diet and forbid yourself to eat sweets and then you are filled with craving for sweets.
the thing you have to understand about cravings is that you desire the food not because it tastes good but rather simply because it is forbidden.
That's like a leak in a boat.
You're trying to get the calories out and they are leaking back in.



people are confused by the false dichotomy of giving in to their cravings or depriving themselves completely.
There is a third path. A middle path

Thank you for your reply. I can see where you are coming from when you say a third path, or a "middle ground" but I believe there only two ways and only one leads to life.

I have thought about those things you said before, but I do not think they are true anymore because of what it produced. I think it is carnal nature that causes someone to give in to the flesh, and we are told to subdue it and put off the old nature. At the same time abstaining completely from it in order to subdue it is also carnal in nature, which is why we are told to put on the Lord Jesus Christ, for faith in Him is what gives us the grace to do anything. The way to self-control is in God alone, as well is love, for God is love. The Bible says, "So whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God." (1 Corinthians 10:31) And then we will not do it to satisfy the desires of the flesh which lead to ruin.

I am not a Buddhist and I don't believe what they do. My desire is to know Christ and Him crucified. I do appreciate you taking the time out to post that link but please kindly understand that I will not comment on it.

Thanks again.

Have a blessed day!

 

[granpa]

it is unfortunate that you have to take such a polar "either/or" attitude.

 

[granpa]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_(psychology)

Splitting (also called all-or-nothing thinking) is the failure in a person's thinking to bring together both positive and negative qualities of the self and others into a cohesive, realistic whole. It is a common defense mechanism used by many people.[1] The individual tends to think in extremes (i.e., an individual's actions and motivations are all good or all bad with no middle ground.)

 

[FaithInTruth]

it is unfortunate that you have to take such a polar "either/or" attitude.

Sir, I apologize if I posted this in the wrong section. I was studying the Bible. I am speaking of Christ, not what I think or you think, but rather what the Spirit of God reveals to us in His Word.

I don't know if you read the bible at all but Jesus said there are two roads, one that leads to life and one that leads to destruction. He said many will try to enter through the narrow door taking the narrow road and will not be able because it is difficult. The broad and easy way leads to destruction and many there are that go that way. Surely there is a lot of room for "middle ground" on the broad path. I am seeking to walk through the narrow door. Call me whatever psychological term you will, if you want, but I want Christ and Christ alone.

And please do not misunderstand me, I believe that although through much tribulation we enter the Kingdom of heaven, it is still heaven, the Almighty Presence of God, and Jesus Himself is that narrow and glorious door by which we enter and following Him is taking the same path He walked to Calvary, where we crucify the flesh, consider ourselves dead to sin and alive in Christ, and risen with Him above in Spirit and Truth where He is seated at the right hand of the throne of God in heavenly places.

Jesus also promised He would never leave us nor forsake us, and He remained faithful even when I was not for He cannot deny Himself, and He kept His Word to this day for He cannot lie, He suffered through with me to the end bearing my burden and interceding on my behalf. He is my grace, my faith, my truth, my love, my light, and life of eternal salvation. Why would I seek to desire other things if they only keep me from Him? Do I want to hang on to any of it? No! I want to rip up that dead filthy tree by the roots and cast it into the sea where it belongs. Move this ridiculous mountain from standing in my way of my Lord.

There is none like Christ on the earth or above or anything below. He is all and in all, through and through He is everything, nothing is greater than Him. He is more alive today than ever before and He will come to judge the earth, and everything in it. He will tread the great winepress of the wrath of God, and it will be a glorious time for those who loved His appearing.

God bless!

"...HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is THE LORD GOD, THE ALMIGHTY, WHO WAS AND WHO IS AND WHO IS TO COME." Revelation 4:8

 

[granpa]

there are indeed two roads.
The Tree of Life and the tree of Good and Evil.
good and evil are examples of all or nothing thinking.
people become confused and think they have to choose between good and evil.
But this is a false dichotomy
the correct choice is neither good nor evil.
The correct choice is the tree of life

and yes I study the Bible extensively.
http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/Outline_of_the_Bible

 

[andy b]

you are all over solving a problem ...be kind loving and forgiving and everything else is irrelevant..as long as you are living a life which is kind of heart you cannot be judged

 

[granpa]

A very effective way to break unhealthy habits is to change your environment.
it lifts your mind out of the rut that its in and forces it to form new patterns of behavior

something as simple as rearranging your furniture can be surprisingly effective

 

[granpa]

the answer to the question "have you stopped beating your wife" is neither yes nor no.
But the answer is also not in between yes and no.
the answer is not "yes and no"
The answer is not sometimes.
the answer is not partially
the answer is not sort of.

the answer is that it's entirely the wrong question to ask

 

[FaithInTruth]

there are indeed two roads.
The Tree of Life and the tree of Good and Evil.
good and evil are examples of all or nothing thinking.
people become confused and think they have to choose between good and evil.
But this is a false dichotomy
the correct choice is neither good nor evil.
The correct choice is the tree of life

and yes I study the Bible extensively.

Thank you Sir! Yes you are exactly right in what you say we are to choose Life which is Jesus Christ. Which brings me back to my original question on what it means to be diligent to add self-control when we are choosing life, because it is also automatically produced by us as a fruit of the Spirit by remaining in Him. Maybe the "self-control" spoken about in 2 Peter is to be diligent to remain in Him, Christ Jesus, the Word of God. Ohhhhhhhh! Glory to God we figured it out!

So this mean that when faced with temptations of any kind the only thing we need to control is to keep ourselves in hearing and doing His word. I mean this sounds so obvious now that I write this down, and is basically what the whole bible teaches. Setting our mind on the flesh is death, that means even our attempts to try and control our flesh...

And so by giving diligence to add to our knowledge self-control [as to setting our mind on the Spirit, which is the words Jesus spoke, is life and peace. And hearing and doing what He said.] Then we fall deeper in love with Christ as we are filled with His Spirit and the fruit of love is produced, followed by the fruit of self-control that now automatically causes one to resist temptation because God is working in us to will and do His good pleasure, and God, who is love, cannot be tempted nor does He tempt anyone. "but each one is tempted when they are led astray by their own desire". So as long as we are in this fallen flesh, and the flesh is opposed to the Spirit, we have to fight to control ourselves in reading the Word of God- and then doing it, or the bible says we lose it. So a new bit of information is this: If we find we are recalling scriptures in our minds and not doing what we hear come to mind, then we better humble ourselves and give time to reading and praying and seeking God.

What is challenging is that once a person has not continued to remain/abide in Christ- the Vine- he withers. Which means his faith is not strong, which affects their hope, which is necessary to have to go on. (Also if the fruits of self-control is not produced and neither is love, joy, peace, etc. so all that remains is really sin in itself, as well as outward sins. Apart from Christ we can do nothing. And like you mentioned if we do not choose life we choose knowledge of good and evil, which is sin, and leads one under the law, which no one can keep whatsoever without Christ Himself who is the only one who ever fulfilled it.)
Therefore a person must empty themselves before the Lord and cry to God, and pray for Him practically like they did when they were first saved.
Sin hardens hearts and is deceitful, so is our own hearts. There is no way one can just muster up the genuine desire and thirst for righteousness on their own, unless they came to the complete end of themselves by way of exhaustion or calamity.

"Then he said, "I tell you the truth, unless you turn from your sins and become like little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven." Matthew 18:3

Faith and repentance go hand in hand, and so does submission and obedience, and so does obedience with love.

"And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted." Matthew 23:12

May God help us all.

If someone is spiritually dead because of sin, whether it be pride or coveting or anything, they cannot see clearly the truth on their own, God must give them sight, providing they want to see. For it was Him they turned against in the first place. Many professing believers read the word today with a veiled face, those we know by their fruits.

So humbling and hearing and doing, that we should control ourselves in. And GOD will take care of the rest.

It all comes back to the garden.

Glory to God!

 

[granpa]

there are indeed two roads.
The Tree of Life and the tree of Good and Evil.
good and evil are examples of all or nothing thinking.
people become confused and think they have to choose between good and evil.
But this is a false dichotomy
the correct choice is neither good nor evil.
The correct choice is the tree of life

and yes I study the Bible extensively.
Outline of the Bible - Religion-wiki

people think they have to choose between selfless and selfish.
But that is a false dichotomy.
it's really about choosing between cooperative and competitive behavior

 

[FaithInTruth]

people think they have to choose between selfless and selfish.
But that is a false dichotomy.
it's really about choosing between cooperative and competitive behavior

I think it's really about whether or not you have faith in Jesus.

 

[com7fy8]

Hi, Faith So, you want to know what we have about "self-control" as being part of the fruit of the Holy Spirit?

Galatians 5:22-23 says, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law."

So, yes . . . this translation does say that "self-control" is in the fruit of the Holy Spirit. My earlier King James translation uses the word "temperance" for "self-control". Let's see what my concordance Greek dictionary says "temperance" or "self-control" mean in early Bible manuscript Greek >

It says "temperance" means > "self-control"! Yay! lololololololol Also it says something about being "masterful". So, I can see that true self-control in God's love includes being very good at doing something . . . having self-control so you do it well, and do not get impatient and mess it up. After all, this is God's self-control, and God is very creative

It is like how a masterful carpenter needs to have steadiness and balance, in order to do fine things in his or her masterpieces.

We can't get irritable and still be able to do something well and relate well with people > "for the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God." (James 1:20) We have seen how self-control gets "lost" while we or others are crazy with anger.

So, self-control is not only for defending ourselves against evil things that would mess up our personalities. But in God's self-control we are on the offense and winning, plus we have His sensitivity and creativity with control for doing things very nicely and kindly. So self-control is not only defensive.

And self-control is part of the Holy Spirit's fruit; so it is not alone. It is not a thing by itself.

And I notice that a fruit has different characteristics and qualities all in the same one fruit. An apple can be crispy and sweet and juicy and other things They can be all together, not separate.

Like this, I consider that self-control is included in the fruit, right along with other good things . . . of God's love. God's love is loving, joyful, peaceful, longsuffering, kind, good, faithful, gentle, and with self-control . . . all in one.

So, the self-control of the Holy Spirit's fruit is a character "thing", along with the fruit being all God is in His love. It's a matter of nature, and not what you can produce in your actions and self-disciplining for show. Only God can change us in our nature, into His love's self-control.

It is in the fruit of the Holy Spirit so it grows with the whole fruit growing!!!

And the fruit is juicy and sweet and healthy and nutritious; so real self-control in God's love is sweet and nutritious and grows and keeps growing, to make us also sweet and healthy and even nutritious, in our loving self-control > Jesus became "a life-giving spirit," Paul says in 1 Corinthians 15:45. And Jesus in us, in our new self-control, makes us life-giving in the Holy Spirit's fruit which is sweet for others, also nutritious > we minister the effect of God's own love to one another > in ministering, then, we do not merely control our show and telling.

Godly self-control is not a self-forcing thing. God changes our character so we become self-controlled, by nature . . . more and more maturely, in His love.

So, self-control in God's love disciplines us "automatically", because this is in our nature, more and more as Jesus grows in us. Jesus in us, actually, is the fruit "My little children, for whom I labor in birth again until Christ is formed in you," (Galatians 4:19)

How do we discover ourselves being disciplined automatically in the fruit of love's self-control? A few things I think of include:

(1) Yes, we have automatic control against fear, for one example > "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love." (in 1 John 4:18) So, as we become perfected in love, our character gains and grows in natural immunity of self-control against how fear would effect us. But this self-controlling protection of love is multi-tasking, also against what in us would have us argue, be irritable, give in to stress and pressure, be unforgiving, give in to depressing thoughts and desires which control us to seek pleasures and try to use and control people. But our self-control of love is not only self-defensive.

(2) Self-control includes keeping us sensitive to our Father and how He guides us in doing His works; and we are steady in His creativity so we can do things well, without "losing it" and messing things up. So, the self-control is protective plus positive, I guess we could say

(3) And there is the discipline of love having us make sure we do not only use any person, but first care for each and every person; using is not loving. This is included in how love's self-control in our nature controls us . . . so we are busy with loving any and every person and not only certain favorites > "For if you love those who love you, what reward have you?" (in Matthew 5:46)

There are times when I encourage my lady friend to make sure she spends time with others, loving and caring for them; because God's love is all-loving. And I see that the self-control of God's all-loving love will discipline us to not only love certain favorites, but self-control of love will discipline us to encourage and welcome our special companions to give also to others all that our Father pleases and guides us to give caringly so that we can become sharing all together in His family love - - not only holding on to a few favorites, but seeking to be His family with all whom He would adopt

I would say you already are into this, but I am only giving a few words to go with how you already are loving God bless you to enjoy growing more and discovering more maturely Bill

 

[FaithInTruth]

Hurray! Bill, you are a messenger of God.

You have shed so much light on this it is outstanding. I never thought of the fruit like you described having all those characteristics in one. It is so true, it does. And when it is multiplied, all are increased at the same time, because it is all one- we just produce more of it.

"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as you were called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." Ephesians 4:4-6

...

"Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love." Ephesians 4:15-16

Bill, you surely are doing this very thing, and you do abound in much grace and produce much fruit.

God has certainly blessed me with you because you have given me much hope.

What a pure and beautiful heart you have.

Thank you <3

 

[com7fy8]

Hi, Faith Thank you for the encouragement; God bless you, too What I write shows what I need, too.

"Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much." (James 5:16)

I can imagine impure pleasure things, and imagine having conversations where I am fighting others with my criticizing. But I tend not to show this stuff to others. So, I can seem pretty Christian, because I do not show my problems like if I were drunk or abusing food or arguing and complaining. And I have found that it helps to tell this to people so they can pray for me, and in loving I am busy with better relating, including praying with hope and caring for people I might think of using or self-righteously putting them down.

Jesus does say, "'Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.'" (Matthew 11:29-30)

So, with Jesus self-control can be easy; in His yoke of His love, we have power and I find that His love satisfies me to not care about wrong pleasures and satisfies me to first have caring compassion for people who are a problem for me.

And I think of "be content with such things as you have," in Hebrews 13:5. If we are satisfied with what we have, it is easier to have control not to abuse pleasures and so we are not against people who keep us from getting what we want and who have hurt us > we are satisfied with God, plus with Him we discover how we have more than all that humans can take away and so why get down and nasty about what is so less that ones might take or keep us from getting? So, being satisfied helps self-control, I would say.

"Rest in the LORD," we have in Psalm 37:7.

 

[com7fy8]

Hi, Granpa > you said:

Splitting (also called all-or-nothing thinking) is the failure in a person's thinking to bring together both positive and negative qualities of the self and others into a cohesive, realistic whole.

To me, a negative quality of my personality would be unscriptural and therefore I need how our Father corrects me of my negative qualities so they are no longer in me.

Even my "positive" qualities are not as good as how Jesus in me is becoming my new inner Person > Galatians 4:19. So, even my positives "may" need to go

And Jesus does say, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me." (in Luke 9:23) So, I see that Jesus wants us to deny our whole human personality's self and be changed into how Jesus has our personality become.

And, of course, I on my own do not have what it takes to sort out what qualities should be in me and what shouldn't. I need God to evaluate me and correct me. So, if you mean to by my own ability combine things better in myself, I would not say to try to do this. Because God is our Creator; we are much too complicated to be able to understand and "remake" ourselves. God made us, by means of His ways which are "past finding out," we have in Romans 11:33; so we can not figure out and understand our own personalities; only He can change us to how we need to become.

It is a common defense mechanism used by many people.[1] The individual tends to think in extremes (i.e., an individual's actions and motivations are all good or all bad with no middle ground.)

So, we need to trust in the LORD to make us become how He desires. This includes first trusting in Jesus for salvation, turning from self and self's ability, and becoming corrected by our Father into His holiness and "peaceable fruit of righteousness" . . . how His love has us become (Hebrews 12:4-17).

We need to turn to God and seek His correction (Hebrews 12:8-9); with our Father's correction, both positive and negative things of our human personality are gone, replaced by His love's character and ways; this could be included in what God means by > "Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new." (2 Corinthians 5:17)

So, I understand that we need to trust in Jesus and then be corrected of any of our old positive and negative ways that keep trying to stay in our personalities.

And in the light of this thread being a self-control discussion, I would offer that we can not control ourselves to become God's way > "for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure." (Philippians 2:13) God has the real control that we need; He working in us shares His control with us "And we have such trust through Christ toward God. Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think of anything as being from ourselves, but our sufficiency is from God," (2 Corinthians 3:4-5)

So, in becoming new in Jesus, we even have new "self-control" which is not from our old selves with our old egos! So, in Christ we are not stuck with our old ways and trying to only control and recombine them to get what we can with them. God gets rid of what is old and Jesus says, "I make all things new," in Revelation 21:5.

 

[pshun2404]

As with most of what God wants in the scriptures there is another aspect to the fruit of the Spirit that many miss. Fruit is a particular feature of a planting. It does not come immediately and if we desire a particular kind of fruit we must plant and cultivate THAT tree which produces That fruit. So we know the seed is the word which leads to the infilling of the Spirit but Paul enlightens us a bit further in Gal. 6...there is not only a propensity by the Spirit but we are to SOW TO THE SPIRIT...if you want love to manifest in your character and conduct you must continue to plant seeds of love and practice (cultivate) loving...the same with self control...

Failure to apply this principle is one of the reasons some Christians see little of the fruit of the Spirit in their lives. The fruit is not like a spiritual gift (which is given as God wills) but takes time to grow and we must sow to it. The same is true with self-control...as we sow (at every opportunity) in due season we will reap...God bless

In His love

Paul

 

[Phil112]

desires are healthy and normal.
...............................

Nothing healthy about a sinful desire. Normal? Yes, we are in a fleshly body after all, but a sinful desire or lust can take you to hell. Nothing healthy about it.
James 1:14-16 "
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Do not err, my beloved brethren."

 

[granpa]

a "sinful" "desire" is not a desire. Its a craving

desires and cravings are fundamentally different