• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Selective Service

If the draft were instituted, what would you do?

  • Go to War

  • Go to Canada

  • Go to Jail

  • I don't know


Results are only viewable after voting.

Evangelion

<b><font size="2">δυνατός</b></font>
SSV - no worries, mate - and thankyou for the compliment. Many Christians would never have been so generous. :cool:


PS. The Christadelphian community has always been a strong supporter of Israel and her fight to retain her historical homeland. We are regular contributors to the Youth Aliyah programme. :)
 
Upvote 0

cenimo

Jesus Had A 12 Man A-Team
Mar 17, 2002
2,000
78
To your right
Visit site
✟25,182.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
This shall be a rant a la Dennis Miller type.

My fahter was in WW II and Korea. Every single uncle was a WW II vet on bothe sides of the family. That was that generation.

We, the children of that generation grew up asking, "What did you do in the war, daddy?" Unfortunatey, our kids gres up with, "How&nbsp; did you dodge the draft daddy?"

[rant]

There was at a time called the Universal Conscript Law. Plain English version, being born an able bodied male citizen, you owed your country six years. The country didn't demand all six years active, there were many combinations...

An Air Force or Navy,&nbsp;Coast Guard or Marine Corps &nbsp;enlistment was usually four years

those who waited to get drafted were committed to two years active

the balance of active time at separation and six years was your reserve committment, but there was inactive reserve, ready reserve active reserves, etc...

As for the draft during the 'Nam, nothing said people had to volunteer for Special forces or Rangers or Airborne Infantry, like some of us did ...

there were plenty of skate jobs....no offense Coastie but that's why the Coast Guard had long waiting lists...one Cutter was sent to 'Nam and it was a CG Reserve ship...meanwhile, four year Marines were looking at two combat tours

NOW-

during Viet Nam people used every excuse imaginable to try and beat the draft...sham marriages, sudden conversions to Quaker and Mennonite and Jehovas' Witnesses, faked homosexuality, etc...

point is, any of these actions was nothing better than crawling under a rock... and flag waving Rush Limbaugh is one of the worst of these...so easy to wave the flag from inside a radio station, when the shooting has stopped

thus we now have the baby boomers who NOW regret not serving, so think playing paintball makes up for it

As for CO's...the true CO's served as medics and in other cpapcities where they didn't carry a weapon, but they served...I have no problem with someone like that...one of the bravest people I ever saw in Viet Nam was a C.O. combat medic....he was put in for the Medal of Honor but never got it because of his C.O. status.

The point of all this is that those not willing to defend freedom do not deserve freedom. No sidestepping with any baloney about just wars, etc...

Human nature teaches that those who come up with an excuse to duck xxx war will just switch gears for an excuse for another one. The real objection to any draft is more concern over someone's own hide than country.

The best system is like the Germans had in the 70's, the day Hans turns 18 he gets a piece of birthday cake and see ya in a year and a half.

As a Viet Vet, I will say this, I now have more respect for those chaps in the black pj's and rubber sandals that were trying to kill us than I do for one of our former Presidents. At least they fought for their country.


re: Viet Nam

In some VVA Halls, there is a map of Viet Nam on the wall, with oriental-script English over it, which says, "If you weren't there, shut ********* up


[/rant]

&nbsp;

&nbsp;

&nbsp;
 
Upvote 0

Evangelion

<b><font size="2">δυνατός</b></font>
cenimo -

This shall be a rant a la Dennis Miller type.

Just so long as you realise that your rant has absolutely nothing to do with the (a) conscientious objection, (b) the Christian life, or (c) the commandments of Christ.

Its relevance to Christianity, therefore, is zilch. Zip. Nada.

My fahter was in WW II and Korea. Every single uncle was a WW II vet on bothe sides of the family. That was that generation.

We, the children of that generation grew up asking, "What did you do in the war, daddy?" Unfortunraly, our kids gres up with, "How did you dodge the draft daddy?"

[rant]

There was at a time called the Universal Conscript Law. Plain English version, being born an able bodied male citizen, you owed your country six years. The country didn't demand all six years active, there were many combinations...

An Air Force or Navy, Coast Guard or Marine Corps enlistment was usually four years

those who waited to get drafted were committed to two years active

the balance of active time at separation and six years was your reserve committment, but there was inactive reserve, ready reserve active reserves, etc...

As for the draft during the 'Nam, nothing said people had to volunteer for Special forces or Rangers or Airborne Infantry, like some of us did ...

there were plenty of skate jobs....no offense Coastie but that's why the Coast Guard had long waiting lists...one Cutter was sent to 'Nam and it was a CG Reserve ship...meanwhile, four year Marines were looking at two combat tours

NOW-

during Viet Nam people used every excuse imaginable to try and beat the draft...sham marriages, sudden conversions to Quaker and Mennonite and Jehovas' Witnesses, faked homosexuality, etc...

point is, any of these actions was nothing better than crawling under a rock... and flag waving Rush Limbaugh is one of the worst of these...so easy to wave the flag from inside a radio station, when the shooting has stopped

thus we now have the baby boomers who NOW regret not serving, so think playing paintball makes up for it

As for CO's...the true CO's served as medics and in other cpapcities where they didn't carry a weapon, but they served...I have no problem with someone like that...one of the bravest people I ever saw in Viet Nam was a C.O. combat medic....he was put in for the Medal of Honor but never got it because of his C.O. status.

The point of all this is that those not willing to defend freedom do not deserve freedom. No sidestepping with any baloney about just wars, etc...

Human nature teaches that those who come up with an excuse to duck xxx war will just switch gears for an excuse for another one. The real objection to any draft is more concern over someone's own hide than country.

The best system is like the Grmans ha in the 70's, the day Hans turns 18 he gets a piece of birthday cake and see ya in a year and a half.

As a Viet Vet, I will say this, I now have more respect for those chaps in the black pj's and rubber sandals that were trying to kill us than I do for one of our former Presidents. At least they fought for their country.


re: Viet Nam

In some VVA Halls, there is a map of Viet Nam on the wall, with oriental-script English over it, which says, "If you weren't there, shut ********* up


[/rant]

Well hey, I had two great-uncles who fought (one in the Boer War, and another in the Somme), while my grandfather was a gunnery officer for the British submarine HMS Taciturn during WWII (he saw action in the Strait of Gibralter), and my father was a member of the Australian navy (but saw no action) until they found out he was a card-carrying member of the Communist party. (Remember, this was back in the 60s.) :D

But so what? They did what they did because they believed that it was the right thing to do. (And none of them were Christians at the time, BTW.) Does this mean that I have some kind of familial obligation to follow in their footsteps? Not on your nelly!

We're supposed to be serving God, rather than men - and the only kingdom for which we're permitted to fight, has yet to be established on this earth. :cool:
 
Upvote 0

fragmentsofdreams

Critical loyalist
Apr 18, 2002
10,358
431
21
CA
Visit site
✟36,328.00
Faith
Catholic
Originally posted by Knight
I find it interesting that so many people enjoy the fruits of this country but are unwilling to lift a finger to defend it.

I am not saying that I refuse to fight if it proves necessary. I am saying that if I decide that the war is unjust, I refuse to fight.

I support the decisions to join the military voluntarily. However, this is not the issue. The question deals with forcing people to fight against their will.
 
Upvote 0

Doctrine1st

Official nitwit
Oct 11, 2002
10,009
445
Seattle
Visit site
✟12,523.00
Faith
Politics
US-Others
Originally posted by Knight
I find it interesting that so many people enjoy the fruits of this country but are unwilling to lift a finger to defend it.

I&nbsp;personally&nbsp;would have no problem&nbsp;DEFENDING my country, the&nbsp; pending Iraq war is not about defense.&nbsp;WWII, fine. What the Israelians are experiencing, fine.&nbsp;If this war were&nbsp;a continuation of the war on&nbsp;Bin Laden Al-Qa'ida and&nbsp;his group, BTW, who is more of a direct threat than Saddam will ever be (why is he not even mentioned by our Prez any longer?)&nbsp;then&nbsp;fine count me in, I am defending my country. However I will never choose to be a part of the wasted lives of those who were told "you are defending your country"&nbsp;as they&nbsp;were in&nbsp;Vietnam, which was started on lies (Gulf of Tonkin) and continued because of pride, in&nbsp;LBJ&nbsp;not wanting to be the 1st American President to lose a war.&nbsp;The sad&nbsp;part is our leaders nor we&nbsp;have not learned from this history, and&nbsp;how does the saying goes, if you don't&nbsp;learn from history, your sure to repeat it again. WAKE UP

Cheers, D1st&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
 
Upvote 0

Knight

Knight of the Cross
Apr 11, 2002
3,395
117
52
Indiana
Visit site
✟4,472.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Originally posted by fragmentsofdreams
I am not saying that I refuse to fight if it proves necessary. I am saying that if I decide that the war is unjust, I refuse to fight.

I support the decisions to join the military voluntarily. However, this is not the issue. The question deals with forcing people to fight against their will.

Well, there hasn't been a draft in this country for a little over thirty years&nbsp;I think. You've got nothing to worry about.
 
Upvote 0

cenimo

Jesus Had A 12 Man A-Team
Mar 17, 2002
2,000
78
To your right
Visit site
✟25,182.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Truth be known, wars, prolonged wars, are fought by pilots and infantry, with a lot of support. During a prolonged war, it becomes very difficult to get enough volunteers for infantry. Thus, the draft came in / comes in.

Just another case of most people wanting the other guy to do it.

&nbsp;

consider this from stillsmallvoice

Although I dread the day when my wife &amp; I will have to drive them to an IDF induction center, we will certainly teach them not to shirk their responsibilities (people who want to live free can't piggyback on others for free) and that it is a privilege and an honor to wear IDF greens &amp; defend our people's right to live free in our country.

Pacifism has no place in traditional Judaism.

(people who want to live free can't piggyback on others for free)

If the situation ever came down to it, I'd sure rather have somone like that manning the gun next to me or out on the perimeter than someone who'd contemplate whetehr we should shoot the people shooting at us.
 
Upvote 0

stillsmallvoice

The Narn rule!
May 8, 2002
2,053
181
62
Maaleh Adumim, Israel
Visit site
✟25,967.00
Faith
Judaism
Marital Status
Married
Hi all!

Cenimo posted:

If the situation ever came down to it, I'd sure rather have somone like that manning the gun next to me or out on the perimeter than someone who'd contemplate whetehr we should shoot the people shooting at us.

Thank you (I think).

I've started making up a things-to-pack list in case my unit gets an emergency anthrax alert call-up.

I've never had to shoot or even aim my M-16 (or the heavy Belgian machine gun that we use on the patrol trucks) & I've never had to treat a wounded person. I hope & pray that it stays that way.

Be well!

ssv :wave:
 
Upvote 0

caley

Christian Anarchist
Oct 29, 2002
718
12
46
Fargo, ND
Visit site
✟1,081.00
Faith
Protestant
Originally posted by tamtam92
Why Canada ? France is a beautiful country !!! And we are not alike to go to war for the moment !!! There is no more military service !!! (only one information day for boys and girls !)

Couple problems with France for me.

1) I don't speak French

2) France, from what I hear, is notoriously socialist (so is Canada, but not as bad as France).

If I moved to Europe, I would probably go to Spain, mostly because I speak Spanish.
 
Upvote 0

Lynn

Veteran
Feb 14, 2002
1,509
102
71
Ogden, UT
Visit site
✟25,696.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
Originally posted by stillsmallvoice


People who object to military service can make their views known via the ballot box; this is the democratic way.



agreed! I am a vet, my husband, brother, father, uncles, grandfathers, all vets. This country has given us so much. It is one of the responsibilities of living in this country that we will also help to protect it.

lynn
 
Upvote 0

Gunny

Remnant
Site Supporter
May 18, 2002
6,133
105
United States of America
✟80,762.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Originally posted by cenimo

As a Viet Vet, I will say this, I now have more respect for those chaps in the black pj's and rubber sandals that were trying to kill us than I do for one of our former Presidents. At least they fought for their country.


How very true.

Welcome Home, Brother.

GySgt James

27132713vietvet.jpg
 
Upvote 0

Ajnin

Here's looking at you.
Jul 12, 2002
324
14
From WCW Special Forces
Visit site
✟23,073.00
Faith
Atheist
Politics
US-Others
Personally, I don't think we're going to reinstitute the draft, because of how GW's going to fight the war, and the effect of such a draft would have on the country.

But I would probably try to be a combat medic, for two reasons, I don't want to kill anyone and because if I was a draft dodger and went to Canada, I would be deserting people who would assumably need the services of a medic, and I wouldn't be there.
 
Upvote 0

chickenman

evil unamerican
May 8, 2002
1,376
7
43
Visit site
✟24,874.00
I don't understand why you'd automatically obey the government of your country if it told you to go and fight for it in a war.
I think every citizen has the right to question whether the war is just or neccessary - i'm not suggesting that war isn't ever neccessary - and I agree that you should help to defend your country - but unquestioning patriotism is a dangerous mindset that hitler exploited to instigate WWII. If you were a german in the 1930s, would you have objected to fighting in the war the german government started?
 
Upvote 0

Wolseley

Beaucoup-Diên-Cai-Dāu
Feb 5, 2002
21,897
6,577
64
By the shores of Gitchee-Goomee
✟358,609.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
If you were a german in the 1930s, would you have objected to fighting in the war the german government started?
If I were a German in the 1940's (the war didn't start until 1939, remember) I probably wouldn't have objected to fighting in a war to regain what the League of Nations unfairly imposed on my country in the Treaty of Versailles. If it hadn't been for Georges Clemenceau trying to get revenge for the 1870 Franco-Prussian War, Word War II in Europe never would have happened.

Don't forget also that the majority of German men in the Wehrmacht, or German armed forces, were not die-hard Nazis. They were just regular soldiers, mostly no different than men in the British army or French army or American army. The die-hard Nazis usually joined the Waffen-Schutzstaffel, or Armed SS. The SS ran the Konzentrationslagers and were behind most of the mass shootings of civilians and prisoners of war, not the Wehrmacht.
 
Upvote 0

Evangelion

<b><font size="2">δυνατός</b></font>
caley -

2) France, from what I hear, is notoriously socialist (so is Canada, but not as bad as France).

As a matter of fact, Canada is far more socialist than France, and there are European nations (such as Finland) which are far more socialist than Canada.

That aside, I'm curious to know why you're concerned about the prevalence of socialism (especially when we consider the fact that the earliest Christians were socialists.) It is a plain fact of life that the most socialist countries in the world (Canada, Sweden, Finland, etc.) have the highest standard of living, and some of the lowest crime rates.

This is also true of Australia (which has many socialist policies), even though we're not as sophisticated as the Europeans. :cool:
 
Upvote 0