Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved, just or unjust, sinner or saint?
JLB
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I said:
"The truth is the Word of God. Some of which you simply don't believe, based on your posts.
What Jesus said in John 10:28 was as clear as could be. There is nothing difficult in that verse. Jesus was speaking about the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal life.
The CAUSE of having (possessing eternal life) is Jesus Himself, proven by "I give them eternal life".
The EFFECT of having (possessing eternal life) is never perishing, proven by "and they shall never, no, not ever, perish".
If you disagree, please prove your disagreement. But what He said was very clear."
I do believe you haven't.
btw, lodging a disagreement isn't an explanation of anything. You have clearly communicated that your view is QUITE DIFFERENT than what Jesus plainly said.
Of course I don't. Your disagreement cannot be supported from Scripture.
yep. More snark.I'M snarky?
You're funny.
Now, if you were as good looking as OSAS101, you coulda maybe been a catch for some lucky girl.
I leave you to the others.
Till next time,,,
Her comment only shows just how far out of touch with Scripture her views are.Gods seal can be rescinded?
Esp given the promise, guarantee, pledge (solemn promise) God has given every believer regarding their being sealed with the Holy Spirit.John 6:27~~New American Standard Bible
"Do not work for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give to you, for on Him the Father, God, has set His seal."
I find it very disconcerting that a Christian believes that the Father will perhaps rescind the Son's seal.
What Jesus said in John 10:28 was as clear as could be.
I think the point is that he is IN Bible doctrine, unlike those who have shown their total resistance to truth.That’s for sure.
I do believe I have.I said:
"The truth is the Word of God. Some of which you simply don't believe, based on your posts.
What Jesus said in John 10:28 was as clear as could be. There is nothing difficult in that verse. Jesus was speaking about the CAUSE and EFFECT of possessing eternal life.
The CAUSE of having (possessing eternal life) is Jesus Himself, proven by "I give them eternal life".
The EFFECT of having (possessing eternal life) is never perishing, proven by "and they shall never, no, not ever, perish".
If you disagree, please prove your disagreement. But what He said was very clear."
I do believe you haven't.
btw, lodging a disagreement isn't an explanation of anything. You have clearly communicated that your view is QUITE DIFFERENT than what Jesus plainly said.
Of course I don't. Your disagreement cannot be supported from Scripture.
What is the truth?Gr8Grace said: ↑
Count me as one. I am a baby in bible doctrine,
I think the point is that he is IN Bible doctrine, unlike those who have shown their total resistance to truth.
There you go again, adding words to Scripture that aren't there, just to promote your own opinion and presumptions.He denies you.
JLB
It's Catherine Zeta Jones.yep. More snark.
ps: is your icon a younger version of you? Or are you just teasing?
I, otoh, believe what Paul wrote about the sealing ministry of the Holy Spirit. That it is a deposit which guarantees our inheritance for the day of redemption as God's possession, as Eph 1:14 says.Those who do not abide, remain in Christ as well as His teaching no longer has Christ.
Because of Eph 1;13,14 and John 10:28, this verse CANNOT refer to loss of salvation.If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:6
No, they don't "have access" to eternal life. But then again, you don't believe what Jesus said in John 10:28 either. He SAID "I GIVE them eternal life".Once a person is in Christ, they have access to the eternal life which is in Him.
No one can be removed from Christ, because all believers have been sealed IN HIM with the Holy Spirit.If they are removed from Him, they are no longer joined to the eternal life which is in Him.
Yes, it's clear that you have rejected the clear truth of Eph 1:13,14 and John 10:28.Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 2 John 9
You should read 2 Timothy 2:12 again.Dan the deacon said: ↑
Really? If you deny Christ, what does scripture say Christ does?
There you go again, adding words to Scripture that aren't there, just to promote your own opinion and presumptions.
The context (which you seem to love to ignore) is reigning with Christ, found in v.12A.
So, the "denial" in v.12B is in context of what is earned for enduring, which is reigning with Christ. So what is denied is the opposite of what is earned.
Those who deny Him will be denied the privilege of reigning with Christ.
I expect those who have blatantly rejected the teaching of Jesus regarding the FACT that recipients of eternal life shall never perish and claim in total opposition CAN perish will be denied the privilege of reigning with Christ.
Why bother answering this question, since you have demonstrated a total failure to understand the passage? iow, you don't even know what you're asking.Still waiting for anyone who promotes
OSAS to answer this question from the scriptures.
What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7
Is a sheep [born again Christian] who wanders away and becomes lost, saved or unsaved, just or unjust, sinner or saint?
JLB
Have you ever purchased a house?I, otoh, believe what Paul wrote about the sealing ministry of the Holy Spirit. That it is a deposit which guarantees our inheritance for the day of redemption as God's possession, as Eph 1:14 says.
Because of Eph 1;13,14 and John 10:28, this verse CANNOT refer to loss of salvation.
No, they don't "have access" to eternal life. But then again, you don't believe what Jesus said in John 10:28 either. He SAID "I GIVE them eternal life".
Here's what He DIDN'T say: "I give them "access to" eternal life".
Please STOP adding to Scripture.
No one can be removed from Christ, because all believers have been sealed IN HIM with the Holy Spirit.
Yes, it's clear that you have rejected the clear truth of Eph 1:13,14 and John 10:28.
Dan the deacon said: ↑
Really? If you deny Christ, what does scripture say Christ does?
There you go again, adding words to Scripture that aren't there, just to promote your own opinion and presumptions.
The context (which you seem to love to ignore) is reigning with Christ, found in v.12A.
So, the "denial" in v.12B is in context of what is earned for enduring, which is reigning with Christ. So what is denied is the opposite of what is earned.
Those who deny Him will be denied the privilege of reigning with Christ.
I expect those who have blatantly rejected the teaching of Jesus regarding the FACT that recipients of eternal life shall never perish and claim in total opposition CAN perish will be denied the privilege of reigning with Christ.
I just love the way you spout off about that which you know nothing.You can't take the truth.
The truth scares you and those of your belief and I don't really know why.
Please take up your concerns with the Lord Jesus, who stated that those He gives eternal life (which is WHEN they believe - John 5:24, 6:47, 1 John 5:13) shall never perish (John 10:28).It's wrong to declare that a person cannot lose their salvation no matter what they do or how they live.
And it's JUST AS PLAIN that once we have the Life Giver, we cannot lose Him.It's plain from scripture that if we have THE LIFE GIVER, Jesus, then we HAVE LIFE.
True of everyone who has never believed.If we DO NOT have the LIFE GIVER,
we DO NOT HAVE LIFE.
The Life Giver promised that the coming Holy Spirit would never leave us.How can we have life if the life-giver is not dwelling with us?
1 Corinthians 15:45
45So also it is written, "The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.
No Jesus, No Life.
John 10:28 JESUS SAID:
28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
Jesus gives eternal life to HIS SHEEP.
OPINION ALERT!!! Please back up your claims with Scripture.God is omnipotent and will allow nothing to take a believer from Him (except the believer himself).
Can you show any verse where a sheep became a goat? Or one of His sheep became not one of His sheep?IF WE ARE NOT HIS SHEEP,,,we will NOT have ETERNAL LIFE.
Except that, again, NONE of these verses support your claims.By FALLING AWAY:
1 Timothy 4:1
Hebrews 3:12
Mathew 24:10-13
Why bother answering this question, since you have demonstrated a total failure to understand the passage? iow, you don't even know what you're asking.
All 3 parables regarding being "lost" have to do with fellowship, not salvation.
So, the real question, that you have NEVER answered, nor can you, is this: where does the Bible clearly state that salvation can be lost?
I, otoh, believe what Paul wrote about the sealing ministry of the Holy Spirit. That it is a deposit which guarantees our inheritance for the day of redemption as God's possession, as Eph 1:14 says.
No, they don't "have access" to eternal life.
Wow. What a clear admission of just how much you don't know the Word of God!!Don't be so disconcerted!
On whom did the Father place the seal?
He placed the seal on Jesus, not on any man.
ONLY if one believes that God will or can go back on His Word. But what a stupid idea that is, huh.Jesus is God,,,do you suppose He would unseal the authority given to Him by Father?
Rather than this display of hysteria, please share any verse that even suggests that anyone can "abandon" the Holy Spirit. I don't even know what that would look like.The authority placed on man, this seal, is dependent on the HOLY SPIRIT...if the person abandons the Holy Spirit, does that person still have the seal?
Oh, yeah. Use metaphors to prove your points. Jesus used metaphors for the purpose of stating truth that rejectors couldn't understand to fulfill Scripture.Romans 11:19-22
Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God's kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
Are you suggesting that any one verse ain't good enough for you?Cute!
LOL
The treasure trove of doctrine is limited to one verse and one doctrine.
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