Seeking Help/Guidance

[digstar]

I am brand new to this forum so hopefully i can post this with no problems. I am probably much younger than most of the people that post on this forum, but I will try to maintain a mature and steady discussion. I come here seeking 2 things mainly 1) I need someone to talk to about this, so this will more than likely be a long post 2) advice and help from people wiser than myself.
Let me start by saying I am not a Christian, but I am not an Atheist. I am a seeker, currently seeking a true meaning in life, and I in no way bash or downplay any religion, including christianity. I am not a non-believer because I dont think that it is not possible that Christ was the son of God sent to earth to save man from his sin, i simply dont know personally if i believe that, or if i have the strength to do what is nessicary to live that life. I was brought up in a home where religion was not all that important, but my parents told me that i needed to be a christian and love god, and because my parents said so, I did it. Then as i got older i became self-aware i really started thinking about what this meant, decided that i didnt know if i honestly believe that, and began searching for the truth, and here i stand. I have no attended church since 2001 because people were treating me badly and I lost all interest in doing so.
Here is my main point...I have tryed to reason with myself for about the past year going through data, information, writings, what have you, to try and decide what i believe, and this is what i have come to.
The ancient greek philosophical saying says, "Ex Nihlo, Nil Fit" (pardon the spelling) which translates to what we would say as, "Through nothing, nothing comes", basically saying that something can not come from nothing. I believe this. This inturn shows thats if there was ever once nothing, than there would still be nothing. This inturn says that there has always necessarly been something. So be it god, a rock, an atom, there has always been something around. This brings me to my next realization/point. Creation. I basically boiled it down to the point that you believe that everything has been around forever, or everything has been created at one point. Now, first of all, if everything has been around forever, then this moment we are in is not possible, because time would have already passed us by. Think of it this way, i draw a line like this (12------------------------12) representing the 24 hours day (12 in the morning to 12 at night) and tell you to put a dot at 3 pm. You can do it. If i give you a line like this (----------------------12) with no defined beginning, and tell you to mark at 3 aclock, you can not do so because you dont know where to begin. Its the same with time, suggesting that there must have been a starting point. The other main point is the 2nd law of therodynamics states that all things naturally go to disorder. This would mean if everything has always been around, it would be in complete disorder.
After these realizations i came to realize that there has always been something, and that this something must have created everything. That there must have been a time of beginning rather than everything just naturally exisisting. Now, call it what you me, but i guess this means that i believe in a "god", a creator. This is where i am stuck at.
I dont know if God is personal. I dont feel god, and i dont hear god. I go to a chrsitian school, and i have many people tell me that they constantly hear god in their heart, and many of these people are people i trust, but when i ask them how, they just say, oh well, you can feel it when he talks to you. I dont understand this. I do understand that if you are not in the grace of god, he has no reason to bless you, even though he still may. But how can god expect someone who does not believe in him to begin to believe in him if he does not reveal himself to them. You hear of people having god revealed to them all the time, but there are also many people that die atheists. Where was god in their lives?
Also another question that crosses my mind is, is it possible for a "creator" god to create everything and everyone, and then not be a "personal" god back to them. Would a god create everything around us then tell us to pretty much fend for ourselves?
My last point i am going to include in this post is the fact that, from what i understand, when u are accepting christ, you are pretty much handing your life over and changing the way you live, and pretty much changing your self. You are dedicating your life to a higher cause. This seems like a pretty radical change to me. Well if it is so radical, then one who accpets this would naturally want to go out and spread the love of christ to everyone, would he not?, considering that that is the most important thing for christians to do, spread the love of christ so that noone can parish in hell. But people dont, some do, but most from what i can see dont. Why do they not? Are they faking it? Are they being luke warm? Is that type of christianity acceptable in gods eyes? These are only a few of the questions that i have that have led me to be a skeptic about christianity and a personal god.
Now i do understand that you can not box god up and explain him on paper. I think that those who know him best would describe him as an experience more than anything, but i still just dont understand. I dont know if this post is acatully going anywhere, but i just really needed to get this off my mind. If anyone has any comments or suggestions or anything at all please post. It would be greatfully appreciated.
-dig

 

[AbbieDunne]

heya!! Im not sure how to address some of the things you said but hopefully I can help with some things!!

So be it god, a rock, an atom, there has always been something around.

I don’t know if this will help, but you’re saying that you believe there was always something? A rock...think about every thing in this world, water, movement, the way all your organs work perfectly together...a rock couldn’t make that could it? And an atom, 1 atom could have made one thing, since it can’t get out of that thing once it is in there (if that makes sense) and there is obviously more than one thing in this world. It only makes sense to think that some one powerful, and smart beyond our imagination could make an earth like this, with everything working perfectly...think about how the body works, each part of you does something, and works of something else...what else other than God could of made something so complex? I was thinking about this yesterday so i5s good that I saw your post today...I hope that made sense!!

I go to a Christian school, and I have many people tell me that they constantly hear god in their heart, and many of these people are people i trust, but when I ask them how, they just say, oh well, you can feel it when he talks to you. I don’t understand this. I do understand that if you are not in the grace of god, he has no reason to bless you, even though he still may. But how can god expect someone who does not believe in him to begin to believe in him if he does not reveal himself to them.

God can speak to people, and I guess there is no way of explaining it, I know this isn’t what you want to hear but I agree with your friends, you can just feel it. You need to have a living relationship with God, give your life to him and he will speak to you, the bible says that he has a plan for every one.

Also another question that crosses my mind is, is it possible for a "creator" god to create everything and everyone, and then not be a "personal" god back to them. Would a god create everything around us then tell us to pretty much fend for ourselves?

We have free will, God didn’t create us like robots, he doesn’t want us to love him because that’s the way he made it, he wants us to love him because we want to...not because that’s the way we were made

My last point i am going to include in this post is the fact that, from what i understand, when u are accepting christ, you are pretty much handing your life over and changing the way you live, and pretty much changing your self. You are dedicating your life to a higher cause. This seems like a pretty radical change to

me.

This is a decision only you can make. It is a radical change, but if you feel ready then it will be the best change you ever make

I hope this has helped a little!! Feel free to PM me or email me at delirious_for_him@hotmail.co.uk
Abbie xxx

 

[Deb7777]

I am brand new to this forum so hopefully i can post this with no problems. I am probably much younger than most of the people that post on this forum, but I will try to maintain a mature and steady discussion. I come here seeking 2 things mainly 1) I need someone to talk to about this, so this will more than likely be a long post 2) advice and help from people wiser than myself.
Let me start by saying I am not a Christian, but I am not an Atheist. I am a seeker, currently seeking a true meaning in life, and I in no way bash or downplay any religion, including christianity. I am not a non-believer because I dont think that it is not possible that Christ was the son of God sent to earth to save man from his sin, i simply dont know personally if i believe that, or if i have the strength to do what is nessicary to live that life. I was brought up in a home where religion was not all that important, but my parents told me that i needed to be a christian and love god, and because my parents said so, I did it. Then as i got older i became self-aware i really started thinking about what this meant, decided that i didnt know if i honestly believe that, and began searching for the truth, and here i stand. I have no attended church since 2001 because people were treating me badly and I lost all interest in doing so.
Here is my main point...I have tryed to reason with myself for about the past year going through data, information, writings, what have you, to try and decide what i believe, and this is what i have come to.
The ancient greek philosophical saying says, "Ex Nihlo, Nil Fit" (pardon the spelling) which translates to what we would say as, "Through nothing, nothing comes", basically saying that something can not come from nothing. I believe this. This inturn shows thats if there was ever once nothing, than there would still be nothing. This inturn says that there has always necessarly been something. So be it god, a rock, an atom, there has always been something around. This brings me to my next realization/point. Creation. I basically boiled it down to the point that you believe that everything has been around forever, or everything has been created at one point. Now, first of all, if everything has been around forever, then this moment we are in is not possible, because time would have already passed us by. Think of it this way, i draw a line like this (12------------------------12) representing the 24 hours day (12 in the morning to 12 at night) and tell you to put a dot at 3 pm. You can do it. If i give you a line like this (----------------------12) with no defined beginning, and tell you to mark at 3 aclock, you can not do so because you dont know where to begin. Its the same with time, suggesting that there must have been a starting point. The other main point is the 2nd law of therodynamics states that all things naturally go to disorder. This would mean if everything has always been around, it would be in complete disorder.
After these realizations i came to realize that there has always been something, and that this something must have created everything. That there must have been a time of beginning rather than everything just naturally exisisting. Now, call it what you me, but i guess this means that i believe in a "god", a creator. This is where i am stuck at.
I dont know if God is personal. I dont feel god, and i dont hear god. I go to a chrsitian school, and i have many people tell me that they constantly hear god in their heart, and many of these people are people i trust, but when i ask them how, they just say, oh well, you can feel it when he talks to you. I dont understand this. I do understand that if you are not in the grace of god, he has no reason to bless you, even though he still may. But how can god expect someone who does not believe in him to begin to believe in him if he does not reveal himself to them. You hear of people having god revealed to them all the time, but there are also many people that die atheists. Where was god in their lives?
Also another question that crosses my mind is, is it possible for a "creator" god to create everything and everyone, and then not be a "personal" god back to them. Would a god create everything around us then tell us to pretty much fend for ourselves?
My last point i am going to include in this post is the fact that, from what i understand, when u are accepting christ, you are pretty much handing your life over and changing the way you live, and pretty much changing your self. You are dedicating your life to a higher cause. This seems like a pretty radical change to me. Well if it is so radical, then one who accpets this would naturally want to go out and spread the love of christ to everyone, would he not?, considering that that is the most important thing for christians to do, spread the love of christ so that noone can parish in hell. But people dont, some do, but most from what i can see dont. Why do they not? Are they faking it? Are they being luke warm? Is that type of christianity acceptable in gods eyes? These are only a few of the questions that i have that have led me to be a skeptic about christianity and a personal god.
Now i do understand that you can not box god up and explain him on paper. I think that those who know him best would describe him as an experience more than anything, but i still just dont understand. I dont know if this post is acatully going anywhere, but i just really needed to get this off my mind. If anyone has any comments or suggestions or anything at all please post. It would be greatfully appreciated.
-dig

Hi digstar, welcome, I would try to keep it simple at this time. You feel you might have a Creator which Christians would say ,yes. Say a prayer to God once a day to ask him to help you get to know him better. Then thank God for things that you are thankful in your life, remembering to thank God for your food is good and gets us to start to appreciate the things God has provided us with. We do believe God is personal and he loves us like no one else so you can share everything with him knowing he hears and cares about you. You can lift up prayer attentions to God who will answer in his own way, sometimes a way we can percieve in this life sometimes in a way we will be able to percieve in heaven for we will see everything much more clearly but all prayers are good and not wasted when we lift up our thanksgivings and concerns to God. We believe God has always communicated with his children since day one and what we need to know for our good and to be pleasing to God is preserved in the bible. We have free will to choose good or evil and the consequences those choses have for our life, hence the wisdom of God leading his children to choose the good and have life to the full. Since the world is a fallen condition through disobedience to God in the beginning we are call to persevere in good and to await the fulfillment of total renewal by God at the end of time where good and evil will have a final separation. We believe God has sent us his greatest blessing in his beloved Son to reconcile men and women back to God through perfect love and obedience to the father's will in his human nature which Christ glorifies the father and unites us in an unbreakable bond, heaven gates are open to recieve God's adopted children through the gift of his only begotten Son. Get to know Christ, take time to read his teachings and asked him to help you to know the way, the truth, and the life, God bless.

 

[ALIgator]

Hey, well I don't have time right now to adress each of your individual questions, but there are a couple things I want to say. God does want to have a personal relationship with each and every person on this earth, but He is not going to force it on anyone. He wants it to be a choice for us, so we each are able to decide whether or not we want this relationship. Also, when you say that you don't think God has 'revealed' Himself to you, what exactly are you expecting Him to do? I have a good relationship with God, but I never had one specific experience where all of the sudden I realized that He was real. And you are right in saying that as Christians we should be doing everything we can to spread the gospel, but unfortunately most of us tend to forget how important this is. In a way I guess we can sometimes tak it for granted that we have such an amazing God in our lives. I have to go for now, but I will pray for you and if you need to talk to someone, feel free to PM me anytime.
God Bless
~Ali

 

[L.A.W.]

digstar, do not judge Yahuhveh because of people, for if you do, then you build a vain image of Him that is of your own imagination that will lead you more into confusion. If you truly want to know Him, then give your time to Him. For example, it's like saying, if you never try talking to me and walking with me daily, then you'll never know who I am. The same thing applies with Yahushua. Yahuhveh and Yahushua are always there, you just haven't let yourself notice him. From the beginning, man hid from Him, but he has been looking for us, but we hid from him. Study and meditate on the scriptures daily. Read the gospel. He is there waiting for you to notice him. He's waiting for you to make the choice to walk with Him.

 

[digstar]

I understand that you are not supposed to judge god by the people that claim obedience to him. But why do so many people just not care? I appreciate the comments and i will take some time to think about what you all have said. Concerning god "revealing" himself for me, i dont mean that i am waiting for god to open the clouds and be like "hey man, believe in me, im here." I mean it like this, i have my doubts. Sometimes i really believe that god is there listening, but more than often, i take a look around, and i see suffering, people judging everyone, violieve all this trash, and i just think, wow, we are here by ourself, left to do the best we can with what we have. I dont know exactly how to explain what i am waiting for, i just simply want a sign from god that he is there. Nothing special, but i just simply cannot hand my life over to some unseen force that i dont know for 100% is even there. I guess thats where faith comes in, but is that to imply christianity is about blind faith. You just believe and hope your right. Im sorry if i sound hostile, i have nothing against christians or the christian faith, i am just trying to understand it better through wiser people, because the "Christians" i have known im my life have just confused me.

 

[Deb7777]

I understand that you are not supposed to judge god by the people that claim obedience to him. But why do so many people just not care? I appreciate the comments and i will take some time to think about what you all have said. Concerning god "revealing" himself for me, i dont mean that i am waiting for god to open the clouds and be like "hey man, believe in me, im here." I mean it like this, i have my doubts. Sometimes i really believe that god is there listening, but more than often, i take a look around, and i see suffering, people judging everyone, violieve all this trash, and i just think, wow, we are here by ourself, left to do the best we can with what we have. I dont know exactly how to explain what i am waiting for, i just simply want a sign from god that he is there. Nothing special, but i just simply cannot hand my life over to some unseen force that i dont know for 100% is even there. I guess thats where faith comes in, but is that to imply christianity is about blind faith. You just believe and hope your right. Im sorry if i sound hostile, i have nothing against christians or the christian faith, i am just trying to understand it better through wiser people, because the "Christians" i have known im my life have just confused me.

Hi digstar, unfortunately the christians you've come across have not inspired you, I would suggest reading the lives of the saints and martyrs, inspiring beyond words is their life and love for Christ. Christ has been active throughout history in so many miracles and great signs especially among missionaries bringing the faith to people with deep seated superstitions. God bless on your journey in coming closer to your Creator.

 

[dvd_holc]

hi digstar,

First, you have been given enough insight to believe that a sustaining force for the cosmos is out there. If that entity does it for the large cosmos...then we have to ponder if he does it for the smallest. We can look at atoms and their subparts. Upon reflection, we gain insight that there are striking similiarities to the great cosmos. Then, I would conclude that is because the same entity is sustaining the smallest parts. Now we look in the middle, we find here there is disharmony that causes destruction and pain and there is harmony that causes life and love. So then, we question are both his? If the cosmos is sustain by that entity then I would conclude that by his envolvment in our life because we aren't a polar oppisite to everything else in the cosmos we are sustained by that entity also. Then following question is where does disharmony come from...Christianity believes there is another entity who seeks to develop a similiar but destructive relationship with us that ultimately seeks to corrupt and destroy the cosmos.

Your questions of where is God in the midst of this are very good. I believe it shows that there is a desire to know how he is acting in the midst of pain and struggle. And, how does God go about restoring harmony? His answer, more often than not, is what are you doing because of it. We not someone stand up for the oppressed?

He has given you a limited amount of control to develop your idenity for something greater. He wants you envolved in this life. You see a place that someone can do good...so what are you waiting for? Will you participate?

God created us in his image as a lesser that some how still reflects his image. God is free and above of all things. We were given a certain degree of effective will that reflect our lesser being. God actively participates in everything in existence bring harmony to all things. God wants our active participation in bring about harmony. Harmony is love. God stands screaming to us love and produce harmony. Will you listen?

Also, don't be afraid of asking questions....ask them all. I don't think it will simple do to have unanswered questions. Some questions come back to do you have faith that God can do something or not. Some people have allowed their comfort zone of just giving their unsolved questions to God to be really quick in most discussions. They have a feeling of knowing where it will go so the just quickly give it up. But, I don't accept that. I don't think you really think that will do either...So don't...there are many people who are dedicated to trying to answer or give answers to tough questions...any question that you come up with is not totally new...someone has dealt with it. So then seek them out to help guide you because in your seeking you are looking for God to reveal himself to you. He has made himself subtle in nature to us. So then faith in him at time is the oppisite of sight and the oppisite of doubt; whereas, we are sure in the things unseen and certain in things we hope for.

So what do you want? Knowledge and/or the best possible life that is in harmony of the cosmos and that may not in harmony with all of humanity right now?

 

[Jesus1stKing]

Hi digstar,



Wow, you have done a great job of being concise and articulate; in addition, you have asked the questions that have rocked the world since right after Adam. I too was a seeker when I was younger, I searched through most of man’s teachings: Boodisum (S/P), Taoism, Easter-mysticism, American Indian, Wicken, Catholic, Lutheran, Muslim, etc. to no avail. I new there must be something, but despite all of my efforts and openness I could find nothing that worked at filling the void and longing that I knew was there. So I went on with my life having given up on this apparently futile search.

Then one day I was working for a guy who kept bugging me to “come to church” with him, I kept avoiding this issue for a long time. Finally to get him to leave me alone I decided to show up. Actually it wasn’t premeditated, I had been parting nonstop since Friday, and come Sunday morning when everyone else was passed out and I was setting watching the sun rise with nothing to do and no one to do it with the thought struck me that this would be the perfect opportunity. I would show up it a tank top, a pair of raggedy cut-offs, unshaven, and half-drunk. That would get him off my back and keep everyone else away.

Well it did not work that way, I showed up and was greeted like a long lost relative. I was allowed to make my self at home, was treated to “Rock-N-Roll” sounding music, and a “Teaching”. It was like nothing I had ever experienced from my past experiences with various forms of Christianity. I decided to come back and give it a fair chance, well that was the beginning, I have been going now for over 15 yrs.

It was years later as I grew in maturity that I realized that I had been hearing God for most of my life, I just did not know who it was. Every time I heard that little voice in the back of my head that said, “You shouldn’t do that”, or “is that the RIGHT thing to do”, or any one of a hundred other things we all hear and learn to ignore.

So when you say you are waiting for God to reveal Himself to you I say stop ignoring Him when He does speak, but rather learn to hear Him, and to see Him in every aspect of your life, for He is there. He is in the rising of the sun, the blossoming of every flower, the birth of every child [see these things and tell me you do not “feel” God in them], the still soft voice in the back of your head that you have almost forgotten how to hear, the one some people refer to as you sub/self conscious.

You have presented some excellent points; ones I hope I remember the next time someone asks me to give them an example of the existence of God from the Beginning of the beginning. You have even done a superb job of disproving the basis of evolution. You have fallen for the same old trick that gets so many people side tracked. You have been trying sooooo HARD to see, feel, and hear God that you haven’t been quiet long enough to see Him in the little things, or to hear His still soft voice as He whispers to you through out every day, Or to even enjoy the shear pleasure that can be found in the nothing things like a beautiful sunrise or a double rainbow.

You ask about how He can just leave us to fend for ourselves, I say that He is always there telling us the right way to do things {those feelings, and whispers you have learned to almost ignore}. However as most Christians will tell you we have this thing called “free will” that allows us to over-ride those actions of God and do as we see fit [no matter how much it may hurt someone else].

Finally, you ask about giving your entire life over to God once you accept Christ as your savior. To this I have to start off by clarifying the fact that although you give you give your entire life over to God, you do not necessarily create the change in yourself intentionally [although from what I have heard some people have succeeded in doing so], rather God acts upon you creating changes within you. Resulting in a desire to conform to Him and His teachings, thus enabling changes within you to exist. So as a result, once again, that “Free Will” gets involved resulting in some people being able to overcome the desire to obey God, go out boldly, and spread the good news of the gospel of Christ.

 

[bethdinsmore]

Hi digstar -
I didn't come to Christianity by a leap of faith, but by an intellectual path (see my profile for specifics).

If you want some websites about external proofs of the Bible's accuracy, here are a couple:
www.tektonics.org
www.probe.org

Happy hunting. Let me know if I can help.
God bless you in your search - aloha in Jesus, friend.

 

[Johnnz]

God exists outside of time. He is eternal. This world as we know it had a beginning, and will come to an end, in accordance with God's intentions for it.

Yes. God should be the most important factor in anyone's life. Some don't give God the priority He shoud have. Also, the christian life involves work, family, etc. It is far more than just "telling people about Jesus".

John
NZ

 

[matthewgoh]

Hello Digstar,

Please allow me to say something. I see you are a smart man. Your thinking and analysis are very wise. But my advice to you is to seek no more. God will not show his "presence" to you. What you have to do is to pray and accept Jesus as your savior, and your eyes will be opened, and you will "see" God. Please be patience with me, analyze my theory below (in notes form) that I have learned through my experience and my understanding of the bible.

OLD TESTAMENT

1) God created mankind.

2) Man became sinner. Man is so wicked.

3) No one could enter heaven unless he followed God's commandments, i.e. if he was sinless.

4) God showed his presence to mankind. Hoping them to fear him and repent.

5) But man turned away from God, even if they could see his miracles and signs.

6) The treasure in heaven is beyond imagination. God was willing to kill many many souls in order to save just one soul alone.

7) Man was helpless. The evil completely destroyed mankind and God's creation and purpose.

8) God was continuing working. He never abandon mankind, as he is loving and just.

NEW TESTAMENT

1) Out of love (so strong), God sent his son Jesus (which is God himself) to come to this world to be crucified on the cross, so that man's sins can be forgiven.

2) Since God is just, he imposed one condition to receive the salvation. The condition is; we must believe in Christ by faith alone. That's we believe without seeing the presence of God.

3) Jusus said; we cannot not see God, unless we see Christ.

4) This message is to be preached to the whole world.

THE PRESENT AGE

1) The salvation made possible by Christ's crucificion is so important to God, that's beyond words.

2) The condition to receive salvation; "believe by faith alone" is similarly important, even God himself cannot over-rule it.

3) God cannot show his presence to mankind, or else, the condition of salvation will be broken.

4) As such, no one can find God (by reason or logic). The only way to find him is by believing in Christ, which also guarantees him an eternal life.

5) God physically "hides" himself from the world, but spiritually, he is working in the hearts of Christians worldwide.

6) The good news of salvation is preached to the whole world. Salvation of mankind is obviously much more important than showing God's glory.

Hope I am able to contribute something here. I wish you have a present spiritual journey.

Notes: The above theory is my personal experience and understanding. Please do no take any offence, if it does not fit with your ideology and believe. May God bless you all.

 

[Phospho]

I am brand new to this forum so hopefully i can post this with no problems. I am probably much younger than most of the people that post on this forum, but I will try to maintain a mature and steady discussion. I come here seeking 2 things mainly 1) I need someone to talk to about this, so this will more than likely be a long post 2) advice and help from people wiser than myself.
Let me start by saying I am not a Christian, but I am not an Atheist. I am a seeker, currently seeking a true meaning in life, and I in no way bash or downplay any religion, including christianity. I am not a non-believer because I dont think that it is not possible that Christ was the son of God sent to earth to save man from his sin, i simply dont know personally if i believe that, or if i have the strength to do what is nessicary to live that life.

Digstar....lets start from the bold words up there, what makes you doubt that Jesus is the Son of God?

This is where i am stuck at. I dont know if God is personal. I dont feel god, and i dont hear god.

God is personal...He knows how many hairs are on your head, and He knows your very name. He is so personal that in eternity He has told us that He will give to those who overcome a white stone with a new name written in it that no one else will know but just you and Him. Why? I believe that its because He wants to spend intimate quality time with us, and when it is your turn, He is going to call that special name, and when He calls it you will hear it and go to Him, because you will know that He is waiting for you...to spend time with Him.

We don't hear God until we have renewed our minds and begin walking in the spirit, as the Word teaches us in passages in Romans chapters 7, 8 and 12, and in Galatians 5.16-17 for starters. Until we begin walking in the spirit we do not have that connection with God...that connection that we need in order to hear his voice and be able to discern His voice from our wn thoughts.

My last point i am going to include in this post is the fact that, from what i understand, when u are accepting christ, you are pretty much handing your life over and changing the way you live, and pretty much changing your self. You are dedicating your life to a higher cause. This seems like a pretty radical change to me. Well if it is so radical, then one who accpets this would naturally want to go out and spread the love of christ to everyone, would he not?, considering that that is the most important thing for christians to do, spread the love of christ so that noone can parish in hell. But people dont, some do, but most from what i can see dont. Why do they not? Are they faking it? Are they being luke warm?

There are people out there who are just playing church, and they will pay dearly for it. There are also people out there who hear the Word, but don't practice what they are being taught...they are decieving themselves as James says, into believing that they are christians. A christian is one who follows Christ's life, imitating Him...one who is not practicing righteousness is not a christian, no matter what they say, just as going to Burger King doesn't make you a Whopper with cheese.....I'm making myself hungry...this is why Jesus spoke His infamous words in Matthew chapter 25:31-46, those kind of people that you are talking about are condemned by this passage unless they straighten up and fly right.

Is that type of christianity acceptable in gods eyes?

You are very smart, and I believe that you already know that the answer to your question is "no." there will be many people coming to Jesus on judgment day saying "Lord, Lord," that will be turned away into hell because after they got saved they were taught and believed the lie that they don't have to obey God to be saved. I don't want to start a debate here, but if you want more in depth info, PM me.

These are only a few of the questions that i have that have led me to be a skeptic about christianity and a personal god..... If anyone has any comments or suggestions or anything at all please post. It would be greatfully appreciated.
-dig

They are good questions, and all of your questions should be answered. Faith in Christ is the only "faith" in the world that is based upon facts, any religion that you can dig up is not, it is only a man-made system that can be demonstrated to be man-made. Only True Christianity can be demonstrated to be what it claims to be in Holy Writ. You are on a good path, seeker, and I am convinced by your sincerety that God will reveal Himself to you in due time, although it may not be in a way that you might be expecting.

Blessings!

 

[digstar]

I would like to thank you all for your imput on this thread. I am still having a hard time making a leap to religion. These words are intersting, comforting, and intelligent as i sit here and read them, but they lose their affect as i go out into the world and i see so many of my friends feel so confident that there is no god, or that he doesnt care. It is such an inner struggle for me daily, because i do feel like there is something missing in my life, and i try hard to find it, and when im at school i have all my christian friends tell me one thing, but when im with some of my family or other friends they live a completly different life. I struggle to find the words right now to express how I feel. I am still doing much soul searching almost every night, wether it be writing songs/journal entrys or reading articles on the internet. I am starting to understand more and more that pherhaps God is more of an experience, and is not something you can just sum up in a few paragraphs. Still, the more indepth i get into it, the more skeptisisms pop into my head. I am almost scared to try to live the life of christianity. I fear that if i did, i would fail and just be another pretender and lead more people away from christianity then towards it. One thing i dont understand, and i apologize for my negligence, but how can you all have such faith, such blind faith, as some have said that god cannot phiscally show himself, when there is so much hate and wrong in the world. I mean i dont understand how such a great faith can be held in something like that, as so many things happen daily pointing to no father figure wathcing over us, no God; but to those who can hold this faith i truly admire that. That is why i have always said that you can tell when someone is a TRUE christian, you can just tell by the way they live their lives. Those kind of people in my life are the only reason that i am still even interested about god. Either they are crazy or I am missing something. Anyways, i apologize for rambling on again, i hope everyone had a good xmas and a happy new year.
-dig

 

[Deb7777]

I would like to thank you all for your imput on this thread. I am still having a hard time making a leap to religion. These words are intersting, comforting, and intelligent as i sit here and read them, but they lose their affect as i go out into the world and i see so many of my friends feel so confident that there is no god, or that he doesnt care. It is such an inner struggle for me daily, because i do feel like there is something missing in my life, and i try hard to find it, and when im at school i have all my christian friends tell me one thing, but when im with some of my family or other friends they live a completly different life. I struggle to find the words right now to express how I feel. I am still doing much soul searching almost every night, wether it be writing songs/journal entrys or reading articles on the internet. I am starting to understand more and more that pherhaps God is more of an experience, and is not something you can just sum up in a few paragraphs. Still, the more indepth i get into it, the more skeptisisms pop into my head. I am almost scared to try to live the life of christianity. I fear that if i did, i would fail and just be another pretender and lead more people away from christianity then towards it. One thing i dont understand, and i apologize for my negligence, but how can you all have such faith, such blind faith, as some have said that god cannot phiscally show himself, when there is so much hate and wrong in the world. I mean i dont understand how such a great faith can be held in something like that, as so many things happen daily pointing to no father figure wathcing over us, no God; but to those who can hold this faith i truly admire that. That is why i have always said that you can tell when someone is a TRUE christian, you can just tell by the way they live their lives. Those kind of people in my life are the only reason that i am still even interested about god. Either they are crazy or I am missing something. Anyways, i apologize for rambling on again, i hope everyone had a good xmas and a happy new year.
-dig

Hi digstar, as far as God showing himself, he has done that constantly through history. Read about the Saints and the stigmata, about their bodies being incorrupt after centuries, eucharistic miracles, there is alot of interaction in Christian history. Miracles definitely did not go away but in God's wisdom to who experience what in life. As far as hate and evil in the world, we see things through Christ eyes. He warns people that he will separate the goats from the sheep, that those who hear his message but do not put into practice his words are like branches cut off from the tree, to be cast into the fire. So, the problem of evil is temporary for a believer in Jesus, he treats the subject very seriousily because it will be a matter of heaven or hell but he came with the message of salvation and offered himself up on our behalf so the fault does not lie with him but with us who would still choose evil over good. God bless.

 

[dvd_holc]

I would like to thank you all for your imput on this thread. I am still having a hard time making a leap to religion. These words are intersting, comforting, and intelligent as i sit here and read them, but they lose their affect as i go out into the world and i see so many of my friends feel so confident that there is no god, or that he doesnt care. It is such an inner struggle for me daily, because i do feel like there is something missing in my life, and i try hard to find it, and when im at school i have all my christian friends tell me one thing, but when im with some of my family or other friends they live a completly different life. I struggle to find the words right now to express how I feel. I am still doing much soul searching almost every night, wether it be writing songs/journal entrys or reading articles on the internet. I am starting to understand more and more that pherhaps God is more of an experience, and is not something you can just sum up in a few paragraphs. Still, the more indepth i get into it, the more skeptisisms pop into my head. I am almost scared to try to live the life of christianity. I fear that if i did, i would fail and just be another pretender and lead more people away from christianity then towards it. One thing i dont understand, and i apologize for my negligence, but how can you all have such faith, such blind faith, as some have said that god cannot phiscally show himself, when there is so much hate and wrong in the world. I mean i dont understand how such a great faith can be held in something like that, as so many things happen daily pointing to no father figure wathcing over us, no God; but to those who can hold this faith i truly admire that. That is why i have always said that you can tell when someone is a TRUE christian, you can just tell by the way they live their lives. Those kind of people in my life are the only reason that i am still even interested about god. Either they are crazy or I am missing something. Anyways, i apologize for rambling on again, i hope everyone had a good xmas and a happy new year.
-dig

Yes, you can tell a Christain by the way they lived. Jesus said that in John 8:31-32. And, God does not hold back his presence because evil is here. We believe that Devil comes before God in Heaven (Chapter 1 and 2 of Job). So then, how can the Devil be present in Heaven and God reside there then here on Earth the presence of Satan prevent God from coming? Anyway...God actively participates in live. He has chosen to be fully present here yet. He will on day. But his Holy Spirit dwells here subverting competing stories that mislead and destroy his reality and creation. It appears that you surronded by those who listen to the competing worldviews. We are more than that. I have heard the saying it is admirable that people that have faith there is no god...but I believe that is nuts. I see the logic, but I totally disagree with it. Do we say a person who every day walks to work without shoes on a hot pavement is admirable because that person has faith that what they are doing is best for them?

God is actively trying to subvert the competing stories and worldviews that are trying to keep you from experiencing true freedom, harmony, and love.

We don't have a list of goals to accomplish to be a Christian. Success in being a Christian is not a measurement or value that can be measured. Rather, we are joyful for the opportunity to participate in a loving way. We can set things to accomplish like bringing you to faith, but be active in bring you to faith does not define, measure, or validate us being true Christians. It is very human to list deeds for validation of being or doing something. However, that is human standards....We are saved, receive, give, and participate in grace which is never earned.

 

[Bain_Adaneth]

Digstar


You quoted:
[I am not a non-believer because I dont think that it is not possible that Christ was the son of God sent to earth to save man from his sin, i simply dont know personally if i believe that, or if i have the strength to do what is nessicary to live that life.]

I don’t think anyone could live a Christian life without letting God take care of everything. It’s not a question of your strength, but a question of your faith in what God can do through you.

You Quoted:
[I have no attended church since 2001 because people were treating me badly and I lost all interest in doing so.]

Not a good enough excuse. The church is the body of Christ. If you’re a Christian, you need to be a part of that family…..you’re there for God right?...not the people….pick another church and try again….there is no perfect church…except Christ……

You Quoted:
[Here is my main point...I have tryed to reason with myself for about the past year going through data, information, writings, what have you, to try and decide what i believe, and this is what i have come to.]

As far as I know, being saved depends on your faith of accepting Christ as your Savior….

You’re stuck, because you try to use documents and materials to find what you believe.

You Quoted:
[I dont know if God is personal. I dont feel god, and i dont hear god. I go to a chrsitian school, and i have many people tell me that they constantly hear god in their heart, and many of these people are people i trust, but when i ask them how, they just say, oh well, you can feel it when he talks to you. I dont understand this]

The Holy Spirit is given to you when you accept Jesus Christ as your Savior. People receive the Holy Spirit, and they also read the Word of God, so they can do His Will. That’s why it’s important to read the bible, because you will know God better. And then it will be easier to do God’s will and follow the Holy Spirit….because how can a person do God’s will when they don’t even know Him. The bible will tell about Him.

You Quoted:
[I do understand that if you are not in the grace of god, he has no reason to bless you, even though he still may. But how can god expect someone who does not believe in him to begin to believe in him if he does not reveal himself to them. You hear of people having god revealed to them all the time, but there are also many people that die atheists. Where was god in their lives?]

Sometimes we don’t understand why He does things, but how can we? We don’t even understand how the heck our bodies start to work….we record things about ourselves, but we have no idea how life gets into a human being….except by reading the word of God….God tells us this, He says in Isaiah 55:9

"As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.

He is an awesome mastermind beyond our imagination….so we should stop pondering and pondering on things that no one has been able to understand….

Sometimes God has revealed Himself to people who don’t believe in Him….Take for example the Apostle Paul in the bible, before He was a believer, He himself killed Christians….but then Jesus revealed Himself to him:

6"About noon as I came near Damascus, suddenly a bright light from heaven flashed around me. 7I fell to the ground and heard a voice say to me, 'Saul! Saul! Why do you persecute me?'

8" 'Who are you, Lord?' I asked.

" 'I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting,' he replied.
Acts 22:6-8

Others believe, because they have searched for the Truth, and ask God to reveal it to them….Jesus says seek and you shall find….so seek…

You Quoted:
[Also another question that crosses my mind is, is it possible for a "creator" god to create everything and everyone, and then not be a "personal" god back to them. Would a god create everythin]

This is another reason why you should read the bible….the first few pages would give you the answer….God created a paradise for the first humans and took care of them, he gave them love…and watched over them…they practically owned the place…until one day, they decided to disobey him, which caused them to sin greatly…

Even then He was always with humans, until they just didn’t want to follow Him anymore, and they were sinful…..sin separates humans from God….so it was humankind that ran away from Him, not the other way around….

You Quote:
[My last point i am going to include in this post is the fact that, from what i understand, when u are accepting christ, you are pretty much handing your life over and changing the way you live, and pretty much changing your self. You are dedicating your life to a higher cause. This seems like a pretty radical change to me. Well if it is so radical, then one who accpets this would naturally want to go out and spread the love of christ to everyone, would he not?, considering that that is the most important thing for christians to do, spread the love of christ so that noone can parish in hell. But people dont, some do, but most from what i can see dont. Why do they not? Are they faking it? Are they being luke warm? Is that type of christianity acceptable in gods eyes? These are only a few of the questions that i have that have led me to be a skeptic about christianity and a personal god.]

Anyone who has the Holy Spirit in them would want to do God’s will….that is a great joy of spreading the Word….if they don't, they are either not saved, or they’re not doing what they’re supposed to…..God says if he gives you a gift, and you don’t use it, but keep it for yourself, you are evil, and He will take it away from you…….the Kingdom of God, is too great to not share…..that’s why sometimes you see Christians sharing like crazy and they get so excited, because they know that some day, some day, they will be there……don’t judge a “religion/belief” by it’s followers, you gotta read into it yourself, and decide….

You Quoted:
[Now i do understand that you can not box god up and explain him on paper. I think that those who know him best would describe him as an experience more than anything, but i still just dont understand. I dont know if this post is acatully going anywhere, but i just really needed to get this off my mind. If anyone has any comments or suggestions or anything at all please post. It would be greatfully appreciated.]

You wanna know how AWESOME God is? Just look around you…all the nature beauty is His creation…..from the blue sky to that small lily in the valley….WOW….now if you KNEW…that all this is created by God, wouldn’t you jump up for Joy?.....WOW….Awesome…. Great Questions!!!! They lead to the Truth, you know…. …I hope that I answered them….please pm me or answer back….Whatever you do,…never stop searching for the answer……the Truth….pray to God that the Truth will be revealed to you…………