Seeing the Kingdom VS Entering the Kingdom

[Carl Emerson]

So one minute you say we cant enter, then you say we can - which is it?

I remind you of what you said...

"Nope. You can SEE the Kingdom and never ENTER it.
As is the whole christian world so far "living after the flesh" unto death..."

 

[timothyu]

We must through many tribulations enter the kingdom of God.

It is no easy feat to abandon what the world has taught us to be since birth and abandon self interest for interest in others.

Luke 16: 15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. 16 The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

 

[Infallible Curator]

So one minute you say we cant enter, then you say we can - which is it?

It's a process of Entering into Life - The Kingdom of Heaven.
No one has yet entered into Life, people are still dying.

 

[Carl Emerson]

It's a process of Entering into Life - The Kingdom of Heaven.
No one has yet entered into Life, people are still dying.

Are you suggesting that true believers will not die ??

Peter, Paul and Co. not true believers? All died - all will be with us in heaven.

 

[timothyu]

Like swearing allegiance to a world not yet arrived, being ambassadors for a future government

 

[Infallible Curator]

Are you suggesting that true believers will not die ??
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Peter, Paul and Co. not true believers? All died - all will be with us in heaven.

All depends on where you think Heaven is.
Jesus said it's here and now - Matthew 4:17
He walked in Heaven, on Earth - John 3:13

The apostles simply did not enter in all the way - they played church instead.

 

[Infallible Curator]

Like swearing allegiance to a world not yet arrived, being ambassadors for a future government

The Kingdom of HEAVEN is at Hand - Matthew 4:17

 

[timothyu]

The Kingdom of HEAVEN is at Hand - Matthew 4:17

Yes, as the Lord's Prayer says, the governance of God will be here once again as it has always been in Heaven.

 

[Carl Emerson]

All depends on where you think Heaven is.
Jesus said it's here and now - Matthew 4:17
He walked in Heaven, on Earth - John 3:13

The apostles simply did not enter in all the way - they played church instead.

Good theory but that is not what the bible is saying.

True believers do not escape death - Stephen was stoned and died - but we will be with him in heaven.

 

[zoidar]

Based on a close reading of John 3:3-5 there is a difference:

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

It's the same thing, the one born again sees the kingdom and will also enter it.

 

[Carl Emerson]

It's the same thing, the one born again sees the kingdom and will also enter it.

Agree - how can you see it if you haven't entered it?

 

[timothyu]

Agree - how can you see it if you haven't entered it?

Two things..
Jesus taught that the Kingdom was contrary to the world man has made in our own image. To understand the difference between the ways of the two was to see the Kingdom for what it was by comparison.

We can understand the governance of God compared to the governance of man, while still living under the governance of man. Therefore we can see the Kingdom of God, God as our King in the same way the oppressed saw Him while under the oppression of the governance of man.

 

[Clare73]

Since the Gospel means 'Good News' -
What is Good News to a dying mortal?
You don't need to be mortal anymore.

Good news is that your enemy, the most powerful being in the universe, offers pardon in place of wrath and punishment.

 

[timothyu]

Good news is that your enemy, the most powerful being in the universe, offers pardon in place of wrath and punishment.

Offers being the key word

 

[Magisteria]

Agree - how can you see it if you haven't entered it?

Simple.
Ever see a house and not enter it?
Almost mind-numbing.

 

[Magisteria]

It's the same thing, the one born again sees the kingdom and will also enter it.

Amazing - that is not what Jesus said in John 3:3-5.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Simple.
Ever see a house and not enter it?
Almost mind-numbing.

That analogy doesn't work in this case...

The implication is seeing from the inside not the outside.

 

[Magisteria]

That analogy doesn't work in this case...

The implication is seeing from the inside not the outside.

With your reasoning you'd be inside first seeing, so you'd be Exiting, not Entering.
My analogy is exact.
You can't Enter the house until you first See it.
Which is why Jesus Christ placed Seeing and Entering in that order.
Once you move beyond the simplicity of it, it gets stupid.

 

[Noxot]

one difference is between that of understanding and of will.

 

[Carl Emerson]

With your reasoning you'd be inside first seeing, so you'd be Exiting, not Entering.

Not so... - once you enter you don't leave.