See, It's Not Just Homosexuas...

[Bianca87]

It's a sad day when a "christian" forum has debates about homosexuality and premarital sex.

i think it's healty, disagreements among groups are a good thing.
the " there are kind of a rule violation

 

[Bianca87]

then every single real Christian out there

very very very arrogant statement. very

 

[davedjy]

Are you ever going to stop with your wacky liberal websites? I hope you know they are not helping your cause.

Your meaningless commentary does not help YOUR side out.

I have asked you repeatedly, please disprove this:

FACT: There is not one condemnation of homosexuality as one’s innate sexual constitution in the Scriptures. In fact, any reputable Bible scholar will tell you that when the original manuscripts were written in the languages of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, in none of these languages did the word "homosexual," or any viable translation of the word, exist.

http://www.opendoorcenter.com/myths_&_facts.htm

 

[united4Peace]

The Holy Spirit raises up prophets among some of us:

I read this book called The Holy Spirit: The Key to supernatural living by Bill Blight
Page 259
"Prophesy (1 Corinthians 12:10, 28)

The gift of prophesy is one of the most misunderstood of all the gifts. Many people consider it an ability to foretell the future. The word literally means to "preach" or to proclaim the Word of God to others. A prophet, biblically, called a nation to repentenance and to return to God. Like Dr. Williams Evans, most believers who have this gift find that it takes much time, hard work and reliance on the power and control of the Holy Spirit to develop this gift.
Since so much of Scripture contains God's revelation of His future plans, the preaching of the Word from time to time includes dealing with things to come. Since the canon of Scripture is now "closed," or complete, such preaching on future things, if it is the result of being truly gifted, only confirms what the Bible says and does not add to Scriptures."

Here is a modern prophet
http://www3.telus.net/st_simons/edhird.html

And this is his prophetic book:
http://www3.telus.net/st_simons/nsnews030.html

Im not about to order his book...
However...are you suggesting he knows the future?? That he is a prophet of God's?
What about other Minister's?? Why are they called but they are given a different message in that case?

 

[RMDY]

Your meaningless commentary does not help YOUR side out.

I have asked you repeatedly, please disprove this:

FACT: There is not one condemnation of homosexuality as one’s innate sexual constitution in the Scriptures. In fact, any reputable Bible scholar will tell you that when the original manuscripts were written in the languages of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, in none of these languages did the word "homosexual," or any viable translation of the word, exist.

http://www.opendoorcenter.com/myths_&_facts.htm

Just because the word prefix "homo" and the other word that goes with it "sexual" did not exist in those languages doesn't mean that there is nothing that speaks of it within the Scriptures.

I can give you an example:

Leviticus18 and 20.

There are a lot of unlawful things in the Jewish law, but they all applied to everyday life outside the temples too, even if there were no rituals going on. For example, it is unlawful in Jewish custom to work on the Sabbath, whether in worship to God or whether your not performing rituals.

Open your eyes Dave.

 

[davedjy]

Just because the word prefix "homo" and the other word that goes with it "sexual" did not exist in those languages doesn't mean that there is nothing that speaks of it within the Scriptures.

I can give you an example:

Leviticus18 and 20.

There are a lot of unlawful things in the Jewish law, but they all applied to everyday life outside the temples too, even if there were no rituals going on. For example, it is unlawful in Jewish custom to work on the Sabbath, whether in worship to God or whether your not performing rituals.

Open your eyes Dave.

My idea of what the bible calls "sexually immoral" is different from what you believe.

Abomination = ritual/ceremonial violation. Men were dressing as women in the Caananite (sp?) idolatry relgion. You need the context of the verses you bring here.


The old law has been abolished anyways, read Romans 7:6.

 

[RMDY]

Im not about to order his book...
However...are you suggesting he knows the future?? That he is a prophet of God's?
What about other Minister's?? Why are they called but they are given a different message in that case?

No, I am not suggesting he knows the future. If you read what I posted about the gift of prophesy, all the information you need is right there.

The Holy Spirit is alive and well! He gives gifts to people and people who use them aligned to the will of God can go amazing things! Not everyone seeks it or knows they do. Only a week ago I discovered and came to realize that I haven't been seeking it but my own ways and knowledge and Satan tried to confuse me over this for the two days.


Here are some questions for you:

Do you feel out of touch with God?
Are you afraid of what the future might bring?
Are you plagued by the wrong desires?
Are you tired of stale, meaningless Christianity?

 

[RMDY]

Abomination = ritual/ceremonial violation. Men were dressing as women in the Caananite (sp?) idolatry relgion. You need the context of the verses you bring here.


The old law has been abolished anyways, read Romans 7:6.

In Leviticus, God doesn't limit those laws to ritual and ceremonies.

Jesus didn't abolish the law and I strongly desire for you to seek the Holy Spirit and not your own.

 

[davedjy]

Jesus didn't abolish the law and I strongly desire for you to seek the Holy Spirit and not your own.

5. Temple Prostitution in Canaan (Leviticus 18:22)
Temple prostitution played also a vital role in the Canaanite religion of worshipping Molech in the OT. In the Canaanite religion, the fertility of the land depended upon Molech having sex with the love goddess Astoroth. The Canaanites, imitated this through prostitution in their worship rituals. The prostitute would play the part of Astoroth, while the customer/worshipper played the part of Molech.

However, the prostitutes playing Astoroth's role were not females, but instead were males... they would dress up as women, wearing elaborate Goddess vestments and Goddess masks on their faces. The customers/ worshippers were also males- Those males would lie with a male as if a female.

It seems almost too simple. For those who wish for further proof that Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 forbid lying with one of Molech's temple prostitutes I have put together the following arguments:

A. CONEXT: Leviticus 18:2-5 says that practices following, including obviously the "homosexual" acts in 18:22, were part of "the doings... of Canaan". Also see 19:26-29.

So the "homosexual" acts in Leviticus 18:22. 20:13 were part of Canaanite rituals. Funny thing is, the only form of homosexuality used by the Canaanites in their rituals was that of transvestitic temple prostitution.

The end of chapter 20 says that those practices were labeled as "abomination" because they were the idolatrous practices of the Canaanites.

B. THE DEATH PENALTY AND DEUTERONOMY: If you make a list of crimes in Leviticus in which the punishment is death, you will notice that all the death penalty crimes are repeated once again in the Old Testament, especially in Deuteronomy.

But homosexuality is not repeated there (nor anywhere else in the Old Testament), even though ALL of the other death penalty crimes are. However, Deuteronomy does mention male temple prostitution, and calls it toevah.

Here is the list:

Leviticus 20:3-5: Child sacrifice. This is repeated in 2Kings 16:3 and Deuteronomy 12:31.

Leviticus 20:6: Mediums and wizards. This is included in Deuteronomy's 'no other gods', 5:7 et al.

Leviticus 20:9: Cursing one's parents. This is repeated in Deuteronomy 27:16.

Leviticus 20:10: Adultery. Repeated in Deuteronomy 5:18, 22:22.

Leviticus 20:11: Incest with father's wife. Repeated in Deuteronomy 20:20.

Leviticus 20:12 Incest with child's spouse. Repeated in Deuteronomy 20:23.

Leviticus 20:13: Allegedly homosexuality in general. Not repeated anywhere else in the Old Testament.

Leviticus 20:14: Incest: both daughter and mother. Repeated in Deuteronomy 20:23.

Leviticus 20:15: Man committing bestiality. Repeated in Deuteronomy 20:21.

Leviticus 20:16: woman commiting bestiality. Repeated in Deuteronomy 20:21

"Seven out of nine are repeated precisely in Deuteronomy - down to the details of which degree of consanguinity is involved in acts of incest. 20:12 (incest with a daughter-in-law) is not repeated precisely, but the same degree of consanguinity is forbidden in Deut. 20:23. Necromancy is not specifically forbidden again in Deuteronomy, but it is attested in a number of places outside of Leviticus 18/20, notably in I Samuel 14:32-35, which refers to the death penalty associated with the practice." -- Royce Beuhler

http://home.wanadoo.nl/inspiritus/The%20Mystery.htm

 

[davedjy]

In Leviticus, God doesn't limit those laws to ritual and ceremonies.

Jesus didn't abolish the law and I strongly desire for you to seek the Holy Spirit and not your own.

I suggest some need to stop hiding behind FALSE doctrine, and accept their own true sexuality.

 

[DMagoh]

very very very arrogant statement. very

You are judging the person that wrote that. I thought the "Judge not" crowd was against judging people's behavior.

 

[DMagoh]

...any reputable Bible scholar will tell you that when the original manuscripts were written in the languages of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, in none of these languages did the word "homosexual," or any viable translation of the word, exist.

As I've said before, I dont see the word "homosexual" even used in this verse...

In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Romans 1:27

All I see is...

• They abandoned natural relations with women;
• They are inflamed in lust for other men;
• They have commited indecent acts with other men; and
• They will receive the due penalty for their perversion.

How do you mistranslate that?

 

[DMagoh]

the " there are kind of a rule violation

How so? I didnt refer to anyone or name anyone.

 

[united4Peace]

No, I am not suggesting he knows the future. If you read what I posted about the gift of prophesy, all the information you need is right there.

The Holy Spirit is alive and well! He gives gifts to people and people who use them aligned to the will of God can go amazing things! Not everyone seeks it or knows they do. Only a week ago I discovered and came to realize that I haven't been seeking it but my own ways and knowledge and Satan tried to confuse me over this for the two days.


Here are some questions for you:

Do you feel out of touch with God?
Are you afraid of what the future might bring?
Are you plagued by the wrong desires?
Are you tired of stale, meaningless Christianity?

No...I feel close, right now Im on a journey with God(have been my entire life infact)
No Im not afraid of the future...Im excited of what it may bring

No Im not plaqued by the wrong desires whatever that is meaning...

stale Christianity??
I have the Church I attend...I go and participate and we are trying new things within the Church...
We're a family...
(mind you I dont go all the time as in the summer my children are involved in other activities but come fall we are right back in their...Sunday School etc)

Peace to you

 

[Bianca87]

You are judging the person that wrote that. I thought the "Judge not" crowd was against judging people's behavior.

it argumentatively works, mate, but there is a difference between telling " you're evil and will go to hell because you don't act as i think it's right" and " to call me false christian because i don't agree with you it's an arrogant thing"
let's look at the differences

-calling a statement (not a person) arrogant is a definition, not a moral statement. it's using a word according to it's definition:
arrogant:adj.
1. Having or displaying a sense of overbearing self-worth or self-importance. 2. Marked by or arising from a feeling or assumption of one's superiority toward others if the sentence was written in red, i would have said it was red. no difference.

-i was responding to someone who had priorly offended me and others, questioning our faith (wich is by the way a rule violation), thus had hurt me. some people here are judging (morally) individuals who didn't hurt them in any way simply for having a lifestyle that doesn't mach their fundamentalistic opinions. difference

 

[ReformedChapin]

Your meaningless commentary does not help YOUR side out.

I have asked you repeatedly, please disprove this:

FACT: There is not one condemnation of homosexuality as one’s innate sexual constitution in the Scriptures. In fact, any reputable Bible scholar will tell you that when the original manuscripts were written in the languages of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, in none of these languages did the word "homosexual," or any viable translation of the word, exist.

http://www.opendoorcenter.com/myths_&_facts.htm

Again, how is that a fact? Please provide evidence.

Talk about meaningless.

 

[ReformedChapin]

As I've said before, I dont see the word "homosexual" even used in this verse...

In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. Romans 1:27

All I see is...

• They abandoned natural relations with women;
• They are inflamed in lust for other men;
• They have commited indecent acts with other men; and
• They will receive the due penalty for their perversion.

How do you mistranslate that?

I don't understand why you even bother debating the bible someone who thinks the bible is wrong.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

Marriage is nothing but a paper, a few sweet words and two rings. People get married for money, for heirs, for culture, and for no reason at all. Likewise, people end marriages for the same reason. The word marriage means nothing.

Sex outside of love is the only thing that is wrong. Marriage is just the paper that makes that love official. If the love doesn't exist, it means nothing. By saying "no sex outside of marriage" you're basically saying that love doesn't need to be present. I think that what matters is if the love truly exists, if it can't be questioned by anything. My love is Christian and constantly tells me that he'd give up heaven for me (not that I would ever let him). If a love is that strong, then marriage doesn't necessarily mean anything. We're still waiting, but that's because we're not physically ready more than anything.

 

[united4Peace]

Sex outside of love is the only thing that is wrong.

Well said!!
(wish I had been that smart at your age )

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]Your meaningless commentary does not help YOUR side out.

I have asked you repeatedly, please disprove this:

FACT: There is not one condemnation of homosexuality as one’s innate sexual constitution in the Scriptures. In fact, any reputable Bible scholar will tell you that when the original manuscripts were written in the languages of Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, in none of these languages did the word "homosexual," or any viable translation of the word, exist.[/SIZE]

I have disproved it, repeatedly. Endless reposting of links to homosexual website with NO, NONE, ZERO credible, verifiable, historical, or lexical, grammatical evidence, only the unsupported opinions of some anonymous dood, is NOT proof of anything but frantic desperation.

Irrefutable proof from the time Moses delivered the law, to the Israelites, ca. 1200 BC, until the present, Jewish scholars interpreted the O.T. scriptures as condemning ALL same gender sex acts; by ALL persons, male and female; at ALL times, in ALL places, and under ALL circumstances, NO exceptions. The early church fathers also interpreted the scriptures as condemning ALL homosexual acts, with
NO exceptions.

The Talmud and the ECF did NOT even mention, and did NOT limit the condemnation of homosexual acts to, “homosexual rape,” “temple prostitution,” pagan temples and/or pagan religious activities!

Recent posts: Evidence from Talmud, and other ancient Jewish writings, Link

Evidence from early church fathers, Link

This evidence spans approximately 1500 years of church history, from 1200 BC through 300 AD.