Secularists lay siege to Europe, Italian bishop says

Ryal Kane

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Now it's secularists and nihilists who are going to destroy Europe? I thought it was Muslims who were going to destroy Europe. :scratch:

According to Jack Chick, Communism, Satanism, Dungeons and Dragons and Islam are all part of a conspiracy by the Catholic Church.
 
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Michelina

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Voegelin said:
Ratzinger, in contrast, hopes exceptional Christian individuals will emerge who will pull the EU out of its death spiral.
One can hope. Actually, his speech at his old University in Regensburg was, among other things, an attempt to get European intellectuals to give religious input a fair hearing. Unfortunately, that's not how it was received.
 
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D'Ann

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Apart from the obscene misrepresentation that results from treating secularists and nihilists as the same, I find the charge of, "allowing the powerful to take advantage of the defenseless," a particularly interesting one when coming from a European Catholic bishop.

I feel little sympathy. At the heart of this, in my opinion, is not a particular understanding of or care about the issues the church's leaders regularly talk about. That much is obvious from the lack of understanding people like this Bishop exhibit every time they talk about the issues.

Firstly, His Eminence will have difficulty finding people who are particularly enthusiastic about abortion itself. He will, however, find millions who reservedly accept the fact that in an imperfect world there are occasions on which abortion is the lesser of two evils. He will find people who say that it is not for ageing, wealthy celibates separate in every way from the realities of most people's lives to tell half the world's population in one fell swoop that, whether or not their very life depends on it, they cannot have an abortion. That is the powerful taking advantage of the defenceless.

Euthanasia, despite what some Catholic leaders would have us believe, is not about eugenics and does not lead to such. It is not involuntary. As someone who believes euthanasia with several conditions should be legalised, I can tell you that anyone, no matter how desperate their situation, who was not of sound mind or didn't want assisted suicide, must be given the absolute best loving palliative care possible. However, with the consent of the patient and his/her doctors, voluntary euthanasia has nothing to do with the powerful taking advantage of the defenceless. It is about them giving the weak the choice to take control of their own life and, yes, death.

Stem cell research, if it involves the killing of embryos is, in my opinion, regretable. I think it is important we try to get this research done without the need to kill embryos. However, I think a consideration far more intelligent than the bishop's will show that the life of a human being that could be saved by this research is, if it is absolutely necessary, more important than that of a being that lacks the basic features of life.

Same-sex marriage is not about destroying marriage between a man and a woman. I find the charge absurd, especially coming from a man who has never been married, and never will be.

No, this isn't about the issues themselves. It is about power. The Church can no longer use fear and stupidity to get what it wants. Even a significant proportion, if not most, of the 1 billion that call themselves Catholic, are more than willing to ignore, overlook and expressly violate Catholic teaching.*

The people of the modern world are no longer going to accept top-down power-crazed hierarchical authority interfering in their private lives. The Church can no longer control even its own priests, who being out in the world instead of locked up behind closed doors in Rome, are the everyday heroes of Catholicism. They cannot sit and shout tired old dogmas that have nothing to do with real life, because, unlike most of the higher-ups, they actually know what life is like for the common people.

The hierarchy is going to have to adapt or die, and they're just whinging about it.

*not a reference to anyone on CF.

Oh Robbie... this post hurts so deeply my heart. You have truly fallen away. :hug:

I'm sorry for what you must of gone through to bring you to where you are now.

Regarding this thread... Michelina is right.

God Bless,

Debbie
 
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Voegelin

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One can hope. Actually, his speech at his old University in Regensburg was, among other things, an attempt to get European intellectuals to give religious input a fair hearing. Unfortunately, that's not how it was received.

I wonder. The media certainly mangled the message. But then we have the atheist and last remaining member of the Frankfort School, Jürgen Habermas, who sounds desparate for an alliance between secular reason and religion in order to defeat the scientism that is destroying Europe. Marcello Pera sees the need too. Others must as well. Europe has pretended things were fine before. Each time exceptional men and women arose who saved it.

Fr. John Zuhlsdorf has translated part of Bishop Betori's comments (which he thinks were extemporaneous):

If we want to defend the true face of man, we must rediscover the face of God. The face of God is love, not however a love which is weak and hides the truth, that which creates ambiguity under the veil of false tolerance, rather than one which is demanding, which does not avoid cutting to cure, which makes distinctions so as to build authentic bridges and looks not reduce everything to a false homogeneity, which reminds us of responsibility without indulging in a "go along to get along" attitude which fails in the end.

Can a person of good will deny the truth of that?
 
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Michelina

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I wonder. The media certainly mangled the message. But then we have the atheist and last remaining member of the Frankfort School, Jürgen Habermas, who sounds desparate for an alliance between secular reason and religion in order to defeat the scientism that is destroying Europe. Marcello Pera sees the need too. Others must as well. Europe has pretended things were fine before. Each time exceptional men and women arose who saved it.
No doubt that there are some who will arise. The question is: will they be heard over the noise of the mass media? I pray that they will. But unless Europe is re-evangelized, I doubt that they will. My cousin will be landing at DaVinci tomorrow morning for a 3 week stay near the University I attended in Rome. I await his return with news about the "climate" in Europe.

Fr. John Zuhlsdorf has translated part of Bishop Betori's comments (which he thinks were extemporaneous):

Bishop Betori said:
If we want to defend the true face of man, we must rediscover the face of God. The face of God is love, not however a love which is weak and hides the truth, that which creates ambiguity under the veil of false tolerance, rather than one which is demanding, which does not avoid cutting to cure, which makes distinctions so as to build authentic bridges and looks not reduce everything to a false homogeneity, which reminds us of responsibility without indulging in a "go along to get along" attitude which fails in the end.

Can a person of good will deny the truth of that?
I don't think a person of good will would deny it, but how many will hear it when so many are opposed to it being given a hearing?
 
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stelow

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No, this isn't about the issues themselves. It is about power. The Church can no longer use fear and stupidity to get what it wants. Even a significant proportion, if not most, of the 1 billion that call themselves Catholic, are more than willing to ignore, overlook and expressly violate Catholic teaching.*

The people of the modern world are no longer going to accept top-down power-crazed hierarchical authority interfering in their private lives. The Church can no longer control even its own priests, who being out in the world instead of locked up behind closed doors in Rome, are the everyday heroes of Catholicism. They cannot sit and shout tired old dogmas that have nothing to do with real life, because, unlike most of the higher-ups, they actually know what life is like for the common people.

The hierarchy is going to have to adapt or die, and they're just whinging about it.

*not a reference to anyone on CF.

It will continue and their power has lined up with some very powerful players that will make sure they will get their way. It is all part of prophesy in the book of Revelation.
 
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stelow

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Oh Robbie... this post hurts so deeply my heart. You have truly fallen away. :hug:

I'm sorry for what you must of gone through to bring you to where you are now.

Regarding this thread... Michelina is right.

God Bless,

Debbie

Are you able to know who has fallen away by one post, I don't think you can. Why then would you say such a thing unless maybe you just did not like what he said. So in your opinion Michelina is right, like you stated that's your opinion. I think Robbie sounds frustrated that is quite different than saying someone has fallen away. I do believe there are Catholic christians but how could someone be a part of a religion where their leader calls them self the Holy Father.
 
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stelow

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Matthew 23

1Then spoke Jesus to the multitude and to His disciples,
2saying, "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do ye not according to their works; for they say, and do not.
4For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6and love the uppermost places at feasts and the chief seats in the synagogues,
7and greetings in the markets, and to be called by men, `Rabbi, Rabbi.'
8But be not ye called `Rabbi,' for One is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9"And call no man your father upon earth, for One is your Father, who is in Heaven.
10Neither be ye called masters, for One is your Master, even Christ.
 
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Museveni

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If we want to defend the true face of man, we must rediscover the face of God. The face of God is love, not however a love which is weak and hides the truth, that which creates ambiguity under the veil of false tolerance, rather than one which is demanding, which does not avoid cutting to cure, which makes distinctions so as to build authentic bridges and looks not reduce everything to a false homogeneity, which reminds us of responsibility without indulging in a "go along to get along" attitude which fails in the end.


reaks of "Our way is the only true way! Why? Becuase we say so!" with a splash of "Death to all who oppose us" reasoning to it.
 
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Robbie_James_Francis

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Oh Robbie... this post hurts so deeply my heart. You have truly fallen away. :hug:

I'm sorry for what you must of gone through to bring you to where you are now.

Regarding this thread... Michelina is right.

God Bless,

Debbie

I'm sorry to hear that you're hurt by my post. And thank you for the care and concern.

If it's any consolation I can assure you that most of my journey thus far as a Catholic and subsequntly has been extremely positive and constructive...and I am happier now than I ever have been.

:hug:

Peace
 
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D'Ann

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I'm sorry to hear that you're hurt by my post. And thank you for the care and concern.

If it's any consolation I can assure you that most of my journey thus far as a Catholic and subsequntly has been extremely positive and constructive...and I am happier now than I ever have been.

:hug:

Peace

:hug: okay.

Peace
 
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KarateCowboy

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According to Jack Chick, Communism, Satanism, Dungeons and Dragons and Islam are all part of a conspiracy by the Catholic Church.
Not to nit-pick but Jack Chick thinks the Catholic Church is evil.
 
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Voegelin

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Everyone's getting into the act. Bob Lewis writes for the Associated Press today:

LYNCHBURG, Va. (AP) - Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich told Liberty University's graduating class Saturday to honor the spirit of school founder Jerry Falwell by confronting "the growing culture of radical secularism" with Christian ideals . . .

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8P7JSU81&show_article=1
 
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Museveni

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Have yet to see any of these "Radical Secularists" they are talking about.. Oh well. The US have had it's brightest moments when it told the religeous fundamentalists to go fudge themselfs.

Luckily for you the Army and Marines are still around to beat down any attempted fundie takeover and destruction of US principals.

If not it will be interresting to see who takes over as the next "Super Power" after the Religeous Right sends the US down the crapper.
 
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Brother Simon

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Matthew 23

1Then spoke Jesus to the multitude and to His disciples,
2saying, "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do ye not according to their works; for they say, and do not.
4For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
5But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
6and love the uppermost places at feasts and the chief seats in the synagogues,
7and greetings in the markets, and to be called by men, `Rabbi, Rabbi.'
8But be not ye called `Rabbi,' for One is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.
9"And call no man your father upon earth, for One is your Father, who is in Heaven.
10Neither be ye called masters, for One is your Master, even Christ.


And I guess this is your argument for not calling priests and the pope, Father? Welp, I guess everyone of us is guilty then for calling our dads, dad. :doh: Catholicism must be satanism because we have a respectful title for our clergy.

With love,
Simon
 
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KarateCowboy

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Have yet to see any of these "Radical Secularists" they are talking about.. Oh well. The US have had it's brightest moments when it told the religeous fundamentalists to go fudge themselfs.

Luckily for you the Army and Marines are still around to beat down any attempted fundie takeover and destruction of US principals.

If not it will be interresting to see who takes over as the next "Super Power" after the Religeous Right sends the US down the crapper.
Are secular fundamentalists any better? We have them to thank for all the Soviet and Asian Communist massacres.
 
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JGG

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Are secular fundamentalists any better? We have them to thank for all the Soviet and Asian Communist massacres.

Or, perhaps communists are to blame, whose to say?

This sounds very much like "Nazi Psychiatrists killed Jews, therefore Psychiatrists are evil!"
 
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Voegelin

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Armed wing of the Church?

I've never experienced any coercion from any Christian denomination. Neither did my parents. Or their parents. Or their parent's parents. I've never seen an "armed wing of the Church".

Hundreds of millions have seen an armed wing of radical secularism however.

Can't get much more secular than atheists. In the 20th century atheists had the H-bomb (and still have it in communist China) and enslaved over half the population of the world. Pope John Paul II and other Christian leaders who fought communist atheist regimes were unarmed. And they won. Tells you something, doesn' it?
 
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