Secular vs sacred laws

[KCDAD]

I see often the argument that abortion, homosexuality, capital punishment, alcohol or whatever should be illegal because of The Bible or Jesus' teaching or some other religious reason. I am here to say that we do not live in a theocracy, we don't want to live in a theocracy and civil laws are necessarily more "liberal" than secular ones. (At last in a multi-cultural society like ours)
Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion. Freedom of speech also means freedom from being preached at.Freedom of assembly also means freedom not to go along with the crowd.

So IMO it is perfectly consistent to be in favor of legal abortion, capital punishment, equal rights for all citizens, and decriminalization of drugs AND still consider oneself a CONSERVATIVE Christian. Despite the hypocrisy of Sojourner Magazine... one should not mix their religion with their politics.... (HEY! You got chocolate in my peanut butter!)

 

[WildBill]

I think abortion should be illegal because it's murder, regardless of what any religious teachings say about it. I don't think homosexuality should be outlawed. I just oppose the government using the school system to to promote it and tell America's children that it's okay. The schools are supposed to teach reading, writing, and math. Not convert politically. To be honest, I feel that public education is socalist and should be unconstitutional. About alcohol, I don't think it should be illegal. But it has done lots of damage to society. It's amazing how the demopublicans have attacked smoking so hard but don't crack down on alcohol use. Alcohol has done lots more damage than smoking. Domestic violence, divorces, abuse, automobile deaths, homelessness, people losing their jobs 'cause the'ye addicted and stay drunk all the time. When was the last time you heard of someone wrecking their car or beating their wife because they had too many cigarettes?? I guess the wackos in washington dc(I didn't capitalize it deliberately) are non smokers and like to drink.

 

[spblat]

Great post KCDAD. I have read claims that the real issue with using religion to drive law is sin. For example:

Homosexual relationships and consensual sodomy harm no one. But these acts are sinful, so they must be outlawed.

Recreational marijuana use harms no one except (maybe, and I doubt this) the adult using it. But somewhere in the Bible you can probably show that it's sinful, so it must be outlawed. (You can argue that purchasing marijuana encourages violence. But this is a result of prohibition, not the properties of the drug itself.)

...and so on. KCDAD, is this consistent with your position, or do you see it differently?

 

[jayem]

Freedom of religion also means freedom from religion. Freedom of speech also means freedom from being preached at.Freedom of assembly also means freedom not to go along with the crowd.

So IMO it is perfectly consistent to be in favor of legal abortion, capital punishment, equal rights for all citizens, and decriminalization of drugs AND still consider oneself a CONSERVATIVE Christian.

Absolutely correct.

Libertarianism is not inconsistent with conservatism. In fact, I would define true conservatism as being libertarian, at least as regards it's philosophic foundation.

The purest expression of Christianity, as we are told time and time again, is about having a personal relationship with Jesus as one's savior and as a model for one's life. It says little or nothing about any particular form of government. The problem is that organized Christianity, in common with most organized religions, becomes doctrinaire and authoritarian. So when organized religion acquires political power, it tends to favor a state that can be adversarial towards freethinking, non-conformity, and the libertarian viewpoint.

 

[KCDAD]

Great post KCDAD. I have read claims that the real issue with using religion to drive law is sin. For example:

Homosexual relationships and consensual sodomy harm no one. But these acts are sinful, so they must be outlawed.

Recreational marijuana use harms no one except (maybe, and I doubt this) the adult using it. But somewhere in the Bible you can probably show that it's sinful, so it must be outlawed. (You can argue that purchasing marijuana encourages violence. But this is a result of prohibition, not the properties of the drug itself.)

...and so on. KCDAD, is this consistent with your position, or do you see it differently?

Whether it harms someone who uses it or not is not the issue, I don't think. We allow alcohol and tobacco, we allow professional wrestling and extreme fighting, we allow pornography and prostitution...

Sometimes liberty means allowing people to ruin themselves any way they wish according to Freud and Menninger's ideas of the human impulse to suicide.

 

[Mailman Dan]

Freedom of speech also means freedom from being preached at

Fine line. If this was true, then your comments would not be allowed, being that its your method of preaching. (Off to the stockade with you!)


Freedom for me is allowing you to tell me what your faith is anywhere outside my home. I often enjoying speaking to strangers about their faith, and shaing the gospel with them. In the process i've made far more friends than enemies, and learned alot in the process. If someone doesn't want to listen to me, they have freedom to walk away...

So IMO it is perfectly consistent to be in favor of legal abortion, capital punishment, equal rights for all citizens, and decriminalization of drugs AND still consider oneself a CONSERVATIVE Christian.

Its really odd, but I don't know any conservative Christians that don't believe in equal rights for all, so why is that in there? I do however, know someone who died due to OD, and believe that God is the creator of life, and its not our job to destroy it. I won't be bending on those issues anytime soon.

Whether it harms someone who uses it or not is not the issue, I don't think. We allow alcohol and tobacco, we allow professional wrestling and extreme fighting, we allow pornography and prostitution...

I think....

How many people do you know that died because of a drunk? Plenty I suspect. Sometimes we pay for other peoples sin, but we should still be allowed to preach out against it.

Dan~~~>knows we do not always "allow" things that are good for us

 

[Caylin]

Its really odd, but I don't know any conservative Christians that don't believe in equal rights for all, so why is that in there? I do however, know someone who died due to OD, and believe that God is the creator of life, and its not our job to destroy it. I won't be bending on those issues anytime soon.

It is in there because many conservative Christians don't think gay people deserve equal rights, and there is a vocal minority that want to remove women's rights as well.

 

[Mailman Dan]

It is in there because many conservative Christians don't think gay people deserve equal rights, and there is a vocal minority that want to remove women's rights as well.

I don't have any Christian friends in my circle that think this way. Once in awhile i'll hear of some rare far wacky sect guy, but its very, very seldom. According to most Fundies, all men and woemn are equal before God, and Christians are just brothers and sisters in Christ.

Dan~~~>doesn't think most conservatives think differently