Secular Morality

[eddieJ]

Without God as a guide, secular morality relies on experts to proceed. Man, not God, becomes the basis for the rule of law. And whatever knowledge men may have gained in the past 2000 years, they have not shed the corruption, greed and dishonesty.

Internet forums, like this one, are infiltrated by those who wish to spread their beliefs about their version of morality. To cause confusion among Christians and to "change minds."

Do you not know that Jesus Christ died for everyone so that sins would be forgiven? That He said, "No one comes to the father but through me."? If what I just wrote isn't true then it doesn't matter. But what I just wrote IS the truth and nothing else matters.


God bless you,
Eddie

 

[wanderingone]

Without God as a guide, secular morality relies on experts to proceed. Man, not God, becomes the basis for the rule of law. And whatever knowledge men may have gained in the past 2000 years, they have not shed the corruption, greed and dishonesty.

Internet forums, like this one, are infiltrated by those who wish to spread their beliefs about their version of morality. To cause confusion among Christians and to "change minds."

Do you not know that Jesus Christ died for everyone so that sins would be forgiven? That He said, "No one comes to the father but through me."? If what I just wrote isn't true then it doesn't matter. But what I just wrote IS the truth and nothing else matters.


God bless you,
Eddie

These forums are not infiltrated, they are open to persons who are not Christians. If your faith is so weak that reading the thoughts of someone who thinks differently will be swayed than it might be best for you to avoid the areas of CF that are open for posting by people who are not Christian.

If anyone seeks to "confuse" Christians by getting them to cease from their belief it's really no different than Christians attempting to get non believers to believe. We may feel an obligation to share the good news but I imagine from the view of those who don't believe it's hard to get excited about hearing "the good news" again and again and again along with accusations of trying to convert the faithful.

 

[OdwinOddball]

These forums are not infiltrated, they are open to persons who are not Christians. If your faith is so weak that reading the thoughts of someone who thinks differently will be swayed than it might be best for you to avoid the areas of CF that are open for posting by people who are not Christian.

If anyone seeks to "confuse" Christians by getting them to cease from their belief it's really no different than Christians attempting to get non believers to believe. We may feel an obligation to share the good news but I imagine from the view of those who don't believe it's hard to get excited about hearing "the good news" again and again and again along with accusations of trying to convert the faithful.

Aye, indeed you summarize it quite well. The overall problem is that the one thing that could actually convert me to a religion is the one thing that no religion has ever been able to produce.

Testable, empirical evidence that the deity in question even exists, much less that he/she/it actually said anything that is written by humans in whatever book said religion claims as holy.


"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" as Carl Sagan was fond of saying, and the claim of a deity is the most extraordinary claim of all.

As to the titled topic of the OP, Secular morality comes form the same place as religious morality, the society we live in, the people who raised us, and the individual judgments we all make every day as to what is right or wrong. Without the evidence for the existence of your deity, you cannot demonstrate that this is a false statement.

 

[Mickey1953]

I hope it is okay to post this.... there is so much to see and I am still new to the forum. I don't understand alot about it...

I am sharing just a portion of the Preamble...
And it gives us a chance to witness.... as you do eddieJ

0. PREAMBLE

By becoming a member of this site, you agree to follow the rules of this site. These rules apply to all communications made on this site, including posts in the forums (including automatically generated sections of posts such as signatures, custom user titles, and avatars), private messages, and posts in the chatbox. These rules apply to all members of this site, including members of Christian Forums Staff. If you do not follow these rules, your posts may be edited or deleted, you may be alerted or warned by Staff and you may even be suspended or banned. If you are younger than 13, your parent or guardian must provide written consent for you to become a member of this site.

This site has the goal of facilitating ecumenical discussions between various Christian faiths as determined by adherence to the Nicene Creed and the Trinitarian nature of God. Those who do not adhere to the Creed are welcome as members and participants in discussions in much of this site, but are required to respect these beliefs, even if they do not share them.


1. LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD 1. LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD

Matthew 22:37

"Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment."

Nicene Creed

(Just a sample of the Preamble of this site)

I enjoy reading your posts eddieJ and welcome....
a sister In Christ
Mickey

 

[Skaloop]

And whatever knowledge men may have gained in the past 2000 years, they have not shed the corruption, greed and dishonesty.

You mean the corruption, greed, and dishonesty held by those 2000 years ago? The ones that wrote the Bible? Why trust them if they are so untrustworthy? As is every set of hands, through which the Bible has been translated, edited, and revised.

My morals are not defined by man, they are defined by not doing things that are demonstrably harmful to others. I don't need God to tell me that basic principle.

 

[TheBellman]

Without God as a guide, secular morality relies on experts to proceed. Man, not God, becomes the basis for the rule of law.

That is the case with or without god. Either way, man is the basis for the rule of law. Whether he derives his moral beliefs from what he believes god wants or somewhere else, it's still man who decides.

Internet forums, like this one, are infiltrated by those who wish to spread their beliefs about their version of morality. To cause confusion among Christians and to "change minds."

Paranoid much? Christians don't need our help to be confused; fi they did, there wouldn't be 35,000 different Christian denominations.

Do you not know that Jesus Christ died for everyone so that sins would be forgiven? That He said, "No one comes to the father but through me."?

"Know it"? I've heard it. I don't believe it.

If what I just wrote isn't true then it doesn't matter. But what I just wrote IS the truth and nothing else matters.

Hyperbole. Obviously even if it is the truth (not in evidence), other things still matter.

 

[eddieJ]

Then why do unbelievers bother coming here? I have no interest in cars so I don't go to any forums about them.




God bless,
Eddie

 

[Skaloop]

Then why do unbelievers bother coming here? I have no interest in cars so I don't go to any forums about them.

Who says we don't have any interest in Christianity, or theology in general? Christianity is undeniably a major part of western culture, and would behoove us to investigate it to better understand the society in which we live. Plus, when the vocal Christian majority in North America is putting its weight behind public policies concerning such things as science curricula and the legalities of marriage, it is also important to understand that standpoint in order to battle against it.

It's not that we have no interest in it, it's that we have no belief in it.

 

[TheBellman]

Then why do unbelievers bother coming here? I have no interest in cars so I don't go to any forums about them.

I have a great interest in Christianity. Why would I not have an interest in probably the single biggest influence in the history of my culture, particularly when that influence continues to hold, often to my detriment?

Or, to be more succint..."know thine enemy".

 

[TooCurious]

Without God as a guide, secular morality relies on experts to proceed.

"Experts"? No. I rely on information, logic, empathy, and my own mind. Relying on "experts" is more along the lines of having preachers and theologians interpret a holy book for you.

Man, not God, becomes the basis for the rule of law.

"Becomes"? That assumes there was a God to begin with, which is not in evidence. But yes, laws are manmade.

And whatever knowledge men may have gained in the past 2000 years, they have not shed the corruption, greed and dishonesty.

Nor have we shed empathy, generosity, and honor.

Every generation likes to claim that the following generation is the "worst ever" and "degenerate." It's been happening at least since Plato. Amusingly enough, human civilization has not completely disintegrated yet.

Internet forums, like this one, are infiltrated

"Infiltrated"? Okay, show of hands--who is here covertly, or under false pretenses?

by those who wish to spread their beliefs about their version of morality.

I think everyone here in the E&M forum is doing that, or is at least discussing their beliefs about their version of morality.

To cause confusion among Christians and to "change minds."

Maybe you're already confused, because that's not why I'm here. If a discussion with me causes someone to consider a different point of view, or even simply to think about why they hold their own position, then that's great, but I'm not here to "win converts." I'm here to discuss, and debate, like the forum header says. Maybe you're here for recruiting purposes, but that isn't universal.

Do you not know that Jesus Christ died for everyone so that sins would be forgiven?

I know that Christian doctrine holds that this is the case. I do NOT know that this doctrine is accurate.

That He said, "No one comes to the father but through me."? If what I just wrote isn't true then it doesn't matter. But what I just wrote IS the truth and nothing else matters.

That's an interesting viewpoint.

Then why do unbelievers bother coming here? I have no interest in cars so I don't go to any forums about them.

Because I DO have an interest in religious debate. I'd think that would be fairly obvious.

 

[JesusWalks78]

Without God as a guide, secular morality relies on experts to proceed. Man, not God, becomes the basis for the rule of law. And whatever knowledge men may have gained in the past 2000 years, they have not shed the corruption, greed and dishonesty.

Without Greed the passion and crucifiction would never had taken place. So it was around in the time of Jesus.

All Morality comes from man, some want to say they were divinely inspired, others are more realistic.

Internet forums, like this one, are infiltrated by those who wish to spread their beliefs about their version of morality. To cause confusion among Christians and to "change minds."

What I found being an ex christian is that there is no confusion untill you put your theistic worldview under a microscope.

The facade of christianity is beautiful, and many buy into it following like sheep but never thouroughly examine the logic behind a man in the sky controlling everything.

Do you not know that Jesus Christ died for everyone so that sins would be forgiven? That He said, "No one comes to the father but through me."? If what I just wrote isn't true then it doesn't matter. But what I just wrote IS the truth and nothing else matters.


God bless you,
Eddie

I personally do not believe that Jesus of the bible ever truly existed.

 

[billwald]

Local moral code is produced by the local social contract. All politics and morality is local.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Man, not God, becomes the basis for the rule of law.

Twas always thus.

 

[AlanGurvey]

Without God as a guide, secular morality relies on experts to proceed.
Wrong


Man, not God, becomes the basis for the rule of law.
More like man's reasoning..
And whatever knowledge men may have gained in the past 2000 years, they have not shed the corruption, greed and dishonesty.
Despite religion

Internet forums, like this one, are infiltrated by those who wish to spread their beliefs about their version of morality. To cause confusion among Christians and to "change minds."
The greatest morality is relative...
Do you not know that Jesus Christ died for everyone so that sins would be forgiven? That He said, "No one comes to the father but through me."? If what I just wrote isn't true then it doesn't matter. But what I just wrote IS the truth and nothing else matters.
And actions like this make my belief in HaShem greater


God bless you,
Eddie

....

 

[Eudaimonist]

Without God as a guide, secular morality relies on experts to proceed. Man, not God, becomes the basis for the rule of law.

Not necessarily. Reality, not man or God, can be the basis for the rule of law.

And whatever knowledge men may have gained in the past 2000 years, they have not shed the corruption, greed and dishonesty.

Not entirely, perhaps. Religion never accomplished this -- why should secular moralities live up to that standard?

Internet forums, like this one, are infiltrated by those who wish to spread their beliefs about their version of morality. To cause confusion among Christians and to "change minds."

Wow, "infiltrated". Like I'm James Bond. Actually, I like that image.

But that's not why I'm here. If I'm here, it is to show that nontheists can have a moral compass that leads them to be decent people, the kind you wouldn't mind having as neighbors (if their nontheism was not itself an issue). I'm not here to convert any Christians to my morality, however, or to "cause confusion". Any confusion you may experience is your own.

Do you not know that Jesus Christ died for everyone so that sins would be forgiven?

I've heard that fable.

That He said, "No one comes to the father but through me."?

I've heard that party line as well.

If what I just wrote isn't true then it doesn't matter. But what I just wrote IS the truth and nothing else matters.

If what you wrote isn't true, then life still matters.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[tocis]

...whatever knowledge men may have gained in the past 2000 years, they have not shed the corruption, greed and dishonesty.

Looking at today's christians, the christian religion is no exception to that...

Do you not know that Jesus Christ died for everyone so that sins would be forgiven?

Do you not know that jesus never really lived? There now, we've got two polar opposite claims. As you were first, I eagerly await the evidence backing up your claim.

That He said, "No one comes to the father but through me."? If what I just wrote isn't true then it doesn't matter. But what I just wrote IS the truth and nothing else matters.

Again, I'm looking forward to seeing your evidence.

 

[tocis]

Then why do unbelievers bother coming here? I have no interest in cars so I don't go to any forums about them.

As for me personally, I'm here to demonstrate that 1. heathens in general are not immoral monsters (like at least some christians think). and 2. Asatru is not dead

 

[Eudaimonist]

What you need, as a Christian, to imagine is that you were living in a nation in which Christians were thought to be something dark and strange.

Imagine you were living in ancient Rome and the typical Roman mistakenly thought you ate human flesh. Imagine now what actually happened -- Christians wrote Apologetics to open up a dialog with Romans and show that Christians actually had some decent morals after all, and were merely misunderstood.

That is the situation atheists and other non-Christians who live in America find themselves in today.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Mickey1953]

This is a quote from one of the posts:
"I personally do not believe that Jesus of the bible ever truly existed."

The Bible is a Historical Document , but if that is not an acceptable choice here, there is also....

Two well known Historians Jewish historian Flavius Josephus and Roman historian Carius Cornelius Tacitus accepted Jesus. Another: Pliny the Younger to Emperor Trajan.

Another source, Lucian of Samosata who was a second century Greek satirist.

This information is from http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/the-historical-jesus-faq.htm
[SIZE=-1]You can find more at: www.earlychristianwritings.com/josephus.html[/SIZE]

There are other historical records of Jesus.
Seutonius, another Roman historian and a friend of both Pliny and Tacitus / taken from: [SIZE=-1]
http://www.bibleresourcecenter.org/

Another source for reasearch is: http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/testimonium.html
[/SIZE]
To believe in Him as God, is a choice...
EddieJ said: "Do you not know that Jesus Christ died for everyone so that sins would be forgiven?" I believe as EddieJ.
I have chosen to.

On the site 'AllaboutJesusChrist" they also wrote:
In Mathew 16:15, Jesus put it this way, 'But who do you say that I am?' One of His disciples, Simon Peter, replied: 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.'
What is your reply?

Sincerely
Mickey

 

[DLaurier]

Sad,
That the fantasy of non christians supposedly having no moral or ethical principles is still around.