Second Amenment thoughts

[GrinningDwarf]

An ABC news promo I saw yesterday asked a question that just really crystalized the whole second amendment question for me. The promo went something like this...

"Does the second amendment protect the rights of individuals to own guns? Or is it supposed to protect the state's rights to have a well-armed militia? Tune in tomorrow when our experts discuss..."

[Oh, fer Pete's sake...I guess I'm supposed to actually have a link to a news article for this thread to qualify in 'News and Current Events'...so take yer pick...

High court considers landmark gun-rights case


Excerpts From Tuesday's Supreme Court Arguments on the District of Columbia Gun Ban


Comments on Arguments Before the Supreme Court on the DC Gun Ban


I hope that's good enough to qualify as a 'News and Current Events' thread.]

This question threw things into focus so clearly I'm amazed that I never noticed it before.

Why were the Bill of Rights, or the first ten Constitutional amendments, written, anyway? They were written because several states were initially opposed to the Constitution on the grounds that it contained no explicit protection of individual rights. The Bill of Rights were promised in recognition of these legitimate concerns.

Look at every other amendment in the Bill of Rights. They are all addressed to protect individual rights. Even the tenth amendment, which limits federal powers, reserves those powers to the states or to the people.

Why in the world, in the middle of all this concern for individual rights would there be one protecting the government's rights?

The answer to that is that there isn't. Even the second amendment was clearly written to protect individual rights.

In this debate, you can argue about whether individuals should have that right. But an arguement that the framers of the Constitution intended the second amendment to protect a state's rights to a militia is absolutely asinine, and is a clear example of what public education has done to the reasoning processes of so many people in the country today.

 

[SnapCount]

they should definitely limit the access to guns

When the 2nd amendment was established, it was to protect against British tyranny

 

[Avatar]

I'm a Canadian. You can have my slingshot when you pry it from my cold, dead hands!



Kidding, I have 3 rifles and a shotgun.

Edit: No handguns though, gun control means only criminals have them.

 

[GrinningDwarf]

When the 2nd amendment was established, it was to protect against British tyranny

Nope. It was to limit potential tyranny from our own government. Check these out...

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendment
during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves …"
Richard Henry Lee
writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic, Letter XVIII, May, 1788.

"… the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms"
Philadelphia Federal Gazette
June 18, 1789, Pg. 2, Col. 2
Article on the Bill of Rights

"Firearms stand next in importance to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence … from the hour the Pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurences and tendencies prove that to ensure peace security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable … the very atmosphere of firearms anywhere restrains evil interference — they deserve a place of honor with all that's good."
George Washington
First President of the United States

"The great object is that every man be armed." and "Everyone who is able may have a gun."
Patrick Henry
American Patriot

"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that … it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; … "
Thomas Jefferson
letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824. ME 16:45.

"The best we can help for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
Alexander Hamilton
The Federalist Papers at 184-8

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
Thomas Jefferson
to James Madison

"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and
better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for
an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
-Thomas Jefferson, quoting Cesare Beccaria.

"f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude, that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little if at all inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their rights and those of their fellow citizens. This appears to me the only substitutethat can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist." -- Alexander Hamilton of New York, The Federalist, No.29

 

[LonesomeTexan]

The day the slave driving federal bureacracy attempts to take my weapons is the day I'm going down taking out as many feds as I can.

 

[MichaelFJF]

they should definitely limit the access to guns

When the 2nd amendment was established, it was to protect against British tyranny

No...it wasn't.

 

[wademay4]

they should definitely limit the access to guns

When the 2nd amendment was established, it was to protect against British tyranny

Right, it was to protect from all of the British that were oppressing us in 1787 when the bill was ratified. Oh wait...

 

[eldermike]

The Bill of Rights was written to limit the powers of government. That's all you need to know.

 

[Billnew]

The Bill of Rights was written to limit the powers of government. That's all you need to know.

(almost, some need it spelled out for them.)
Limit the power of goverment, so the people could fight a goverment that oversteps its bounds.

You know like goverment reposessing land from citizens, so they could make money on it.

Infringing on freedom of speech, and freedom to peacefully assemble.

 

[NotreDame]

they should definitely limit the access to guns

When the 2nd amendment was established, it was to protect against British tyranny

If this does not constitute as revisionist history, then nothing ever will.

 

[Donkeytron]

The day the slave driving federal bureacracy attempts to take my weapons is the day I'm going down taking out as many feds as I can.

They have better guns than you. One less mouthbreather to worry about.

 

[MrAnteater]

Gun Control laws are absolutely worthless. All it does is take away law abiding citizens ability to protect themselves. Do you think criminals are ever going to follow the law?

The 30 year ban in DC proves that its been a failure. The murder rate is always among the highest in the country. God forbid if you live in DC and someone breaks into your house, how can you defend yourself? Hit the guy with a broom?

You can look to the UK and Australia for the increased crime associated with strict gun control. They have taken away almost all the guns from citizens and violent crimes have jumped right up.

However, states that have enacted right to carry legislation have seen a drop across the board in violent crime.

When are the Democrats going to quit beating this dead horse? It's been proven over and over gun control laws benefit criminals and leave citizens victims.

 

[3girls2dogs]

they should definitely limit the access to guns

When the 2nd amendment was established, it was to protect against British tyranny

Umm....no

 

[SnapCount]

actually the British government tried to disarm the colonists by capturing gunpowder and arsenals

which is why gun rights became such a big issue

that and the role the huge number of guns owned by colonists played in the revolution

 

[CaDan]

Take away my liberal card, but I think the Second Amendment pretty much means what it says. I support training and license to carry restrictions as a reasonable restriction that do not infringe upon the right to keep and bear, but that's about it.

 

[Avatar]

Gun Control laws are absolutely worthless. All it does is take away law abiding citizens ability to protect themselves. Do you think criminals are ever going to follow the law?

The 30 year ban in DC proves that its been a failure. The murder rate is always among the highest in the country. God forbid if you live in DC and someone breaks into your house, how can you defend yourself? Hit the guy with a broom?

You can look to the UK and Australia for the increased crime associated with strict gun control. They have taken away almost all the guns from citizens and violent crimes have jumped right up.

However, states that have enacted right to carry legislation have seen a drop across the board in violent crime.

When are the Democrats going to quit beating this dead horse? It's been proven over and over gun control laws benefit criminals and leave citizens victims.

Is that so? You have 3 and a half times the murder rate that we do, 2 and a half times the rate of firearm murders, And 1 and a half times the murder rate with handguns.

http://www.guncontrol.ca/Content/Cda-US.htm

We have gun control.

Or do you attribute this to a different cause? Considering that we're essentially identical culturally, racially and demographically.

 

[Sphere]

The day the slave driving federal bureacracy attempts to take my weapons is the day I'm going down taking out as many feds as I can.

Why are you supporting terrorism? Are you a terrorist?

Enough fantasy talk. No more of that nonsense. Aside from being completely unrealistic and bologna, it's the kind of foolish filth that only makes the anti-gun crowd look more appealing.

 

[Blackguard_]

Considering that we're essentially identical culturally, racially and demographically.

Our black population alone is about the size percentagewise of your entire minority population, we have about the same percentage again in hispanics, altough that numbers kinda fuzzy.

 

[BeamMeUpScotty]

Gun Control laws are absolutely worthless. All it does is take away law abiding citizens ability to protect themselves. Do you think criminals are ever going to follow the law?

The 30 year ban in DC proves that its been a failure. The murder rate is always among the highest in the country. God forbid if you live in DC and someone breaks into your house, how can you defend yourself? Hit the guy with a broom?

You can look to the UK and Australia for the increased crime associated with strict gun control. They have taken away almost all the guns from citizens and violent crimes have jumped right up.

However, states that have enacted right to carry legislation have seen a drop across the board in violent crime.

When are the Democrats going to quit beating this dead horse? It's been proven over and over gun control laws benefit criminals and leave citizens victims.

Sources?

 

[BeamMeUpScotty]

I do actually support a citizen's right to own arms. I even did so myself once (although I never actually fired it). However, I can see no reason why people should be allowed to own assault weapons and the such, nor why they shouldn't have background/safety checks to make sure they are competent to use guns before they can own them. For example, to own and drive a car one must have a license (after taking, usually 2 tests), insurance and registration. Why not with a gun? They are both potentially lethal, yes?


Where in the constitution was driving mentioned? Maybe because it wasn't invented yet. The world changes. Get used to it.

/Oh, and who here belongs to a state militia?