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deu58

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In 1902 she wrote, "San Francisco and Oakland are becoming as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the Lord will [punish] them...." Describing a vision she received on April 16, 1906, she wrote: "...there passed before me a most wonderful [astonishing, distressing] representation. During a vision of the night, I stood on an eminence, from which I could see houses shaken like a reed in the wind. Buildings, great and small, were falling to the ground. Pleasure resorts, theaters, hotels, and the homes of the wealthy were shaken and shattered. Many lives were blotted out of existence, and the air was filled with shrieks of the injured and the terrified.''


And the vision proved true. Two days later, Mrs. White, traveling to speak at the Los Angeles Carr Street Seventh-day Adventist church, heard a newsboy crying loudly, "San Francisco destroyed by an earthquake!" With an aching heart she read the details of her prophecy being fulfilled.

Today Seventh-day Adventists believe that the source of her writings, the source of her inspiration, was more than human; that the two thousand "visions" given her during her lifetime were the result of her having received the "gift of prophecy."

In your churches attempts to prop up your prophetess they even deny what she herself wrote about her visions concerning the San Francisco Earth Quake

Life Sketches of Ellen G White

Warnings and Exhortations, Pg 411

"Since the San Francisco earthquake, many rumors have been current regarding statements I have made. Some have reported that while in Los Angeles, I claimed that I had predicted the San Francisco earthquake and fire, and that Los Angeles would be the next city to suffer. This is not true. The morning after the earthquake, I said no more than that 'the earthquakes will come; the floods will come;' and that the Lord's message to us is that we shall 'not establish ourselves in the wicked cities.' {LS 411.2}

A Messenger of God

"To claim to be a prophetess," Ellen White wrote, "is something that I have never done.

A flat out lie, Nothing but double speak and attempts to cover her failures, More White Lies,

"The Holy Ghost is the Author of the Scriptures and of the Spirit of Prophecy."
{Selected Messages,Vol.3 p.30}

"These books contain clear ,straight, unalterable truth and they should be certainly appreciated The instruction they contain is not of human production" {Letter h-339,Dec 26,1904}

"I beg of you for Christ sake to consider what I say :
for I say it not of myself. It is the word of God to you" {Letter 25b, 1895,pp 1-3 to Brother and Sister Hare, April 1895}

"Why have I not claimed to be a prophet?- Because in these days many who boldly claim that they are prophets are a reproach to the cause of Christ; AND BECAUSE MY WORK INCLUDES MUCH MORE THAN THE WORD "PROPHET" SIGNIFIES."{ Review and Herald , July26, 1907}

"My commission
embraces the work of a prophet ,but does not end there.
{Selected messages vol .1pg 36, 1906}

Testimonies 5, p.64.
“Yet, now when I send you a testimony of warning and reproof, many of you declare it to be merely the opinion of Sister White. You thereby insulted the Spirit of God.”

Neither did John the Baptist call himself a prophet, but rather "the voice of one crying in the wilderness." Yet Christ called him a prophet: "A prophet? Yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet."

She was shown that her work was to embrace "much more" than the word prophet signifies. "Much more" included giving messages "from the Lord to His people"; teaching "health reform"; being a "medical missionary worker," setting "an example to the church by taking the sick into [her] home and caring for them"; speaking "to large assemblies on temperance"; reproving the oppressor and pleading for justice; promoting the care of the aged; taking orphans into her home "and then finding homes for them" or caring for and educating them for service; traveling often; writing much; and taking up "work in any line that [the Lord points out].''Although she never held a church office, she wrote, "I have a work of great responsibility to do--to impart by pen and voice the instruction given me, not alone to Seventh-day Adventists, but to the world.''

More double speak, In an attempt to try and show that a woman was not ordained by the SDA's they fail to acknowledge that she had the power and the authority to remove those who WERE ordained from their positions if she did not teach what she told them to, So who was the true head and power of the SDA church ordained or not???

She was the living and is now the dead spiritual Pope of the SDA church,

Her textbook was the Bible, and she wrote, "As the Spirit of God has opened to my mind the great truths of His word, and the scenes of the past and the future, I have been bidden to make known to others that which has thus been revealed...."

And got it all wrong, Here is a sample of her "Visions" from the past Giving us the details she believed the bible left out.

Ellen G White says,

It was Herod who had the crown of thorns placed on the head of Jesus

Spirit of Prophecy vol 3, Pgs 138- 139

At the suggestion of Herod, a crown was now plaited from a vine bearing sharp thorns, and this was placed upon the sacred brow of Jesus; and an old tattered purple robe, once the garment of a king, was placed upon his noble form, while Herod and the Jewish priests encouraged the insults and cruelty of the mob. Jesus was then placed upon a large block, which was derisively called a throne, an old reed was placed in his
139
hand as a scepter, and, amid satanic laughter, curses, and jeers, the rude throng bowed to him mockingly as to a king. Occasionally some murderous hand snatched the reed that had been placed in his hand, and struck him on the head with it, forcing the thorns into his temples, and causing the blood to flow down his face and beard. {3SP 138.2}


The Biblical account is not even close to what Ellen White claimed was revealed to her,


The Bible says,

Mt 27:26 Then released he Barabbas unto them: and when he had scourged Jesus, he delivered him to be crucified.

Mt 27:27 Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the common hall, and gathered unto him the whole band of soldiers.

Mt 27:28 And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe.

Mt 27:29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!


Mr 15:14 Then Pilate said unto them, Why, what evil hath he done? And they cried out the more exceedingly, Crucify him.

Mr 15:15 And so Pilate, willing to content the people, released Barabbas unto them, and delivered Jesus, when he had scourged him, to be crucified.

Mr 15:16 And the soldiers led him away into the hall, called Praetorium; and they call together the whole band.

Mr 15:17 And they clothed him with purple, and platted a crown of thorns, and put it about his head,

Mr 15:18 And began to salute him, Hail, King of the Jews!


Joh 19:1 Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him.

Joh 19:2 And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,

Joh 19:3 And said, Hail, King of the Jews! and they smote him with their hands.

The account of what transpired at Herods is only mentioned in the Gospel of Luke.

Lu 23:11 And Herod with his men of war set him at nought, and mocked him, and arrayed him in a gorgeous robe, and sent him again to Pilate.

Lu 23:12 And the same day Pilate and Herod were made friends together: for before they were at enmity between themselves.

Sister White said, "At the suggestion of Herod, a crown was now plaited from a vine bearing sharp thorns,"

It was not Herod or his men that placed the crown of thorns upon Jesus. This was done by the Roman soldiers under Pilate. Herod suggested no such thing.

and an old tattered purple robe, once the garment of a king, was placed upon his noble form,

The Bible says it was a "gorgeous robe" that Herod had placed on Jesus, The purple robe was put upon him by the Roman soldiers. Not the men of Herod. Nor does the Bible say it was the old tattered robe of a king. One would have to wonder why a man of wealth and power like Herod would keep an old tattered robe around in the first place,

Lu 23:11.......And Herod with his men of war set him at nought, and mocked him, and arrayed him in a gorgeous robe,

There is no mention of its color or that it had once belonged to a king. Mark and John record that the robe used by the Roman soldiers was Purple

Mr 15:15 And so Pilate, willing to content the people, released Barabbas unto them, and delivered Jesus, when he had scourged him, to be crucified.

Mr 15:16 And the soldiers led him away into the hall, called Praetorium; and they call together the whole band.

Mr 15:17 And they clothed him with purple, and platted a crown of thorns, and put it about his head,

Joh 19:1 Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him.

Joh 19:2 And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,

Joh 19:3 And said, Hail, King of the Jews! and they smote him with their hands.

Matthew records the robe as scarlet, Either way all say this was done by the Roman Soldiers under Pilate and not the men of Herod or the angry mob,


while Herod and the Jewish priests encouraged the insults and cruelty of the mob. Jesus was then placed upon a large block, which was derisively called a throne, an old reed was placed in his hand as a scepter, and, amid satanic laughter, curses, and jeers, the rude throng bowed to him mockingly as to a king.

Lu 23:10 And the chief priests and scribes stood and vehemently accused him.

There is no record of the mob being present at the audience with Herod nor about a large block which was used as his throne. This has all been added contrary to what the Bible says actually says transpired.

Sister White said people who were part of the mob struck Jesus on the head with a reed.

Occasionally some murderous hand snatched the reed that had been placed in his hand, and struck him on the head with it, forcing the thorns into his temples, and causing the blood to flow down his face and beard. {3SP 138.2}

According to Matthew 27 this was not done by the mob but by the Roman soldiers under Pilate in the Preatorium.

Mt 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.

Mt 27:29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!

Mt 27:30 And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head.

Mt 27:27 Then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the common hall, and gathered unto him the whole band of soldiers.

Mt 27:28 And they stripped him, and put on him a scarlet robe.

Mt 27:29 And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!

Mt 27:30 And they spit upon him, and took the reed, and smote him on the head.

Mt 27:31 And after that they had mocked him, they took the robe off from him, and put his own raiment on him, and led him away to crucify him.


The Biblical account and the account presented by Ellen G White are in complete contradiction.


yours in Christ
deu 58
 
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deu58

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Seventh-day Adventists do not claim her writings to be more important than Scripture. Rather, they believe that Scripture is the sovereign rule of faith and practice, the supreme source of doctrine, the standard by which her (and all other) writings are to be judged. They believe her writings are a light from Heaven for this generation, a light reflecting the timeless light of Scripture, which is written for all generations. She encouraged believers to pattern their lives after the life of Christ. Her life's goal was to uplift Jesus, who, alone, brings us close to God. Therefore, she presented Scripture principles in greater detail--principles which, accepted and practiced, would restore God's image in mankind.

More half truths, Not even half truths really, Just a fraction at best,



Review and Herald Supplement, August 14, 1883.

“It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is the Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words

Arthur White, grandson of Ellen White, and for years the head of the Ellen G. White Estate, made the following claim:

Seventh-day Adventists are uniquely fortunate in approaching the question of inspiration of the prophets. We are not left to find our way, drawing our conclusions from writings of two thousand years and more ago, that have come down to us through varied transcriptions and translations. With us it is an almost contemporary matter, for we had a prophet in our midst. It is generally granted by the careful student of her works that the experience of Ellen G. White was no different from that of the prophets of old. What is more, rather than having in our possession only relatively few chapters of a handful of letters as is the case of the extant records of the Bible prophets, we have the full range of Ellen G. White’s writings, penned through a period of 70 years. She wrote in the English language, so we are not confronted with the problems of translation. The Ellen G. White Writings, p. 15.



So lets see here, You use the bible to judge the Spirit of Prophecy, But first you use the Spirit of Prophecy to interpret the Bible because it is the only infallible interpreter of the bible to make your judgment that the Spirit of Prophecy is really true. That sure makes sense,
 
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Airdude

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deu58 said:
Seventh-day Adventists do not claim her writings to be more important than Scripture. Rather, they believe that Scripture is the sovereign rule of faith and practice, the supreme source of doctrine, the standard by which her (and all other) writings are to be judged. They believe her writings are a light from Heaven for this generation, a light reflecting the timeless light of Scripture, which is written for all generations. She encouraged believers to pattern their lives after the life of Christ. Her life's goal was to uplift Jesus, who, alone, brings us close to God. Therefore, she presented Scripture principles in greater detail--principles which, accepted and practiced, would restore God's image in mankind.

More half truths, Not even half truths really, Just a fraction at best,



Review and Herald Supplement, August 14, 1883.

“It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is the Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words

Arthur White, grandson of Ellen White, and for years the head of the Ellen G. White Estate, made the following claim:

Seventh-day Adventists are uniquely fortunate in approaching the question of inspiration of the prophets. We are not left to find our way, drawing our conclusions from writings of two thousand years and more ago, that have come down to us through varied transcriptions and translations. With us it is an almost contemporary matter, for we had a prophet in our midst. It is generally granted by the careful student of her works that the experience of Ellen G. White was no different from that of the prophets of old. What is more, rather than having in our possession only relatively few chapters of a handful of letters as is the case of the extant records of the Bible prophets, we have the full range of Ellen G. White’s writings, penned through a period of 70 years. She wrote in the English language, so we are not confronted with the problems of translation. The Ellen G. White Writings, p. 15.



So lets see here, You use the bible to judge the Spirit of Prophecy, But first you use the Spirit of Prophecy to interpret the Bible because it is the only infallible interpreter of the bible to make your judgment that the Spirit of Prophecy is really true. That sure makes sense,

Since this thread has gotten a long way off the original topic I would suggest that you take up any issues you may have in the SDA forum.
Bye :wave:
 
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deu58

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Hi Airdude
Airdude said:
Since this thread has gotten a long way off the original topic I would suggest that you take up any issues you may have in the SDA forum.
Bye :wave:

Those forums are not for these kinds of debates, And it is a good policy, like minded people should have a place where they can go and just fellowship with each other,

If you want we could move it to the SDA question thread, That is pretty much a catch all for anything SDA,:wave:

yours in Christ
dedu 58
 
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Cliff2

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deu58 said:
Seventh-day Adventists do not claim her writings to be more important than Scripture. Rather, they believe that Scripture is the sovereign rule of faith and practice, the supreme source of doctrine, the standard by which her (and all other) writings are to be judged. They believe her writings are a light from Heaven for this generation, a light reflecting the timeless light of Scripture, which is written for all generations. She encouraged believers to pattern their lives after the life of Christ. Her life's goal was to uplift Jesus, who, alone, brings us close to God. Therefore, she presented Scripture principles in greater detail--principles which, accepted and practiced, would restore God's image in mankind.

More half truths, Not even half truths really, Just a fraction at best,



Review and Herald Supplement, August 14, 1883.

“It is from the standpoint of the light that has come through the Spirit of Prophecy that the question will be considered, believing as we do that the Spirit of Prophecy is the only infallible interpreter of Bible principles, since it is the Christ, through this agency, giving real meaning of his own words

Arthur White, grandson of Ellen White, and for years the head of the Ellen G. White Estate, made the following claim:

Seventh-day Adventists are uniquely fortunate in approaching the question of inspiration of the prophets. We are not left to find our way, drawing our conclusions from writings of two thousand years and more ago, that have come down to us through varied transcriptions and translations. With us it is an almost contemporary matter, for we had a prophet in our midst. It is generally granted by the careful student of her works that the experience of Ellen G. White was no different from that of the prophets of old. What is more, rather than having in our possession only relatively few chapters of a handful of letters as is the case of the extant records of the Bible prophets, we have the full range of Ellen G. White’s writings, penned through a period of 70 years. She wrote in the English language, so we are not confronted with the problems of translation. The Ellen G. White Writings, p. 15.



So lets see here, You use the bible to judge the Spirit of Prophecy, But first you use the Spirit of Prophecy to interpret the Bible because it is the only infallible interpreter of the bible to make your judgment that the Spirit of Prophecy is really true. That sure makes sense,

You obviously do not understand how doctrine was developed in the SDA Church.

It was nothing like you think.
 
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deu58

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Cliff2 said:
You obviously do not understand how doctrine was developed in the SDA Church.

It was nothing like you think.

I know how the doctrines were formed.

Sanctuary=Hiram Edson, Ellen G White,

Investigative Judgment = Ellen G White,

Sabbath = Ellen G White,

Third Angels Message = Ellen G White,

Scape Goat= Ellen G White,

Shut Door = Ellen G White

After shut door failed, Open and Shut door= Ellen G White

Sunday Law = Ellen G White

It is all in the Spirit of Prophecy guy;)

yours in Christ
deu 58
 
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statrei

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deu58 said:
I know how the doctrines were formed.

Sanctuary=Hiram Edson, Ellen G White,

Investigative Judgment = Ellen G White,

Sabbath = Ellen G White,

Third Angels Message = Ellen G White,

Scape Goat= Ellen G White,

Shut Door = Ellen G White

After shut door failed, Open and Shut door= Ellen G White

Sunday Law = Ellen G White

It is all in the Spirit of Prophecy guy;)

yours in Christ
deu 58
I commend you on your grasp of things EGW. I only hope you have as good a grasp of the many errors you hold.
 
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deu58

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Hello Stateri

statrei said:
I commend you on your grasp of things EGW. I only hope you have as good a grasp of the many errors you hold.

I have never claimed to be a perfect man with perfect knowledge, We are all in error in some way at sometime, We`are all imperfect men and women trying to discern the perfect will of God,

It is just that some errors are more obvious than others and simple to discern,

Others are more complicated and very difficult to discern, Christ did say that if possible even the very elect will be decieved, The greatest lies are the ones that seem to contain the most truth,

Look around here at all the people claiming to be Christians and all the disagreements that abound, We are a dysfunctional family,

Look at all the arguments here about proper days of worship, Once saved always saved, Are the Mormons and J.W,s saved, What about the Homosexuals and marraige? What is the Trinity, Is there a really a trinity?? What you should or should not eat, The bible is in fallible, The bible is in error, Which bible is the best, State of the dead, The spiritual gifts today, And on and on,

As for me I try to to stay with in the confines of the bible, Only a fool would say they understand it all, I do try to take it literally, Maybe to literally for some and not literally enough for others,

Maybe the liberals are all right and we are all wrong, Maybe the crucifixion means you can get your cake and eat it to, Maybe we really can just sin our way into heaven, Simply live the good life and let God worry about everything

But as for me and my house we shall serve the lord, The only place I know of today that really teaches how to do that anymore is Gods word, So if I am going to error, and I know I am, I prefer to error on the side of caution and stick to what is his in his word and do my best to follow it, There is to much at stake to throw caution to the winds, I do not like the thought of missing the chance to be with God forever,

Now with people with a mind set like yours, It is Jewish history misinterpreted by our unimformed ancestors in the NT that probably does not make much sense,

But the bible is the only book that God says, I wrote it, I have confirmed it as my truth and I expect you to follow what I have I said, So I will continue to do that to the best of my ability,

yours in Christ
deu 58
 
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statrei

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deu58 said:
But the bible is the only book that God says, I wrote it, I have confirmed it as my truth and I expect you to follow what I have I said, So I will continue to do that to the best of my ability,

yours in Christ
deu 58
Did you get a notarized memo from Him?
 
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deu58

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Hi Stateri
statrei said:
Did you get a notarized memo from Him?

Yes, It is in the book,


2ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: ;)
 
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statrei

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deu58 said:
Hi Stateri


Yes, It is in the book,


2ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: ;)
Who said that? Do you have any idea what is included in "all Scripture?" Do you know what literature Paul was referring to? Do you care?
 
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deu58

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statrei said:
Who said that? Do you have any idea what is included in "all Scripture?" Do you know what literature Paul was referring to? Do you care?


Hello Stateri

2pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

2pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


As can be seen from above the writings and letters were already considered as valid scripture while they were still alive,

I wonder, Do ever really spend any time with the bible???? You really do not seem to know much about what is in it,

I am not trying to pull your chain either, I really get the impression that you must have given up on the bible a long time ago
and have lost touch with what is really in it,

yours in Christ
deu 58
 
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statrei

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deu58 said:
Hello Stateri

2pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

2pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


As can be seen from above the writings and letters were already considered as valid scripture while they were still alive,

I wonder, Do ever really spend any time with the bible???? You really do not seem to know much about what is in it,

I am not trying to pull your chain either, I really get the impression that you must have given up on the bible a long time ago
and have lost touch with what is really in it,

yours in Christ
deu 58
So, you think Peter had the authority to add to the Scriptures? Who else do you think has that authority, or do you only yield to men from 2,000 years ago?
 
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deu58

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Hello Stateri

statrei said:
So, you think Peter had the authority to add to the Scriptures? Who else do you think has that authority, or do you only yield to men from 2,000 years ago?

When John the last apostle died, That was the end, I do not believe in Apostolic succession, The statement where Jesus said what you bind on earth I will bind in heaven etc etc was given to the apostles,

Not you, Not me like many churchs teach today that we all have the power to do this, I disagree, James said do not have many masters among you, There were only supposed to be a few teachers to establish doctrine, Not many,

Many teachers have simply brought into being the Babylon we have today in the church as a whole,

yours in Christ
deu 58
 
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