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bekkilyn

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While I have serious disagreements with some SDA doctrine (i.e. sabbath days are any day that happen to be a sabbath, not just a feast day), I have to say that it is nice to have an SDA on this site that can actually hold a *discussion* rather than just making programmed responses to everything that's said.

And there is no way we are work based. We do, believe in keeping the 10 commandments, as do most churches. Even Billy Graham believed that---or do you believe that you can enter into the presence of God breaking them, and being unrepentant?

The argument isn't whether or not someone can break the 10 commandments, but that we have a different "yardstick" now in the Holy Spirit. The 10 commandments was part of the Mosaic covenant made with the Israelites at Sinai. Jesus fulfilled the purpose of that law and the gift of the Holy Spirit (in our hearts) makes the stone tablets obsolete, at least for Christians who have the Spirit. The Spirit is an "upgrade" so to speak.

If it was a sin to break the seventh day sabbath, the Spirit would convict people concerning it, but the Spirit has been silent about it as the seventh day sabbath is the sign of the Mosaic covenant like circumcision was the sign of the Abrahamic covenant. The signs of the new covenant are baptism and the Lord's supper and Jesus himself is our rest.

While it can be very beneficial to practice a day of sabbath, we are not condemned for *not* doing so because we are not under that covenant and never have been if not Jewish.
 
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Rick Otto

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Hyperbola rules.
Overstatements and over-reactions.
The kernel of truth in in the exaggerated-2-make-a-point phrase "sheep stealing" is that ANY group (accuser's group too) will intrinsically include an aspect of recruitment. It isn't good or bad, it's just the basic math of identity, identification, organization and the like.
Being different, distinguishing ourselves from the 'herd' is also routine.
I have basic problems most people don't relate to that help give me pause about joining groups.
Quirky stuff like steeples and institutionalized authority, etc. Novelty items in most people's minds.
 
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Rick Otto

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Mhm.
I remember getting a huge "conviction" about it as a youngster, but I also remember it being tempered with a realization my reaction was of the flesh.
And the move to Sunday worship as I remember looked authoritarian rather than inspired.
But then I'm like the JWs when it comes to birthdays & holidays so you can't really take me anywhere, lol
 
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ToBeLoved

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While I appreciate you speaking from your own life, I do feel it’s a little disingenuous to present that SDA doesn’t steal sheep based only on your own experience.

IMHO every Old Covenant based denom tries to steal sheep from grace based denom s using the letter of the Law to show grace is ineffective to pleasing God.

You’ve been doing it in this thread.
 
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ToBeLoved

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If it was a sin to break the seventh day sabbath, the Spirit would convict people concerning it, but the Spirit has been silent about it as the seventh day sabbath.
Amen!

The Holy Spirit is not convicting us. The Spirit of Truth!

Enough said.
 
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mmksparbud

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It is not until the Spirit convicts that it then becomes sin. Said that before. The problem lies with those that once they are convicted, they deem it such an inconvenience, that they will not change. I can not convince or convict--Only the Holy Spirit can do that. And only God knows when that line has been crossed. But yes, we do believe there will come a day when a choice will have to be made.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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One friendly suggesting for those of us who use worn out mouse scroll wheels.
For very long posts, wrap it in quotes.
See how it looks when I quote your above post?
Then all one has to do to read it is "click to expand". It also shortens the thread.......

"Utterly" gets a pretty good work out, too.

Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon
Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
"utterly"
occurs 91 times in 87 verses in the NKJV.
Page 2 / 2 exact matches (Psa 89:33–Rev 18:8) Last time used:

Revelation 18:8
“Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine.
And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges[fn] her.


OC Jerusalem, Lake of Fire the Same?




.
 
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ToBeLoved

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So a Sat Sabbath is more inconvenient than say “thou shalt not kill” or “honor your mother and father”?

Not a good argument with billions of Christians walking the earth.

Every commandment of God is inconvenient. Also, the Holy Spirit does not stop convicting. So under your premise, those who have listened to the Spirit say a longer amount of time, should in effect see the light of a Sat Sabbath so to speak, but that doesn’t happen.

This argument falls flat.
 
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mmksparbud

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It is not based on my own experience---shall we say just plain old common sense also.
What in the world constitutes sheep stealing?? How is that done--swing a lasso and rope you in, drug you at potluck? Really? I have been presenting my take on what I read in the bible, which also happens to be in agreement with what the SDA church believes--If my believes were different, I would look elsewhere. And that is what the majority of those "sheep" are doing--They had been reading the bible on their own, without their pastor, their priest, their leader telling them what the bible says and when they heard our point of view, they found it was the same as they had been reading for themselves. I've lost count of how many people said that. I had a former Catholic friend who at 13 said she no longer believed in Sunday as the Sabbath---her family hit the roof and so did her priest and she shut up, until she was older. Then she got married and he was Catholic, but then she kept going back to the bible and eventually she ran across an SDA church and she kept coming. Her husband was not happy, but he came a few times--we didn't rope her in, she found us. She died from cancer, and I don't know what happened to the husband.
I've never said that grace is inefficient at pleasing God--He gives that away. At the same time---you can't get into the kingdom while being an unrepentant sinner. Nobody has been able to say that. As to what constitutes conviction, that is between God and the individual.
 
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mmksparbud

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Didn't think of that--thanks.



Every commandment of God is inconvenient. Also, the Holy Spirit does not stop convicting. So under your premise, those who have listened to the Spirit say a longer amount of time, should in effect see the light of a Sat Sabbath so to speak, but that doesn’t happen.

This argument falls flat.[/QUOTE]
 
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mmksparbud

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Really? I've found otherwise. It is very inconvenient to uproot your job if you can't get Saturdays, off, your whole schedule is messed up. I've known many who quite their jobs and in fact ended up changing their whole careers. It is very inconvenient! Some change their shopping days even. It is far more inconvenient than thou shall not kill---or honor you mother and father--of course, that depends on how intolerable your parents are! And as one woman said when asked about how she stayed married to one man for 60 years---"Back then, one did not even think of divorce---murder yes--divorce never!"
Well---so far over 20 million have been convicted.
 
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mmksparbud

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You’ve been doing it in this thread.

Missed that one---so---how am I doing? With only my husband so far, a few more sheep would be nice---nobody has been PMing me in a hypnotic state wanted to join up---bummer.
 
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stephen pollard

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It is not until the Spirit convicts that it then becomes sin. Said that before. .
What are you saying? Christians commit sin constantly, and after a certain amount of time this has been happening, The Holy Spirit then convicts them they are sinning? Why would the Holy Spirit want people to continue in sin, in ignorance of the fact they are sinning?

Sin is still sin. If I took the Lords name in vain without knowing I am committing sin(not possible if you are truly born again) I would still be committing sin for I would be transgressing the law
Non Christians are still sinners, without the conviction of the Holy Spirit they are committing sin
 
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stephen pollard

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You cannot hide from law placed in your most inward parts. What is in your mind you in your mind must know, and law in your heart must bring heartfelt conviction of sin when you wilfully transgress it. For:
Sin is the transgression of the law (1John3:4)
Through the law we become conscious of sin Rom3:20
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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Didn't think of that--thanks.
And thank you.
As far as "utterly destroy" goes, it is the Hebrew word #H2763
[corresponding to the Greek word #G331 for "anathema"]

[Because of the detailed length of this post, I am going to wrap the rest of it in "quotes".
Just "click to expand"]

 
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ToBeLoved

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How is it easier to get off every Sun then it is every Sat?

You don’t think getting off on a weekend is inconvenient for everyone?

Wow. You make such a great case for the great sacrifices of people in SDA.

I almost want to chuckle in how niave it is to say.
 
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1stcenturylady

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1) They view themselves to be the one and only true remnant church.

No, that is Mormans that say that exact quote. SDA believes in keeping the 7th day Sabbath, but there are other denominations that do the same, they are not the "only" denomination to keep the Sabbath. Messianics, 7th day Baptist, etc.

Jesus came to seek and to save the lost.
The SDA has come to seek and to enslave the saved.
And to steal their grace-based salvation by replacing it with a works-based system.

That is what they are doing on this forum. I stand against this.

I stand against Judaizing, just as Paul did. In other words, their condemning of those who keep all days alike. But I do not condemn them for keeping the letter of the old law, as their heart is for God, not against Him.

I do not consider them a cult.
 
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ToBeLoved

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Missed that one---so---how am I doing? With only my husband so far, a few more sheep would be nice---nobody has been PMing me in a hypnotic state wanted to join up---bummer.
I think the best recruitment is getting goats and letting Christ make them sheep anyways.

I hope you have been well.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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So do I.........

Edit to add:
The SDA's do not practice full blown OC Judaism.......
However, if I am not mistaken, Messianic Jewish Christians do.
Here is their board for those interested.

Messianic Judaism
Messianic Jews and Gentiles

And a thread on "Judaizing"

What exactly is a "judaizer" today
What exactly is a "judaizer" today


.
 
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bekkilyn

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No, that is Mormans that say that exact quote. SDA believes in keeping the 7th day Sabbath, but there are other denominations that do the same, they are not the "only" denomination to keep the Sabbath. Messianics, 7th day Baptist, etc.

Actually if you attend one of their baptisms (or are baptized by them) you will see them get asked a set of questions based on a summary of their beliefs, and the last one that you must agree to is, "I believe that the Seventh-day Adventist Church is the remnant church of Bible prophecy, into which people of every nation, race, class, and language are invited and accepted, and I desire membership in its fellowship."

They will also reveal later in their prophecy/evangelizing seminars that they are the remnant church described in Revelation. It's one of the big things they build towards in the preceding sessions.

That doesn't mean that Messianics, 7th day Baptists, etc. wouldn't be included because people from all denominations are to be called out of them to the SDA church once they have to make the final choice between Sunday (mark of the beast) and Saturday (seal of God) worship when the "Sunday law" takes effect.
 
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