What exactly is a "judaizer" today

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Frogster *snip*
yep..the same wonderful mindset that Jesus encountered,was still looming in the deep psychology of the judaizers..

A CF member brings up "judaizers" a lot on other threads, so I thought it would help if I made a thread on it.

Can anyone explain to me what a "judaizer" is and are there any of those today within Christianity or elsewhere? Thanks

Here is how wiki defines them:

Judaizers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*snip*

Judaizers refers to those who claim the necessity of obedience to the Torah Laws by Christians, which is normally considered a requisite only for the followers of Judaism. Similarly, "one who has Judaized" refers to a Christian who has accepted the necessity of adhering to the Torah Laws, see also Biblical law in Christianity.

The ongoing debate over Judaizing in Christianity, which began in the lifetime of the apostles, reflects the contemporaneous debate within Judaism as to the place of Gentiles with regard to the Law of Moses, see also Proselyte, Noahide Law, Jewish background to the early Christian circumcision controversy, and Dual-covenant theology.

 

[brinny]

A CF member brings up "judaizers" a lot on other threads, so I thought it would help if I made a thread on it.

Can anyone explain to me what a "judaizer" is and are there any of those today within Christianity or elsewhere? Thanks

Here is how wiki defines them:

Judaizers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*snip*

Judaizers refers to those who claim the necessity of obedience to the Torah Laws by Christians, which is normally considered a requisite only for the followers of Judaism. Similarly, "one who has Judaized" refers to a Christian who has accepted the necessity of adhering to the Torah Laws, see also Biblical law in Christianity.

The ongoing debate over Judaizing in Christianity, which began in the lifetime of the apostles, reflects the contemporaneous debate within Judaism as to the place of Gentiles with regard to the Law of Moses, see also Proselyte, Noahide Law, Jewish background to the early Christian circumcision controversy, and Dual-covenant theology.

hmmmmm......gotta study on this....cuz at first thought, i'd say that to do so is wrong....

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

hmmmmm......gotta study on this....cuz at first thought, i'd say that to do so is wrong....

Could be...
I am gonna just lurk awhile, as I have plenty of NT/NC Bible verses to bring up concerning "them" [including the book of Revelation of course ]

 

[Frogster]

I suppose a good defimition would be,those who dont like Galatians.

 

[brinny]

LOL i find it incredible that any of us finite of-dust beings would have the audacity to separate out portions of the Bible cuz we, in our infinite (NOT) wisdom decide it doesn't apply

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I suppose a good defimition would be,those who dont like Galatians.

And who would those be today?

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Galatian 4:30 but what saith the Writing? 'be Casting-Out!/ek-bale <1544> (5628) the maid-servant/paidiskhn <3814> and the son of her....
[Genesis 21:10/Reve 11:2]

Revelation 11:2 and the court/fold, the *without/in of the Sanctuary, be Casting-Out!/ek-bale <1544> (5628) out-side/exw <1854>, and no her thou should be measuring,
[Galatian 4:30?]

The Court in Revelation 11:2 - Christian Forums
The Court in Revelation 11:2

 

[Yab Yum]

IMHO a modern "Judaizer" is someone who commits the "sin of exclusivism" - which is the "perenniel heresy" whereby people "insist that God has no right to extend his mercy to a given class of persons". (Talbott, 1999).

Matt 20:10 Now when those hired first came, they thought they would receive more, but each of them also received a denarius. 11 And on receiving it they grumbled at the master of the house, 12 saying, &#8216;These last worked only one hour, and you have made them equal to us who have borne the burden of the day and the scorching heat.&#8217; 13 But he replied to one of them, &#8216;Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14 Take what belongs to you and go. I choose to give to this last worker as I give to you. 15 Am I not allowed to do what I choose with what belongs to me? Or do you begrudge my generosity?&#8217; 16 So the last will be first, and the first last.&#8221;

 

[New_Wineskin]

A CF member brings up "judaizers" a lot on other threads, so I thought it would help if I made a thread on it.

Can anyone explain to me what a "judaizer" is and are there any of those today within Christianity or elsewhere? Thanks

Here is how wiki defines them:

Judaizers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

*snip*

Judaizers refers to those who claim the necessity of obedience to the Torah Laws by Christians, which is normally considered a requisite only for the followers of Judaism. Similarly, "one who has Judaized" refers to a Christian who has accepted the necessity of adhering to the Torah Laws, see also Biblical law in Christianity.

The ongoing debate over Judaizing in Christianity, which began in the lifetime of the apostles, reflects the contemporaneous debate within Judaism as to the place of Gentiles with regard to the Law of Moses, see also Proselyte, Noahide Law, Jewish background to the early Christian circumcision controversy, and Dual-covenant theology.

There are cerainly many in christianity ( small "c" ) today . Just as those in the beginning , they demand that certain things/works are mandatory because of tradition and/or "the bible says so" . That was the problem with the "Judaizers" before and the attitude is *prevalent* in christian circles today .

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Judaizer in the Christian context is a Jew wannabe that wanna everyone else to be Jews also .

 

[Seeking Him]

There are cerainly many in christianity ( small "c" ) today . Just as those in the beginning , they demand that certain things/works are mandatory because of tradition and/or "the bible says so" . That was the problem with the "Judaizers" before and the attitude is *prevalent* in christian circles today .

Yes, they demand certain things mandatory because of tradition. Just as the Judaizers back then tried to dismantle the finished work of the cross, so today many Christians are doing the same thing.

Jesus said "It is finished". How often do you here that taught in churches. Where I visit, you would never know the good news of Christ's victory. The cross is being made of no effect by man centered, humanistic teachings. A little leaven leavens the whole lump.

 

[Tzaousios]

It seems to me that the term "Judaizer" today is used as a pejorative term by more liberal-minded Christians against those whom they perceive to be conservative Christians or ones who hold an inerrantist view of Scripture.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

It seems to me that the term "Liberal-Minded" today is used as a pejorative term by more conservative-minded Christians against those whom they perceive to be liberal Christians or ones who hold a different view of how to interpret Scripture than they do.

 

[Tzaousios]

It seems to me that the term "Liberal-Minded" today is used as a pejorative term by more conservative-minded Christians against those whom they perceive to be liberal Christians or ones who hold a different view of how to interpret Scripture than they do.

Hmm...it seems my response struck a chord with you. Instead of mocking reply, what do you propose that "liberal" and "conservative" and "inerrantist" be replaced with? Despite the mockery, it seems you disagree on the terms.

 

[cyberlizard]

I suppose a good defimition would be,those who dont like Galatians.

i like galatians. I just disagree with the usual exposition of the book.



Steve

p.s. I read the word circumcision and understand it to mean 'ritual conversion to judaism'.

 

[cyberlizard]

Judaizer in the Christian context is a Jew wannabe that wanna everyone else to be Jews also .

i think we should stick to the biblical definition of the verb to judaize rather than attaching baggage to it. biblically it has nothing to do with being 'jew wannabees'.


Steve

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Hmm...it seems my response struck a chord with you. Instead of mocking reply, what do you propose that "liberal" and "conservative" and "inerrantist" be replaced with? Despite the mockery, it seems you disagree on the terms.

I was just showing the flip side of the coin

wasn't mocking . though in the past i admit .

i might have been . so i understand your perception .

but all i meant was just because you have what you call an "inerrant view of scripture" it doesn't mean your view of interpreting them is correct .

 

[Gregory Thompson]

i think we should stick to the biblical definition of the verb to judaize rather than attaching baggage to it. biblically it has nothing to do with being 'jew wannabees'.


Steve

Sure it does .

since acts when the apostles asked "will you restore the jewish nation at this time?" and Jesus said "none of your business go use the power i gave you to preach the gospel"

but in a number of literal and figurative interpretations from that moment on .. the church has attempted to be that restoration . when truly . it is God and God alone that will bring that restoration .

and all this doctrine being law heavy drowning out the sweet song of grace by sheer proportion of words through emphasis .

jew wannabes indeed .

The original Judaizers wanted to be jews while christians and compelled others to be circumcized .

and today Judaizers want to claim to be relying on Jesus and justify themselves by following the law and compell others to do so under the same diress of not being saved if you don't listen .

grace is grace is grace . and if you can earn it . it is no longer grace .

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*
Sure it does .

since acts when the apostles asked "will you restore the jewish nation at this time?" and Jesus said "none of your business go use the power i gave you to preach the gospel"

jew wannabes indeed .

The original Judaizers wanted to be jews while christians and compelled others to be circumcized .

and today Judaizers want to claim to be relying on Jesus and justify themselves by following the law and compell others to do so under the same diress of not being saved if you don't listen . .

You might be interested in this thread started by a Jew on the NCR board. There is no love loss between Jews and Messianics from what I have seen....

http://www.christianforums.com/t2326272/
Of Jews and Messianics

quote OP:
BS'D

This thread is for discussion between Messianic Christians and Jews. Some Jews in our small community have really grown weary of Messianics and wish not to bother with them on our Kosher thread and yet others want to dialouge with them.

This thread is just for that. Jews and Messianics tackling issues that seem to be cropping up in other threads and derailing the subject.

I'll kick it off, Why do Messianics seek the acceptance of Judaism?

 

[New_Wineskin]

You might be interested in this thread started by a Jew on the NCR board. There is no love loss between Jews and Messianics from what I have seen....

http://www.christianforums.com/t2326272/
Of Jews and Messianics

quote OP:
BS'D

This thread is for discussion between Messianic Christians and Jews. Some Jews in our small community have really grown weary of Messianics and wish not to bother with them on our Kosher thread and yet others want to dialouge with them.

This thread is just for that. Jews and Messianics tackling issues that seem to be cropping up in other threads and derailing the subject.

I'll kick it off, Why do Messianics seek the acceptance of Judaism?

I can understand why .

 

[Frogster]

i like galatians. I just disagree with the usual exposition of the book.



Steve

p.s. I read the word circumcision and understand it to mean 'ritual conversion to judaism'.

And when converted,it became mandatory,that they followed the law.Gal 5:3.