SDA Question

[statrei]

Hello Stateri

Is this a mistake in grammer or is what you really mean???? She had a divine Ministry but made mistakes in sustantial areas of truth?????

What good is a divine ministry that makes mistakes in Substantial areas????

yours in Christ
deu 58

The same is true of the Hebrews, the Jews and the Early Church. Your problem is that you want to use other humans as your conduit to the mind of the Creator. This is why you want them to be absolutely perfect. He prefers a much more intimate relationship than that. Get rid of that big chip on your shoulder. It is weighing you down.

 

[deu58]

Hello Statrei

The same is true of the Hebrews, the Jews and the Early Church. Your problem is that you want to use other humans as your conduit to the mind of the Creator. This is why you want them to be absolutely perfect. He prefers a much more intimate relationship than that. Get rid of that big chip on your shoulder. It is weighing you down.

I am not the one that follows the teachings of White or am I a member of her church, I have never agreed that she is a prophetess so I could be baptized into the SDA church, You did that, Not me,

So do not tell me that I want to use another human being as my conduit to God, I do not teach any such thing.

Nor does your argument concerning the Hebrews, Jews and the early church really seem to make any sense either, Are saying that they all claimed to be prophets???

Ellen White made specific claims about herself and demanded that her followers acknowledge those claims and to do otherwise would bring divine displeasure down upon your head,

She demanded to be recognized and obeyed as the conduit between her followers and God, So now you say that over the years as the truth comes out that she was no such thing do not blame her because she is innocent??

We should rather blame the people that she decieved into following her?

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[deu58]

Hello Stateri

Another thing to take into consideration is do you know that people actually died following her original health visions??

Have you ever read any of Dr Kellogs writings concerning the results of her original health message?? Do you know how many innocent peopel had their reputations destroyed because they dared to doubt her in public so she would write slanderous testimonies about them??

Have you ever read Alonzo Jones letter to her asking why and how could she do such things and became a victim of her testimonies himself??

This woman is not innocent,

yours in Christ
deu 58

 

[FreeinChrist]

I am unfamiliar with that information about EGW. Are Dr. Kellog's writings online?

 

[statrei]

Hello Statrei


I am not the one that follows the teachings of White or am I a member of her church, I have never agreed that she is a prophetess so I could be baptized into the SDA church, You did that, Not me,

So do not tell me that I want to use another human being as my conduit to God, I do not teach any such thing.

Nor does your argument concerning the Hebrews, Jews and the early church really seem to make any sense either, Are saying that they all claimed to be prophets???

Ellen White made specific claims about herself and demanded that her followers acknowledge those claims and to do otherwise would bring divine displeasure down upon your head,

She demanded to be recognized and obeyed as the conduit between her followers and God, So now you say that over the years as the truth comes out that she was no such thing do not blame her because she is innocent??

We should rather blame the people that she decieved into following her?

yours in Christ
deu 58

Before claiming what I do why not do the honorable thing and ask first? I am not responsible for EGW; only for myself. I follow the Creator. When Paul is wrong I recognize that he is wrong. When the early church was wrong I recognize that it was.

 

[statrei]

Hello Stateri

Another thing to take into consideration is do you know that people actually died following her original health visions??

Have you ever read any of Dr Kellogs writings concerning the results of her original health message?? Do you know how many innocent peopel had their reputations destroyed because they dared to doubt her in public so she would write slanderous testimonies about them??

Have you ever read Alonzo Jones letter to her asking why and how could she do such things and became a victim of her testimonies himself??

This woman is not innocent,

yours in Christ
deu 58

I have not met any adult who is innocent. Lots of corporations make medical claims that have been been shown to be false and caused the deaths of many. What is the relevance of that comment?

 

[Cliff2]

Hello Stateri

Another thing to take into consideration is do you know that people actually died following her original health visions??

Have you ever read any of Dr Kellogs writings concerning the results of her original health message?? Do you know how many innocent peopel had their reputations destroyed because they dared to doubt her in public so she would write slanderous testimonies about them??

Have you ever read Alonzo Jones letter to her asking why and how could she do such things and became a victim of her testimonies himself??

This woman is not innocent,

yours in Christ
deu 58

Did you know that the medical profession was still telling people to smoke until the 1950's. EGW was saying that smoking was a poison well over 120 years ago. Long before the medical profession realized that it was.

 

[Cliff2]

She demanded to be recognized and obeyed as the conduit between her followers and God, So now you say that over the years as the truth comes out that she was no such thing do not blame her because she is innocent??

We should rather blame the people that she decieved into following her?

yours in Christ
deu 58

Why don't you tell the truth.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Did you know that the medical profession was still telling people to smoke until the 1950's. EGW was saying that smoking was a poison well over 120 years ago. Long before the medical profession realized that it was.

She also claimed mastrubation would cause insanity and blindness! Even a broken clock is right twice a day Cliff.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Why don't you tell the truth.

He is telling the truth.

"Drug medication, as it is generally practiced, is a curse. Educate away from drugs. Use them less and less..." Counsels on Health, p. 261 (1890).

That another pretty shocking quote.

 

[statrei]

He is telling the truth.

"Drug medication, as it is generally practiced, is a curse. Educate away from drugs. Use them less and less..." Counsels on Health, p. 261 (1890).

That another pretty shocking quote.

GEt a life, you guys. The woman has been dead for 90 years now. Scientists have always been wrong before they got it right. The early church was wrong, Jonah was wrong, Paul was wrong. Being wrong is a human trait and sometimes we don't live long enough to get it right.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

GEt a life, you guys. The woman has been dead for 90 years now. Scientists have always been wrong before they got it right. The early church was wrong, Jonah was wrong, Paul was wrong. Being wrong is a human trait and sometimes we don't live long enough to get it right.

Science is based on theory. Paul wasn't wrong on a single thing written in scripture. The problem is that EGW is held up a prophet and scripture clearly tells us that prophets are never wrong. If the Holy Spirit moves through someone then they are never wrong when they speak with the Holy Spirit. A claim that some of her stuff was the Holy Spirit and some was not is the only explanation and that in and of itself disqualifies her from being a prophet.

 

[statrei]

Science is based on theory. Paul wasn't wrong on a single thing written in scripture. The problem is that EGW is held up a prophet and scripture clearly tells us that prophets are never wrong. If the Holy Spirit moves through someone then they are never wrong when they speak with the Holy Spirit. A claim that some of her stuff was the Holy Spirit and some was not is the only explanation and that in and of itself disqualifies her from being a prophet.

She never claimed to be a prophet, but that is beside the point. You are free to assert that Paul made no mistakes. You are free to be wrong.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

She never claimed to be a prophet, but that is beside the point. You are free to assert that Paul made no mistakes. You are free to be wrong.

Are you saying scripture is fallible?

She never claimed to be a prophet? I will have to look that up. She might not have claimed it but the SDA church does in the official doctrinal statement:

18. The Gift of Prophecy:
One of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is prophecy. This gift is an identifying mark of the remnant church and was manifested in the ministry of Ellen. G. White . As the Lord's messenger, her writings are a continuing and authoritative source of truth which provide for the church comfort, guidance, instruction, and correction. They also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. (Joel 2:28, 29; Acts 2:14-21; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 12:17; 19:10.)

So what if she never claimed it. But wait.

"There is one straight chain of truth without one heretical sentence in that which I have written." — Ellen G. White, Letter 329A, 1905.

Everything she wrote was true according to her.

All the lessons which God has caused to be placed on record in His word are for our warning and instruction. They are given to save us from deception. Their neglect will result in ruin to ourselves. Whatever contradicts God's word, we may be sure proceeds from Satan. Patriarchs and Prophets, page 55, paragraph 2.

"Yet, now when I send you a testimony of warning and reproof, many of you declare it to be merely the opinion of Sister White. You thereby insulted the Spirit of God." Testimonies 5, p. 64.

So by disproving her writings we are insulting God?

"In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision--the precious rays of light shining from the throne." Testimonies 5 p. 67.

So nothing she wrote was her own ideas, this is her claim not mine. Sure sounds like she is claiming infallibility.

"If you lessen the confidence of God’s people in the testimonies He has sent them, you are rebelling against God as were Korah, Dathan, and Abriam." Testimonies 5 p. 66.

We are not only insulting God but rebelling against him by arguing against EGW. But you are right so far no claim of being a prophet. Just claims of speaking for God. Oh those technicalities...

"The Testimonies are of the Spirit of God, or of the devil. In arraying yourself against the servants of God you are doing a work either for God or for the devil." Testimonies 4 p. 230.

By her own words...We can prove that she was wrong on MANY things, in fact wrong over and over. So by her own words where did her writing come from (the parts that weren't stolen from other people at least.)

 

[statrei]

flesh99, you would have us believe that if I a liar if I publish that which I believe to be true and 10 years later it is shown to be false. What kind of logic is that? As to Scriture being fallible or infallible, that is a non-question. Fallibility is not a characteristic of inanimate objects. We do know that all the writers of the Bible were fallible. And if you are prepared to say that men are infallible when they WRITE for God what will you say for men today who SPEAK for God?

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

flesh99, you would have us believe that if I a liar if I publish that which I believe to be true and 10 years later it is shown to be false. What kind of logic is that? As to Scriture being fallible or infallible, that is a non-question. Fallibility is not a characteristic of inanimate objects. We do know that all the writers of the Bible were fallible. And if you are prepared to say that men are infallible when they WRITE for God what will you say for men today who SPEAK for God?

Your claim that Paul was fallible is a true claim. He was a man like the rest of us. BUT we only have his writings in scripture which are not fallible. We do not have anything by him that would be considred part of his fallible nature. Are you saying that God allowed untruth to be written and canonized in scripture?

Ellen White did not claim that what she wrote was just true, there is a differenc in that and what she claimed. She claimed to have written directly from God at which point she is either 100% or a liar. I do not believe that any man today speaks for God all of the time nor do I know of any who claim to do so. I judge everything by scripture and EGW falls short over and over and over. He claim to have written only what was handed to her by God Himself and not from her own opinion is her own and not mine. I did not make the claim. She obviously lied about that because God does not hand people things that are not true. If she was lying about that then she is pretty much automatically not a prophet.

You are putting up a smoke screen. I never not posted anything untrue. By her own words her writings are either of God or of satan. Her writings contradict scripture in multiple places, she was wrong on many, many, health issues, she didn't even follow her own supposed words from God. By her own standard that she penned where does that place her work?

 

[statrei]

Your claim that Paul was fallible is a true claim. He was a man like the rest of us. BUT we only have his writings in scripture which are not fallible. We do not have anything by him that would be considred part of his fallible nature. Are you saying that God allowed untruth to be written and canonized in scripture?

Who says that the Creator who promised to speak directly to our hearts wanted a book to be written? Men decided to write. Nothing wrong with that. We would still get His direction with or without a written record. The written record only helps us understand how He dealt with men in the past.

 

[FreeinChrist]

flesh99, you would have us believe that if I a liar if I publish that which I believe to be true and 10 years later it is shown to be false. What kind of logic is that?

Are you claiming to be speaking prophetically?
Are you a prophet?

 

[statrei]

Are you claiming to be speaking prophetically?
Are you a prophet?

<Looks around> Talking to me? I believe firmly in Heb. 1:1-2. I only speak and leave it to others to test it as required by the Lord. Test EVERY spirit.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

Who says that the Creator who promised to speak directly to our hearts wanted a book to be written? Men decided to write. Nothing wrong with that. We would still get His direction with or without a written record. The written record only helps us understand how He dealt with men in the past.

You are avoiding the EGW issue. I have posted her words on her own writing. We can judge her writing by scripture and show it is full of fallacy and falsehood. By her own standards, from her own words, how then should we judge her writing?