Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
I have provided the post-response trail in this thread ... let the reader decide what they see ...
non-SDAs are first given a set of Bible studies and asked if they agree with the doctrines of the church. We don't just baptize them on day 1.
If someone starts to question their beliefs after joining we don't go back and "audit them". At some point when they have changed their mind enough so that some other denomination fits their new set of beliefs better than this one - they leave.
======================
But that is VERY DIFFERENT from paying them to teach false doctrine. We are all about NOT doing that.
Everyone is free to reject whatever they wish and join any group that better fits their views. I have no way to audit what someone claims is their history. I leave it to them . But I myself have been a member of a number of SDA congregations over the years and I have seen all sorts of folks in the church.
In fact Ellen White said not to make that a barrier to becoming an SDA
and she never said a person is lost if they do not understand the Bible teaching on the gift of prophecy.
Depends on whether that person ever had the understanding of what a true prophet is - and had come to the conviction that Ellen White was one.
Many people become convicted and fully accept some Bible teaching - only to later reject it. I suspect you and I both know this.
Perhaps. Maybe it wasn’t about EGW but how presented. Not having a good attitude regardless of the subject can be challenging.Yes, I saw a great many too. So I had no trouble at all believing that some were quite hostile to Adventist Heretic due to him no longer accepting Ellen White.
If they take the time to actually read post 129 they may be informed in areas that you might find surprising.
Perhaps. Maybe it wasn’t about EGW but how presented. Not having a good attitude regardless of the subject can be challenging.
It’s pointless to continue to debate this as the people are not here to present their side of things and there are way more important topics to discuss like Jesus is Coming soon!
Happy Sabbath all!
Is that a yes? You can reject any part(s) of the 28 fundamental beliefs and still be considered fully SDA? And all roles and offices in the church would still be open to you?non-SDAs are first given a set of Bible studies and asked if they agree with the doctrines of the church. We don't just baptize them on day 1.
If someone starts to question their beliefs after joining we don't go back and "audit them". At some point when they have changed their mind enough so that some other denomination fits their new set of beliefs better than this one - they leave.
======================
But that is VERY DIFFERENT from paying them to teach false doctrine. We are all about NOT doing that.
Meaning that you would not be welcome to continue as a pastor in that conference?Depends on the conference. Even in a conservative conference when I indicated to the conference leadership I could not in good conscience continue in the Adventist ministry due to my disagreement with the sanctuary teaching, one of the conference leadership suggested I could go to a conference where they wouldn't care about such.
Ah, in your experience, then, there are people who remain SDA while disagreeing with some parts of the doctrine.I did not want to remain a minister in a church when I could not support the doctrine, so I left. But there are quite a few that I knew who did not accept all of the fundamentals, but did not leave.
I agree, that waiting to speak out until after one's retirement is not living out ones convictions.They urged me to say and just not speak about it. And there is the continuing trend of people who suddenly speak out after retirement, which seems to me to be the wrong way to do things.
non-SDAs are first given a set of Bible studies and asked if they agree with the doctrines of the church. We don't just baptize them on day 1.
If someone starts to question their beliefs after joining we don't go back and "audit them". At some point when they have changed their mind enough so that some other denomination fits their new set of beliefs better than this one - they leave.
======================
Wouy saying that White didn't have the gift of prophecy be considered false doctrine?But that is VERY DIFFERENT from paying them to teach false doctrine. We are all about NOT doing that.
Question:
Would Tall73's readers fully expect to find these historic statements ??
1. Do not use the Testimonies as proof for unbelievers (Testimonies, vol. 1, pp. 119, 120; vol. 5, p. 669).
2. Do not use them as a test of fellowship (Testimonies, vol. 1, pp. 327-329).
3. Do not use the visions as a rule to measure all (Testimonies, vol. 1, pp. 382, 383).
4. Do not use the Testimonies as an iron rule or club (Testimonies, vol. 1, p. 369).
Explains a lotI doubt that the readers would know what to expect from Ellen White.
Perhaps. Maybe it wasn’t about EGW but how presented. Not having a good attitude regardless of the subject can be challenging.
It’s pointless to continue to debate this as the people are not here to present their side of things...
(This isn't addressed to you directly, SB, but feel free to respond of course...and there are way more important topics to discuss like Jesus is Coming soon!
Happy Sabbath all!
Meaning that you would not be welcome to continue as a pastor in that conference?
Ah, in your experience, then, there are people who remain SDA while disagreeing with some parts of the doctrine.
I agree, that waiting to speak out until after one's retirement is not living out ones convictions.
(This isn't addressed to you directly, SB, but feel free to respond of course)
That reminds me about White's prophecies about Jesus coming soon. White was saying that Jesus was coming soon back in the mid 1800s. As in, people alive then would still be alive when Jesus returned. So I've heard. But many see that as a conditional prophecy.
The idea today that Jesus is coming soon, is that also conditional? Is it possible the conditions won't be met for another hundred years? Or another thousand years?
Thoughts, anyone?
No, EGW never predicted the Seoncd Coming of Jesus, she was 17 years old, a Methodist in 1844 and the SDA church had not even formed until 20 years later. It was a Baptist Minster who predicted this based on a misunderstanding of prophecy.(This isn't addressed to you directly, SB, but feel free to respond of course)
That reminds me about White's prophecies about Jesus coming soon. White was saying that Jesus was coming soon back in the mid 1800s. As in, people alive then would still be alive when Jesus returned. So I've heard. But many see that as a conditional prophecy.
The idea today that Jesus is coming soon, is that also conditional? Is it possible the conditions won't be met for another hundred years? Or another thousand years?
Thoughts, anyone?
No, EGW never predicted the Seoncd Coming of Jesus, she was 17 years old, a Methodist in 1844 and the SDA church had not even formed until 20 years later. It was a Baptist Minster who predicted this based on a misunderstanding of prophecy.
Regardless, Jesus is Coming Soon according to His Word.
One can spend countless hours posting thread after thread about anti-EGW and keep that their focus instead of Christ
, I do find it odd those who claim SDA’s spend more time on EGW are actually the ones constantly bringing her up over any teachings of scripture.
I doubt that the readers would know what to expect from Ellen White. Apparently Sabbathblessings didn't expect them, because she didn't know what the testimonies referred to.
But I would expect you to cite the source of your list as this is not your own wording, and the forum rules include copyright provisions.
I think they would suspect this one! She wanted them to use the Bible which people would often accept as evidence, rather than putting her writings at the forefront.
And they probably picked up on the idea that Adventists talk about Ellen White pretty freely among themselves, but are cautious what they say about her with outsiders, because it would likely draw fire.
This one some would be familiar with because I quoted it prior to you referencing it.
They may or may not be familiar with this one, but if they have followed our prior debates they would have likely seen you point out something similar.
And they would have likely seen me point out she did not actually follow it, but said to reject Scriptures if they went against distinctive Adventist doctrines:
First Selected Messages, pg 161
We are not to receive the words of those who come with a message that contradicts the special points of our faith. They gather together a mass of Scripture, and pile it as proof around their asserted theories. This has been done over and over again during the past fifty years.
If someone finds something in the scriptures against one of White's teachings, they must have the wrong application (today we might say interpretation). This would make it impossible in practice to find anything in Scripture that would go against her teachings.And while the Scriptures are God's word, and are to be respected, the application of them, if such application moves one pillar from the foundation that God has sustained these fifty years, is a great mistake. He who makes such an application knows not the wonderful demonstration of the Holy Spirit that gave power and force to the past messages that have come to the people of God.
----
Ellen White in practice would not accept Bible evidence against Adventist distinctives, and urged others not to, based on experience.
Yes.
Yes, not impossible for someone to find, as they did again and again over 50 years to that point. But they should not be entertained--don't consider it--because our experience shows otherwise.I found this next part especially interesting:
If someone finds something in the scriptures against one of White's teachings, they must have the wrong application (today we might say interpretation). This would make it impossible in practice to find anything in Scripture that would go against her teachings.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?