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Scripture Question - Genesis 22

Discussion in 'The Junk Drawer' started by KaieraAi, Sep 19, 2017.

  1. KaieraAi

    KaieraAi New Member

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    So, I'm doing a devotional bible study, and I'm reading the passage about how God tells Abraham to sacrifice his son Issac, and then stops him at the last moment.

    I understand the significance to Abraham. He needed to understand his priorities, that even the gifts God gave him could not come before God. He also needed to know and trust that God would still provide, that God would either intervene or bring the boy back. He needed to not fear, even in a moment of likely extreme fear and perceived loss. I get all of that.

    But how do you think Issac felt? Do you think he understood? Abraham did not tell him what would be done. When the boy asked where the animal to be sacrificed was, he told him that the lord would provide. And when that didn't happen, he was bound, and the knife was raised to kill him before God intervened. Do you think he understood? Do you think this act impacted him in any way, or was to work in his heart too? I'd like a little more insight on how you think God works in the people who seem to be 'used' in the old testament. Like, the nations overthrown when the Israelites took the Holy Land back, or the places God destroyed, like Sodom and Gomorrah. God is of universal love, but there are people who seem to be hurt or destroyed when God shows his love to another group sometimes. Why is this, or how is God working in the people who seem to be getting the short end of the stick?
     
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  2. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    I am finding it hard to understand the first part of your post..

    Please give me an example of a Gift that God gave Abraham that could not come before God.. You said::

    """""He needed to understand his priorities, that even the gifts God gave him could not come before God.""""

    How can a gift present itself before God ?
    Where the gifts that God gave Abraham evil ?
     
  3. Instrument150

    Instrument150 Active Member

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    I think that the word "seem" in your question is an answer to it.

    The grievances of these people are being viewed from a worldly perspective, "pain, suffering, strife, confusion, death"

    But it is God that gives life, and it is God that takes life. If you judge reality as a sinful one, you have accidentally gone against the commandment of Jesus, "Judge not lest ye be judged." Because reality is created of God, and therefore nothing that happens in it can be against his ultimate Glory. We have to accept that God does nothing unjust, and consider that nothing "seems" like anything to The Lord. What is simply is.
     
  4. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    This reminds me of one of the most heart-rending stories I've ever heard. A young boy was deathly sick and needed a blood transfusion to save his life. His older brother was the only donor available. His parent told him that his little brother needed his blood in order to be saved. The boy didn't hesitate and willingly accepted the sacrifice asked of him. The great love he showed was only realized later when it was discovered that he believed that all of his blood would be given to his brother, and that he would die.
     
  5. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Handmaid of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    I've asked myself a similar question over the years.

    But think of this. Abraham was an old, old man at this time. Isaac was a youth, and undoubtedly faster and almost certainly stronger than his father. He asked about the lamb - he wasn't stupid. And he accepted his father's answer, and allowed himself to be bound and prepared to be sacrificed. Abraham didn't have to hit him over the head to stun him or anything.

    I think Isaac must have accepted and cooperated to some degree. It is impossible to guess how much he understood, since Abraham himself didn't know the full outcome. But both of them trusted God, regardless.
     
  6. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

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    This is based on a cursory reading, not deep study, of the subject, but I'll give my thoughts.
    Isaac always struck me as the "middle generation", the relatively quiet one between the swashbuckling lives of Abraham and both Jacob and Esau. He, of course, was mightily blessed from Day One, and no doubt his parents constantly told him how special he was, both to them and to God. But this brought persecution from older brother Ishmael, eventually leading to family division. So from an early age he had conflict and pain, as well as faith.

    Because Isaac was brought up in strong faith, and possibly knew of the explicit promise that he would be the heir, I imagine he, though bewildered, probably shared to some degree his father's faith that even if he died God would raise him again (Heb 11.19). Yet it must have marked him to see his father place his loyalty to God first, even before Isaac's life.

    As for some of the others who seem to have drawn history's short stick, particularly the Canaanites who were more or less obliterated in the conquest of the land, bear in mind that God delayed the giving of the Promised Land by 400 years, until "the error of the Amorites is complete". Four centuries of progressive enslavement and bloody persecution, so that the people who would be displaced would have fully deserved their fate, and the consciences of the Hebrews could be clean.

    Even then, I have no doubts there were some who were innocent. Jesus Himself said that Sodom and Gomorrah will fare better than Capernaum in the final judgment, because they were the more conducive to repenting. But a degree of such unfortunate casualties are an inherent part of dealing with people on the national or ethnos level, which is what God was doing back then. He was working with what He had.

    Perhaps the ultimate person who had to take a loss was Ishmael, who ended up sent away by Abraham. But even then God took care of the boy and blessed him, and made a great nation of him, despite the fact that he would be a "wild donkey" of a man. Ishmael joined Isaac in burying Abraham, showing him honor, in what must have been some kind of family reunion. The strife between the two lines continues even today, but it is important to remember that God still loves Ishmael, as well as Isaac, and in Christ has made provision for the permanent reunion of the two brothers, both with full inheritance, along with all the Gentiles.
     
  7. Lulav

    Lulav Older than ZIP Codes Staff Member Administrator CF Staff Trainer Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Abraham was given a promise by God many years before. He told him he would have descendants that rivaled the number of the stars. It was to be through a child he had with his wife Sarah only.

    Since she was past her time in life for bearing children it was hard to believe this could happen but Abraham learned two very important lessons about his God.

    1. With God nothing is impossible
    2. That you must have faith in what He tells you no matter how far fetched it is.

    After being given this 'promised child' Abrahams faith was in what God had promised. He was told this was the child whom all the nations would be blessed through, so he knew that even if he slayed his son, his only son that somehow God would make it happen.

    This was also the beginning of the line that would lead to the promised Messiah.

    This lesson not only taught Abraham a thing or two about faith and the greatness of God but also gave him a look into the future.

    When Abraham spoke these words he was making a prophecy:

    'God will himself provide a lamb'​

    And he did. That Lamb was the Messiah to come.

    And although he was sacrificed, God raised him from the dead.

    We must remember one thing when reading the bible, wise words to follow.

    Seek ye the LORD while he may be found,
    call ye upon him while he is near:

    For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

    For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
     
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  8. Aseyesee

    Aseyesee Well-Known Member

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    To throw it out there ...

    (To me) the real question is what truth of the process does this show in relationship to the son that I am, and how is this cohesive with the whole of scripture in revealing this same one truth.
     
  9. inquiring mind

    inquiring mind associate with those you can learn from Supporter

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    How people have reacted to anything, how they chose to understand it, or how they were influenced by it, are usually best evidenced by how their future is written. At the age of 40 Isaac was still trusting Abraham to pick his wife and he remained faithful to her alone, unlike most other patriarchs. Despite some life-related negatives and age-related problems he lived to be 180 years old (apparently no anxiety-related issues). Other nations may have failed to repent, were being directed or punished, and there again, "God’s will" with the proof in the pudding as they say (more research)... anyway you see where I’m going. You present a very good question and it would take a lot of study to answer your question thoroughly and directly in such an investigative sort-of-way, based on how things turn out for all in question. The other option is faith.
     
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  10. KaieraAi

    KaieraAi New Member

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    It's not that the gifts were bad, but people can be wrapped up, even in good things. God gave Abraham a son, Issac. He was a blessing to his parents because they were very old and beyond the childbearing age. (Also Sarah was infertile to begin with). But even then, even when we are blessed with things, we can't get caught up in them, we can't let them be our favorite thing over worshiping our God. He was asked to sacrifice his son to show that even someone he loved dearly was not more important than his relationship with God, where this also foreshadowed how God would give his only son because nothing is more important to God than a relationship with us. But Just as Jesus cried out when he was on the cross "my God, why have you forsaken me?" do you think Issac felt betrayed by his father? Do you think he understood?

    I didn't consider that, and I think it has a lot of weight. It was a testament of faith for both father and son. Maybe that answers what I just said about Jesus as well, where his death on the cross was a testament of faith between both Father and Son as well. Jesus had to trust God just as much as God knew Jesus would not run away, and would take on the burden of death and sin for all of us.

    Perhaps also here, I'm using a too worldly idea of judgement, and that even when these people have been wiped from the earth, they still have a chance for redemption as they stand before the throne of God... So it is not unfair for people to be destroyed on earth, because even godly people die sudden;y sometimes, and are given the reward of heaven.
     
  11. ~Anastasia~

    ~Anastasia~ † Handmaid of God † Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Christ did after all descend into Hades and preached to the souls there. We actually don't know what happened to them individually, so your idea may not be so worldly after all.
     
  12. Adstar

    Adstar Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what went through the mind of Issac.. The Bible does not say.. I guess he would have been in fear.. But later He understood.. Issac in the end believed in the same God that ordered His sacrifice.. So the incident never caused Issac to lost Faith in God..

    As for Jesus on the cross.. He was quoting scripture when He said that quote

    ""My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me""

    Jesus was giving out a signal to the people in the crowd who knew the Torah to read the passage where that quote was coming from..

    I encourage you to read Matthew 27 where Jesus said it. and then go back into Psalm 22 and read the entire chapter.. Just do it and see..
     
  13. PeaceJoyLove

    PeaceJoyLove Well-Known Member

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    A coming to the end of one's soul to find it (again) in a son, as a son...born (again)
     
  14. PeaceJoyLove

    PeaceJoyLove Well-Known Member

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    A son of the promise who the lamb (slain before the foundation of the world) took his place...
     
  15. Aseyesee

    Aseyesee Well-Known Member

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    There is so much in this ... all those things that led Abraham to this ...

    We must give up what we thought to be the very promise of God, in order to have a greater view of what this promise is as it pertains to us, and our relationship with God.

    When we view scripture, we tend to understand it from the point of view that we can personnely identify with the most, yet God is in the business of revealing himself in us as this first person point of view.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
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  16. PeaceJoyLove

    PeaceJoyLove Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. For the promise is to "know as fully as I have been known"...His Spirit lives within us. Many say it in words, yet perceive/see that as something separate/outside of us. Perceiving a promise that is far off when today is always today...
     
  17. Aseyesee

    Aseyesee Well-Known Member

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    It boils down to the truth God is, bar no thought of one's own soul to this end; which serves only to add to or take away; as Abraham said, God will provide himself a sacrifice.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2017
  18. FreeinChrist

    FreeinChrist CF Advisory team Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

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    The whole thing was a foreshadowing of what God would do Himself for us.

    Issac was the promised son of Abraham, from whom would come the promised nation.
    Jesus is the promised Messiah.

    Abraham was to sacrifice Issac on Mt. Moriah.
    Calvary is on Mt. Moriah.

    Issac carried the wood up the mountain.
    Jesus carried the cross up the mountain (though received help eventually).

    Issac was obedient to his father, letting him bind him up and put him on the alter.
    Jesus was obedient to God the Father, letting Himself be crucified.

    When God stopped Abraham, He said that He would provide the sacrifice. And he did many years later.

    It is also about having faith in God even when He asks so much of us.
     
  19. Neckelehamiah

    Neckelehamiah Witness Supporter

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    I agree wholeheartedly. While their life may be done on earth, after they die they still have the chance to repent. So long as they are not stubborn, life is still an option for them :)
     
  20. Ron Gurley

    Ron Gurley What U See is What U Get!

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    I agree with post #18...The Abraham-Isaac account is fore-shadowing the plan of the TRI-UNE GOD from eternity: the voluntary "substitutionary atonement" of Jesus the God-Man whose Holy blood was shed on a cruel and unjust Cross FOR all sins FOR all men FOR all time.

    In the OT, a blood sacrifice was required once a year (yom kippur) to cover the sins of Israel, Isaac's descendants. SEE: Exodus 20
    Abraham's faith was tested by substituting his beloved miracle son, Isaac for the symbolic animal sacrifice.

    In the NT, Jesus the God-Man fore-knew that He was to be the blood of the NEW COVENANT, a reconciliation between sinless God and sinful Man. Jesus had a unique DUAL NATURE: TRUE GOD ...TRUE MAN.
    His "TRUE MAN" agonized as He neared the end of His ministry.

    Matthew 26
    38 ...“My soul is deeply grieved, to the point of death; ...”

    Mark 14
    35 And He went a little beyond them, and fell to the ground and began to pray
    that if it were possible, the hour (of self sacrifice) might pass Him by.
    36 And He was saying, “Abba! Father! All things are possible for You;
    remove this cup (of death) from Me; yet not what I will, but what You will.”

    Luke 22
    43 Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him.
    44 And being in agony He was praying very fervently;
    and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
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