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I can see now that you are not here to converse with people but to prove that you are right and they are wrong.
"BOY, O' BOY, O' BOY,
This thread has covered quite a spread of ideas, opinions, statements, medical advice, bibical text and thier interpititations, indications of studying bibical history and even bibical language translation! It has even been suggested that what may be wrong for some may be OK for others! WOW!!!
At the risk of offending anyone who has posted here I must say that "there is somthing wrong with this picture"!!
Before addressing the topic at hand let me say that I do not intend to address each thought, belife, interpitation or pratice mentioned nor will I give additional bibical text. Rather I'm going to share some ways that each can evaluate there own position and arrive at thier own conclusions.
Too often, when there seems to be instruction on any topic that is not spelled out step by step, Christians forget the statment given, "study to show thyself approved". To study for ourselves means not only to read the Word but to use a very important God given ability to help us apply the instruction given. It is the ability to use logic. When study of the Word is used with logic, reason, and some current facts, each should be able to draw correct conclusions about any subject not just the topic of this thread.
In understanding the instruction given on this topic, drinking, we first need to use some current facts followed by some bibical "facts". With said facts in hand we can use logic about God's fairness, truthfulness, and the principals that should be used when applying all of the instructions given on any subject or topic. I might also suggest that the further study of bibical history as well as secular history may prove to be of futher help in understang actual practices and langueges as well as the total concepts and meanings of each text given previously.
Current secular facts:
Alcohol impairs brain function. Alcohol impairs our ability to use logic and reason. According to current studies consumption of even a single alcoholic beverage is enough to produce measureable brain impairment. More people are killed on our highways due to alcohol related accidents than all other traffic accidents combined. The number of homicides commited while under the influence are more than double those commited when there is no alcohol involved. The vast majority of all child abuse and spouseal abuse involves alcohol. "No", not one, single addiction can be started without a "first time" action.(ie. taking a first drink) A book could be written about the social, moral, and medical reasons for not using alcoholic beverages of any kind therefore I will stop here.
Bibical and Christian facts and principals:
God gave man a brain. There are two main functions intended for the use of that brain. The first use of our brain, the mind, is to communicate with our creator. ANY impairment of our brain power impairs our ability to comunicate with our Creator.
With our brain man was given the the power of choice. To make "good" choices we need to use logic and reason which is what puts..." man above the animals" and why God gave man dominion over all of His creation. God has never given anything that of itself is addicting to His children. He has never blesed anything that is self addictive. In todays Christian world any addiction is considered a sin. Anything {action} that may produce sinful behavior is not of God but is of Satan. God does not cause or condone sin. Any addictive behavior will produce sin. By studying the true charector and nature of God we, as Christians, can establish that God is fair and does not use different standards for different people. He is truthful. Close study does not find contardiction in all the Bible. What God gives He never takes away. His Word is truth.
The knowledge of the above "facts" and principals, coupled with a complete faith/dependancy in/on God the Father, gave Jesus Christ the ability to live a perfect life while here on earth. His every thought, action, statement or question was based in logic and reason.
So I now ask each poster to this thread as Christians to follow the example of Jesus Christ and draw your own conclusions and answers to the question. IS DRINKING A SIN?"
Respectfuly, Your brother in Christ,
Doc
I'm an ex-law enforcement officer. When I was attending the academy I went thru we had to take several classes. One was on alcohol and it's related impact on society as we became certified to run the breathalyzer. One of the things we did was to let some of us cops go thru an experiment. In this experiment the participants went thru a persuit driving course that we had been thru many times. We ran it without the booze and then ran it after one ( 1 ) ounze of booze. There actually was a measurable difference in just one ounce of consumption. After two it was extremely obvious and then at 4 most of the pillons were knocked down at the course speed.
One last thing I want to add. In this course they told us that there had been many studies done on prisoners in several states prisons. Nearly 90% of all prisoners were there for either alcohol related or drug related incidents that got them convicted. To put in plainly alcohol and drugs cause humans to loose inhibitions for doing wrong things.
God Bless
Jim Larmore
Hi Maco,
You have been presented with clinical facts. Those facts have come from both medical research in the lab as well as clinical trials, and actual field experiments conducted by law enforcement. I might add that those "field trials," conducted by law enforcement, have been conducted all across the country, many of which of which were actually conducted under proffessional medical supervision. Yet you seem to dissagree.
You also attempt to refute both biblical principals as well as some rather direct, pointed, biblical statements concerning the use of fermented beverages, especialy wine.
From all that you have said you cause me to ask myself some very pointed questions. First I must ask myself, why have I spent so much time and effort during my lifetime attempting to learn about the human body? About its physiology, its anatomy, the psychology of the mind and the related relationship between the physical and mental processes and how each affects the other. Why have I had to explain to other faimly members, from small children, to wives and husbands, to family and friends that are octogenarians, why a loved one has been killed in a fatal traffice accident, when the loved one wasn't even the one that had had "just a couple of beers," and other driver was declaired "legaly sober?" It would seem that I have been lying whenever I have warned women against drinking ANYTHING alcoholic during pregnancy due to the danger to the fetus.
It would also seem that I have wasted much time and effort to learn about someone who I had always believed to be perfect. Eventhough he never gave into any temptation or sin are you now telling me that he chose to stand on a very slippery slope? If I choose to follow His example, as you would have me believe, does that mean that even if I don't have the will power to refrain from drinking too much its still OK, I'm still "saved," because after all Jesus did it? When I say that I've wasted time and effort, that includes post graduate studies. Did I missunderstand all of my teachers and professors? Have I been telling others a lie about who this Jesus Christ is? Have I been telling falsehoods about His charector and nature? Does this mean that whatever I personaly feel or think about this, or other biblical principals, that my personal feelings are acceptable? Or is it possible that I've just been giving everyone that I have told about Jesus Christ and His love, the 'old sugar pill,' and false hope?
Now Maco, if you are thinking of replying to this post, may I suggest that you think long and hard before making any reply. To use a variation of a very old saying; I have given you a lot of rope. It would seem to be very wise not to find out how easy it is to hang yourself with it.
Respectfully,
Doc
The very first thing I do in my cases is determine if there is a law that forbides the act I'm investigating. If there is no law against what I'm investigating I go no further. If there is a law against what I'm investigating I will have all my ducks in a row when I present my case. What I see in the Bible regarding wine is that there is no law against moderation but there is a law against drunkenness.thecountrydoc;
Hi John,
I really don't have time nor the desire to debate the obvious. Therefore I'll just ask you a question. You say you have been in law enforcement for 27 years and you have moved up to a senior detective. My qurstion is this; As an investigator, would I be correct in the belief that there have been times when, even after some investigation, you simply didn't have all the necessary requirments for the proseuutor to make the case in court. However, from your proffessional experience, you didn't give up your investigation. Instead you used logic and common sense to keep going till you found the necessary information for the prosicution.
The problem with your above logic is that the Bible plainly gives permission to drink fermented wine, in other words, the Bible says, Thus saith the Lord, "thou shall not be given to much wine" and "Give wine to those who have a heavy heart".So it is with the Bible, God's Word. There may not be "a thus saith the Lord" for every question raised, or a step by step set of instructions for every possible problem we may encounter in life, but there are very logical, practical, commonsense, biblical principals for us to use. The Creator of the universe is a creature of logic. When He created man, He made us in His very image, complete with a brain so that we might understand more about Him and the plan of salvation by using our God given gift of logic.
If I use your logic I would not be married for in the kingdom we will neither marry or be given in marriage for we will be like the angels. The way God call us to live in preperation for the kingdom is rigtheous, for no unrighteous person will inherit the kingdom of God.I beg you not to let Satan decieve you by diversion. Use the logical approach to everything that you do or say. If you plan on going to heaven when Christ returns, wouldn't it be logical to start living, right now here on this earth, as close to the the way that life in the New Earth is described?
Man's logic will never fit into God's plan.If you still do not see the logic in what I have presented in this thread I would be most happy to arrange a debate for you and non-christian medical educators that would make what I've said in this thread sound very sophomoric.
I beg you not to let Satan decieve you by diversion. Use the logical approach to everything that you do or say. If you plan on going to heaven when Christ returns, wouldn't it be logical to start living, right now here on this earth, as close to the the way that life in the New Earth is described?
(Isa 25:6 NIV) On this mountain the LORD Almighty will prepare a feast of rich food for all peoples, a banquet of aged wine-- the best of meats and the finest of wines.
(Isa 25:7 NIV) On this mountain he will destroy the shroud that enfolds all peoples, the sheet that covers all nations;
(Isa 25:8 NIV) he will swallow up death forever. The Sovereign LORD will wipe away the tears from all faces; he will remove the disgrace of his people from all the earth. The LORD has spoken.
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