Scripture: An Imperfect Vessel, A Perfect Author

[Tissue]

Language is inherently distorted, and produces distortions wherever its influence is felt. Rousseau's naive hope to rise above language and behold things as they are is impossible. Such is the basis of postmodern thought; such is the accepted landscape of academic work today. The practical and commonsensical understanding is easily seen in the world around us. Through the Internet, where language is freed from intonations and inflections, misunderstands abound on nearly every post.

Once the individual realizes that the 'backpack' is not actually the thing, but the word we generate to refer to the thing, and does not contain in itself any substance or essence, a proper understanding of Scripture can be obtained.

Scripture is crafted in language, and is thus flawed. Further, as we cannot understand language without interpreting it, and as our mental faculties have been tainted by sin, those interpretations are also fallible. Even insofar as the Holy Spirit inspires us, we summarize and understand such inspirations through language.

Scripture is not divine. Scripture is not God. Scripture is not to be worshipped. Scripture was inspired by God, and is lowlier than the human being, who was directly created by God without the intervention or use of any other fallible being. Jesus is Truth. Scripture points to that Truth, and presents it to us in the best way that we can handle and accept, but it is not that Truth.

The modern Protestant church has dangerous tendencies toward idolatry.

 

[bos231]

How is language flawed or imperfect?

Just because the users are imperfect doesn't mean that it can't be used perfectly by a perfect inspirer.

However, Tissue is right in pointing out that however perfect God may have breathed into the writing process, since then, Scripture has been in the hands of humans. Now, the good Protestant would say here that the Holy Spirit has been with the Scriptures since God breathed on them, such that we can still consider them infalliable today. This is part of Luther's emphasis upon sola scriptura.

In practice, however, most Protestants make a false-god of the Bible and elevate the written word as the only means to God and the only explicator of God. There are two problems with this.

The first is that we cannot derive our traditions and teachings solely from looking at the Bible. This is the problem of interpretation that Tissue pointed out above.

The second is that the written word can only point to the eternal Word, Jesus Christ. The infallible point in Christian life and tradition has never been the written word but the body and blood of Jesus Christ. The center of Christianity is the Eucharist, not the Bible.

 

[Tissue]

Just because the users are imperfect doesn't mean that it can't be used perfectly by a perfect inspirer.

Oh certainly, in the same way that humanity can be used by God to achieve fantastic ends, through which the imperfection of humanity is overwritten by the perfection of God.

The second is that the written word can only point to the eternal Word, Jesus Christ. The infallible point in Christian life and tradition has never been the written word but the body and blood of Jesus Christ. The center of Christianity is the Eucharist, not the Bible.

This is precisely my point.

 

[Chickapee]

Hi Tissue are you saying the Holy Scriptures are not the Word of God ?
I am wondering here
cause the WORD OF GOD IS PERFECT and is Not Bound by anything ..

1Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

the Word of God works within us to change us
and is not to be blasphemed , In my humble opinion
peace in Christ C

 

[Tissue]

I am not making any statement regarding phrases used to refer to Scripture. I have a general mistrust for all capitalized nouns in theological matters, especially if they include prepositional phrases.

God is perfect. The humanization of it, the only way in which we can approach it, is imperfect. Just as no one can truly behold God in all His splendor while on this earth, no one can truly behold the Word of God while on this earth. The best we can do is "see its back", as it were. Scripture is the backside of the Word of God.

 

[Chickapee]

God is perfect. The humanization of it, the only way in which we can approach it, is imperfect. Just as no one can truly behold God in all His splendor while on this earth, no one can truly behold the Word of God while on this earth. The best we can do is "see its back", as it were. Scripture is the backside of the Word of God.

Hi Tissue , I agree God is perfect , none with good sense would make such a mockery and foolish statment .
To me the back side is the old Testament , as it is written , no man shall see the face of God and live

but Jesus promises we will if we keep the requirements , Some have seen Him ,
but not with the natural eyes , but with Spiritual eyes , given by the Lord ,this type of healing the blind [ignorant to God and His ways ]

Mat 5:8 Blessed [are] the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

the new testimony [New Covenant ] is the Face of Christ shining in the Glory of God in our hearts that is How we shall See , to me it is all so Spiritual

and the Holy Word being a very Spiritual Book opened .. Revealed SEEING Jesus Christ

and Paul acknowledges here ...

For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.

2Cr 4:6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness,

hath shined in our hearts, to [give] the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

I believe its a false statment to say none have seen the Lord while in their mortal bodies , Paul had on the road to Damascus , and was struck with blindness

making the sure prophecy of Jesus True , He come to make the blind see
and

that the seeing made blind .. than was Paul humbled and made a

chosen vessel of honor , and must suffer many things for Jesus Christs sake

peace In Jesus ... C

 

[beamishboy]

I believe Scriptures do not give us the full picture. We do not know for example what food Jesus ate. I'm sure he ate steak and kidney pie, fish and chips and all the good old British fare and stayed away from French cuisine but my point is we don't know for sure.

But when it comes to doctrines, the Bible does seem pretty much complete to me. The danger of saying there's more to doctrines than what the Bible tells us is a dangerous thing. I see doctrines in churches that believe in that and what I see too are doctrines that fly in the face of the apostles' teachings.

A clever Protestant is one who agrees the Bible is not complete in EVERYTHING but would be careful of cooking up new doctrines that are not directly supported, approved and verifiable from scriptures. I know the standard argument to this by a particular group is that the doctrine of the Holy Trinity came about by subsequent tradition. I say that's rubbish because all the best scholars are agreed that the doctrine of the Trinity is fully supported by scriptures. Only the name "trinity" was concocted but names can be anything according to our language.

In my discussions with a certain non-Protestant group, I'm amazed that strange and extremely novel doctrines can be accepted by them even though they are clearly repugnant to apostolic teachings.

While we may wish to say that the Bible is not complete, we should always be aware that there can be inherent dangers in trying to accept doctrines and practices that deviate clearly from the Bible and pretend that although the apostles didn't set it down in writing, we should believe it because the church fathers in the 3rd and 4th centuries AD believed in them or because non-canonical writings showed that belief. Even if we discount the likelihood of scribal errors and wilful falsifications of non-canonical texts (presumably to suit their own beliefs), we should remember that we are required to follow apostolic teachings and not the teachings of early church fathers who came about after the apostles.

 

[horatio]

Hi Tissue are you saying the Holy Scriptures are not the Word of God ?
I am wondering here
cause the WORD OF GOD IS PERFECT and is Not Bound by anything ..

For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

the Word of God works within us to change us
and is not to be blasphemed , In my humble opinion
peace in Christ C

Firstly, you can't use the bible to prove the bible is perfect.

Secondly, Most of the NT wasn't written when Th was written so how can Paul be talking about things that haven't been written yet?

 

[Chickapee]

Firstly, you can't use the bible to prove the bible is perfect.

Secondly, Most of the NT wasn't written when Th was written so how can Paul be talking about things that haven't been written yet?

Hi horatio ,
well bro , there is where we differ ,

Paul had read the OT as well as had the Holy Spirit within Him , it bore witness to His conscience and Paul was a chosen vessel that made known [revealed ] many mysteries that had been ''hidden '' for ages ,

I am convinced the many that think , in a certain mind set ,

Do not Give God the Glory or credit He so richly deserves

GODS Spirit and Truth has been working all along for ages and ages


Even Jesus the faithful and true witness

told us this fact .

That the Father seeks such to worship Him in the same manner in Spirit &Truth

I Believe the Bible is awesome when the seals are opened ,

and when its closed its a mystery still [ for many years it was as a foreign language none could not learn , it was too hard ]
and its Jesus that opens the scriptures to help us understand them , as He did/does His disciples [students]
its not by the will of man or his might ,

but By Gods Spirit that salvation comes and the Bible is
a Holy roadmap that Leads the Way to Truth & Life

Can folks be saved without the bible ?

Sure !.

Faith is a BIG thing with God

you can never please Him without it , But its like Abrahams journey ,

He was led by the Spirit and did not know where he was going [he had no bible either ] , but by FAITH in God and GODS Promise to him

had salvation come to all his house .. now Paul gives us a warning ,

that with all God has given us NOW , there is no more excuse left for this time /age
Man tries to reason away What God has established , made Sure and declared
openly and I do fear for them types , not only do they doubt GOD themselves , they cause other to stumble as well ,

What will become of them ?

when there is nothing left but their idol/vain ''empty'' words to give account before Him /The Lord ?

the blindness /ignorance was Done by God for a time , but the Truth Is we are to repent and Come to Jesus Christ / Light of the world
and expose our deeds/works and be corrected those who dont come to the Light ?
Jhn 3:19 And this is the condemnation/judging , that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

Jhn 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved/ convict

please read all of acts 17 , here is the main point to my post

Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

To me the problem is folks are to content with what they have / certain knowledge and think they got it all , so they are not willing to let go of it , as if they have a great thing like the last /chuch # 7 in rev 3 the Laodicean church


They think but do not realize their own nakedness or poor condition
They are fooling themselves / their own hearts ignorant /darkened and Why was this delusion ?


They were not Willing to hear what the Spirit was saying ?
I never want to think i got it all figured out , God knows I dont ,
and makes me a liar , I want to be healed and hear the Spirit always
and more than hear ,I want to Do Gods will through Jesus Christ

making'' all things ''possible in Him ... keeping the faith and Loving the Truth / the Lord IN ALL HIS Glorious ways !
peace in Christ C