Scripturally Based or Scripturally Sound

[Tube Socks Dude]

While surfing on CF reading a theologial debate I ran across the argument that just because something may be scripturally based doesn't mean it's scripturally sound. It struck me as yet another technique to get around the glaring problems associated with biblical literalism, inerrancy and sola scriptura. So-called "revealed religion" must have a way to validate propositional truths. Ultimately, sound docrine is determined by whichever external religious authority proclaims something enough times and with enough solemnity that others begin to believe it. Either that or the one's with the power of the state behind them get to legislate their theology. Why then even bother debating fellow christians using the bible when everybody knows that being scripturally based is not enough? Many people who claim they don't follow the vanities of men actually needed a preacher or pope to decide for them what is scripturally sound.

 

[JoshButler]

An external authority?

You mean, like God?

 

[TheManeki]

I think more theological problems might be settled if the purveyors of theological theories first bothered to perform a reality check. Just sayin'.

 

[Catherineanne]

Many people who claim they don't follow the vanities of men actually needed a preacher or pope to decide for them what is scripturally sound.

I think we all need a spiritual advisor to help us sort out the wheat from the chaff and to ensure that we do not wander too far into dangerous areas.

I do not build my own faith on the Bible, because the Bible does not tell us to do that. It tells us to build on Christ, who is the Rock. So whether something is or is not scripturally sound or whatever is of no interest to me. What matters is whether it is compatible with Christ's command to love one another as he loves us.

 

[Tube Socks Dude]

An external authority? You mean, like God?

I perceived through spirtual inuition that God existed before the self-appointed representatives of Deity fooled me into stuffing Divinity into the bible box. I no longer treat the gamma and graphe of a book as if they are equal to logos, rhema and sophia. Preachers are just guessing what God is putting into their minds just like all the rest of us. There is indeed truth contained in our impressions and progressive inner revelations from on High. However, the institutional leaders of male patriarchy bind everyone else in ropes of authority by having us unquestioningly believe their invisible god-sent mental signals are the totality of absolute truth, while convincing the rest of us we can't be trusted to properly decipher what the mind of God is saying when we hear it for ourselves. Whenever we don't get the same message or revelation as the patriarchs, we are then expected to override our own will and obediently "self-validate" the truth of the preacher's interpretation as being correct. They get away with it because of the illusion that a human representation of God's authority in the form of preacher or priest carries the same weight and authority as that of God. The bible is said to be an authority, but it does not have a mouth to talk and interpret itself. Some man has to do it.

 

[Tube Socks Dude]

I think we all need a spiritual advisor to help us sort out the wheat from the chaff and to ensure that we do not wander too far into dangerous areas.

A spiritual advisor, mentor or director is great. I view such people as helping the individual develop techniques for personal spiritual growth as well as recognizing universal truths, principals, patterns and qualities that lead to light and life. They are guides and pointers to seekers of truth, without pretending to the the only earthly source of truth in absolute form. They lead by example and use persuasion with wisdom. That is different from men who use force, fear, threat and coersion.

 

[JoshButler]

I perceived through spirtual inuition that God existed before the self-appointed representatives of Deity fooled me into stuffing Divinity into the bible box. I no longer treat the gamma and graphe of a book as if they are equal to logos, rhema and sophia. Preachers are just guessing what God is putting into their minds just like all the rest of us. There is indeed truth contained in our impressions and progressive inner revelations from on High. However, the institutional leaders of male patriarchy bind everyone else in ropes of authority by having us unquestioningly believe their invisible god-sent mental signals are the totality of absolute truth, while convincing the rest of us we can't be trusted to properly decipher what the mind of God is saying when we hear it for ourselves. Whenever we don't get the same message or revelation as the patriarchs, we are then expected to override our own will and obediently "self-validate" the truth of the preacher's interpretation as being correct. They get away with it because of the illusion that a human representation of God's authority in the form of preacher or priest carries the same weight and authority as that of God. The bible is said to be an authority, but it does not have a mouth to talk and interpret itself. Some man has to do it.

Yeah, right. You could have summed it up by saying you aren't Christian and don't know God. And you think I'm not serious in saying that.

 

[IndomitableAmy]

While surfing on CF reading a theologial debate I ran across the argument that just because something may be scripturally based doesn't mean it's scripturally sound. It struck me as yet another technique to get around the glaring problems associated with biblical literalism, inerrancy and sola scriptura. So-called "revealed religion" must have a way to validate propositional truths. Ultimately, sound docrine is determined by whichever external religious authority proclaims something enough times and with enough solemnity that others begin to believe it. Either that or the one's with the power of the state behind them get to legislate their theology. Why then even bother debating fellow christians using the bible when everybody knows that being scripturally based is not enough? Many people who claim they don't follow the vanities of men actually needed a preacher or pope to decide for them what is scripturally sound.

Yeah.. goes something like, "What I understand is this, and here's my biblical evidence." "Well here's my evidence and yours isn't good enough for me, so there!"

Recently seen something of this and gotten involved a little on the side.. Is it also common for those types to use a lot of religious jargon? I mean, I seriously had little idea what this person was talking about and no explanation was forthcoming, not even when I asked.. So.. what you say isn't good enough for me and I'm not going to explain my terms? Is this common?

 

[Tube Socks Dude]

Yeah, right. You could have summed it up by saying you aren't Christian and don't know God. And you think I'm not serious in saying that.

Josh, take heed. In the distant future, if there should come a day that you have a crisis in your life or a great loss or something shakes the foundation of your faith to its core; and the preachers can't fix it, and the scriptures don't offer any comfort, prayer doesn't work and you feel like God has abandoned you.....

You can then begin to recognize there is a God that is greater, wider, higher, deeper, more glorious, more compassionate and loving than anything you've been told about in the world of narrow, rigid, authoritarian religion. In that day, simply stop and realize that God was always with you, in you, outside of you, permeating all things. It is the foundation of all that is including your very being. It doesn't abandon you when you need it most. It does not cast you from its presence for bad behavior. It does not threaten you with retribution. In that day, you won't have to struggle to find faith in doctrines, preachers, scripture verses or your own human will-power. You can simply "be" in God and you will find your ground in time of turmoil. It will be the Reality behind reality, the God behind god. You may not realize it now, but that's some of the best advice you will ever get. I only wish somebody had told me sooner.

TSD

 

[IndomitableAmy]

Josh, take heed. In the distant future, if there should come a day that you have a crisis in your life or a great loss or something shakes the foundation of your faith to its core; and the preachers can't fix it, and the scriptures don't offer any comfort, prayer doesn't work and you feel like God has abandoned you.....

You can then begin to recognize there is a God that is greater, wider, higher, deeper, more glorious, more compassionate and loving than anything you've been told about in the world of narrow, rigid, authoritarian religion. In that day, simply stop and realize that God was always with you, in you, outside of you, permeating all things. It is the foundation of all that is including your very being. It doesn't abandon you when you need it most. It does not cast you from its presence for bad behavior. It does not threaten you with retribution. In that day, you won't have to struggle to find faith in doctrines, preachers, scripture verses or your own human will-power. You can simply "be" in God and you will find your ground in time of turmoil. It will be the reality behind reality, the God behind god. You may not realize it now, but that's the best advice you will ever get. I only wish somebody had told me sooner.

TSD

Amen.

Sigh. Of course, after that.. what you think you knew before, the things you had thought were so important.. seem so small, so petty. Or so it was with me.

 

[CaDan]

Yeah, right. You could have summed it up by saying you aren't Christian and don't know God. And you think I'm not serious in saying that.

. <----- The point








\|/
oo
L <----- Your head
-

 

[Im_A]

Josh, take heed. In the distant future, if there should come a day that you have a crisis in your life or a great loss or something shakes the foundation of your faith to its core; and the preachers can't fix it, and the scriptures don't offer any comfort, prayer doesn't work and you feel like God has abandoned you.....

You can then begin to recognize there is a God that is greater, wider, higher, deeper, more glorious, more compassionate and loving than anything you've been told about in the world of narrow, rigid, authoritarian religion. In that day, simply stop and realize that God was always with you, in you, outside of you, permeating all things. It is the foundation of all that is including your very being. It doesn't abandon you when you need it most. It does not cast you from its presence for bad behavior. It does not threaten you with retribution. In that day, you won't have to struggle to find faith in doctrines, preachers, scripture verses or your own human will-power. You can simply "be" in God and you will find your ground in time of turmoil. It will be the Reality behind reality, the God behind god. You may not realize it now, but that's some of the best advice you will ever get. I only wish somebody had told me sooner.

TSD

great post bro.! keep it up man!

and might i add, i wish someone would have told me sooner as well.

 

[LovebirdsFlying]

. <----- The point








\|/
oo
L <----- Your head
-

Remembering that one!

To answer the OP, the movie "The Seventh Sign" with Demi Moore was Scripturally based, in that it got its storyline from the loose interpretation of some verses in Revelation. But it was not Scripturally sound, in that it did not line up with the entire message of God's written word. At least that's how I interpret the difference.

EDIT to add something I just cannot refrain from saying; I'm sorry.

Those who come in here with the intention of trying to convince us we're wrong to be liberal Christians, do their cause no favors by using hateful sarcasm as a weapon. I've heard too many people respond to it with, "If that's what a Christian is like, I don't want to be one."

Speak the truth in love, as it says to do in Ephesians 4:16.

 

[geekgirlkelli]

Yeah, right. You could have summed it up by saying you aren't Christian and don't know God. And you think I'm not serious in saying that.

Honestly I don't really care how serious you are. Is your being "serious" supposed to scare me into believing as you do? Is that how God works, leading the faithful by intimidation and fear? :kelli rolls her eyes wildly:

 

[StormyOne]

I perceived through spirtual inuition that God existed before the self-appointed representatives of Deity fooled me into stuffing Divinity into the bible box. I no longer treat the gamma and graphe of a book as if they are equal to logos, rhema and sophia. Preachers are just guessing what God is putting into their minds just like all the rest of us. There is indeed truth contained in our impressions and progressive inner revelations from on High. However, the institutional leaders of male patriarchy bind everyone else in ropes of authority by having us unquestioningly believe their invisible god-sent mental signals are the totality of absolute truth, while convincing the rest of us we can't be trusted to properly decipher what the mind of God is saying when we hear it for ourselves. Whenever we don't get the same message or revelation as the patriarchs, we are then expected to override our own will and obediently "self-validate" the truth of the preacher's interpretation as being correct. They get away with it because of the illusion that a human representation of God's authority in the form of preacher or priest carries the same weight and authority as that of God. The bible is said to be an authority, but it does not have a mouth to talk and interpret itself. Some man has to do it.

happen to be exploring this section today and just wanted to say this comment is excellent.... I may have to save it for future use...... definitely on point....

 

[Catherineanne]

A spiritual advisor, mentor or director is great. I view such people as helping the individual develop techniques for personal spiritual growth as well as recognizing universal truths, principals, patterns and qualities that lead to light and life. They are guides and pointers to seekers of truth, without pretending to the the only earthly source of truth in absolute form. They lead by example and use persuasion with wisdom. That is different from men who use force, fear, threat and coersion.

Agreed. Anyone who uses force etc is not of God, but represents the other side.

 

[Catherineanne]

Yeah right. You could have summed it up by saying you aren't a Christian and don't know God.

Considering you have not appeared on this forum in the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory, to a trumpet fanfare, I think we are safe in concluding that you are not qualified to judge who is, and who is not, a Christian.

 

[JoshButler]

Josh, take heed. In the distant future, if there should come a day that you have a crisis in your life or a great loss or something shakes the foundation of your faith to its core; and the preachers can't fix it, and the scriptures don't offer any comfort, prayer doesn't work and you feel like God has abandoned you.....

You can then begin to recognize there is a God that is greater, wider, higher, deeper, more glorious, more compassionate and loving than anything you've been told about in the world of narrow, rigid, authoritarian religion. In that day, simply stop and realize that God was always with you, in you, outside of you, permeating all things. It is the foundation of all that is including your very being. It doesn't abandon you when you need it most. It does not cast you from its presence for bad behavior. It does not threaten you with retribution. In that day, you won't have to struggle to find faith in doctrines, preachers, scripture verses or your own human will-power. You can simply "be" in God and you will find your ground in time of turmoil. It will be the Reality behind reality, the God behind god. You may not realize it now, but that's some of the best advice you will ever get. I only wish somebody had told me sooner.

TSD

Right.

Dude, pass the doobie. I'll throw it in the trash for you.

Frankly, I don't think you've been in a real crisis in your life.

 

[JoshButler]

Agreed. Anyone who uses force etc is not of God, but represents the other side.

True strength comes from the Lord.

 

[Ekcb]

Except for JoshButler, I agree wholeheartedly with everyone's posts. Sorry Josh, but you don't make a persuasive arguement when you use bullying, sarcasm, and "my way is the only way and if you don't believe it you're going to hell" tactics. As another poster eluded to, Christians don't help themselves when they use such tactics when dealing with other faith believers or non-believers. You are entitled to your opinions and I respect that, the problem is, you need to accept others' opinions as well. And, may I suggest, if you truly feel the way you do, instead of using the aforementioned tactics, why not just pray for them instead of ridiculing them and making them feel bad and possibly even resent the Christian faith because of it? I'm sorry if this is off topic, but I strongly feel this needed to be said.