Scriptural Baptism

Hoping2 said:

You should have done the search on Google to research "present-historical tense".
If one presents a prior occurrence, he can use the present tense perspective to describe his prior feelings and reactions while they were happening.

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I am ALWAYS wary when anybody under any circumstance uses the rhetorical statement: 'WHEN THE BIBLE SAYS THIS, IT MEANS THAT.

Hoping2 said:

faith for redemption

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redemption without faith is universalism. Major problem for Baptists.

Ain't Zwinglian said:

I am ALWAYS wary when anybody under any circumstance uses the rhetorical statement: 'WHEN THE BIBLE SAYS THIS, IT MEANS THAT.

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Wariness is good when considering anything new.

Please Google "present-historical tense".

Ain't Zwinglian said:

redemption without faith is universalism. Major problem for Baptists.

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What is anyone redeemed from ?
Sin? The penalty for sin? Servitude to satan? Bondage to the Law?
Since babies have nothing to be redeemed from, their destruction is prevented.

Hoping2 said:

Since babies have nothing to be redeemed from, their destruction is prevented.

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Chapter and verse for sinlessness and guiltnessness please.

Ain't Zwinglian said:

Chapter and verse for sinlessness and guiltnessness please.

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Rom 2:5-9..."5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil,"

Indignation, wrath, tribulation, and anguish, are reserved for those who "doeth evil".

WordSword said:

Hi Brother Waris! It's good to know a Brother like you because you are much into the truth of the Word! Many believers do not read and study the Word much. Though they're still saved they are weak in the faith. The more we study the Word, the stronger our faith becomes; and faith always goes forward and never backward.

God's blessings to your Family!!

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Dear beloved brother in Christ,

Thank you so much for your kind and encouraging words! It truly blessed my heart to read your message. I'm deeply humbled, and I give all the glory to our Lord Jesus Christ, who continues to open His Word to us through the Holy Spirit.

You're absolutely right the more we study the Word, the stronger and more rooted we become in our faith. It’s not just about knowledge, but about deepening our relationship with the Living God. And yes, genuine faith always moves forward pressing on toward the mark (Philippians 3:14), growing in grace and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior (2 Peter 3:18).

I'm thankful to walk this journey alongside faithful brothers like you who hunger for truth. May the Lord continue to bless you richly and use you mightily. Please also extend my love and prayers to your family.

Grace and peace to you in abundance,
Brother Waris

Ain't Zwinglian said:

Chapter and verse please for this definition of baptism.

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Yes! Sure, Dear brother,
Thank you for your question: “Chapter and verse please for this definition of baptism.”
You asked this in response to the statement: “It’s the public celebration of a personal transformation that already happened the moment one believed in Christ.”

Here are the Scriptures:

Acts 10:47-48
“Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

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They were baptized after receiving the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8:36-38
“See, here is water! What hinders me from being baptized?” Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”

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Faith preceded baptism.

Galatians 3:26-27
“For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”

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Baptism is tied to our public identification with Christ, but sonship comes through faith.

Romans 6:3-4
“Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? ... that just as Christ was raised from the dead... even so we also should walk in newness of life.”

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Water baptism pictures the transformation that has already taken place.

Colossians 2:12
“Buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.”

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Raised through faith, not through baptism itself.
Blessings in Christ,
Pastor Waris,
Scripture interprets Scripture

WordSword said:

Amen, the Spirit is the Author of God's Word (2Pe 1:21), and the Teacher of the Word (as you said - 1Co 2:13).


Yes, it's a constant huger only God gives, and only spiritual growth in Christ results by the Spirit of the Father. Since it's no longer a salvation issue, it's now all about growth.

Love You Brother

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My Dear brother, I truly felt that in my spirit.
Yes, that kind of hunger you described is something only God can satisfy, and how beautiful it is to see you recognizing that true growth comes by the Holy Spirit not by our own effort. That awareness is the sign of someone who’s growing deeper in Christ. That’s maturity rooted in grace.

What you said hit home:
“It’s no longer a salvation issue it’s about growth.”
Exactly! We’re not trying to earn salvation, we’re living and growing because we’ve already received it. That’s the beauty and power of grace.

“So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in Him, rooted and built up in Him…” Colossians 2:6–7 (NIV)

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I love you too, brother. And I want to encourage you keep walking, keep growing, and keep your heart open to where God is leading you. There is so much more ahead for you.

If you're involved in ministry work, I would honestly be honored to have a brother in Christ like you walk alongside me in the mission to win souls for Jesus. Let’s labor together in love, boldness, and unity for the Kingdom. Please let me know I'd be blessed to serve alongside you.

Let’s continue lifting each other up and encouraging one another in the faith. You're not alone in this journey. I'm with you, and more importantly, so is our Lord.

Grace and peace to you, in Jesus’ mighty name!
Pastor Waris,

pastorwaris said:

Yes! Sure, Dear brother,
Thank you for your question: “Chapter and verse please for this definition of baptism.”
You asked this in response to the statement: “It’s the public celebration of a personal transformation that already happened the moment one believed in Christ.”

Here are the Scriptures:


They were baptized after receiving the Holy Spirit.

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No where in Scripture does it describe baptism as an ACT FOR THE AUDIENCE. Scriptures do not describe baptism as a public celebration either. This is eisegesis. If it were the case that baptism is a PUBLIC CELEBRATION we would expect verses speaking about baptism to mention the individuals who witness the baptisms to be the focus, or the testimonies of individuals to be the focus. In most cases, people are baptized as soon as possible, often without audiences as in the Samaritans in Acts 8:12-13, Ethiopian eunuch 8:34-39, Saul of Tarsus 9:17-18, 22:12-16, Cornelius and family 10:14, 44-48, Lydia and family 16:13-15, the Philippian jailer and family 16:30-34, Crispus and family 18:7-8, and the Ephesian disciples 19:1-5. We also do not see any testimonies for the public before baptism, past “they believed” (present in some examples and not others) which may or may not have been a vocal profession.

Furthermore, your quotation of Acts 10:47-48 and your emphasis on the word "AFTER" (They were baptized after receiving the Holy Spirit) seems to be cherry picked and ignores other aspects of baptism and the Holy Spirit in the book of Acts. THERE IS NO NORMATIVE WAY THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GIVEN IN BAPTISM, ONLY THAT THE PROMISE IS GIVEN (ACTS 2:39).

The gift of the HS may come immediately before baptism (Cornelius, Acts 10) immediately after baptism (Acts 8 & 19) or during (Acts 2:38-39, 9:17). Complicating this, out of the eight descriptions of baptism in the Book of Acts, faith as a prerequisite is not mentioned in all of them, and repentance as a prerequisite for baptism is only mentioned once.

Ain't Zwinglian said:

No where in Scripture does it describe baptism as an ACT FOR THE AUDIENCE. Scriptures do not describe baptism as a public celebration either. This is eisegesis. If it were the case that baptism is a PUBLIC CELEBRATION we would expect verses speaking about baptism to mention the individuals who witness the baptisms to be the focus, or the testimonies of individuals to be the focus. In most cases, people are baptized as soon as possible, often without audiences as in the Samaritans in Acts 8:12-13, Ethiopian eunuch 8:34-39, Saul of Tarsus 9:17-18, 22:12-16, Cornelius and family 10:14, 44-48, Lydia and family 16:13-15, the Philippian jailer and family 16:30-34, Crispus and family 18:7-8, and the Ephesian disciples 19:1-5. We also do not see any testimonies for the public before baptism, past “they believed” (present in some examples and not others) which may or may not have been a vocal profession.

Furthermore, your quotation of Acts 10:47-48 and your emphasis on the word "AFTER" (They were baptized after receiving the Holy Spirit) seems to be cherry picked and ignores other aspects of baptism and the Holy Spirit in the book of Acts. THERE IS NO NORMATIVE WAY THE HOLY SPIRIT IS GIVEN IN BAPTISM, ONLY THAT THE PROMISE IS GIVEN (ACTS 2:39).

The gift of the HS may come immediately before baptism (Cornelius, Acts 10) immediately after baptism (Acts 8 & 19) or during (Acts 2:38-39, 9:17). Complicating this, out of the eight descriptions of baptism in the Book of Acts, faith as a prerequisite is not mentioned in all of them, and repentance as a prerequisite for baptism is only mentioned once.

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My Dear Brother,
Thank you for raising this thoughtful challenge. You're absolutely right to insist that our view of baptism should be rooted in Scripture, not tradition or personal interpretation. That’s why I appreciate the opportunity to slow down and examine the biblical witness together not just to defend a point, but to sharpen each other in the truth (Proverbs 27:17).

Let me begin by addressing your key concern:
You stated that “nowhere in Scripture does it describe baptism as an act for the audience,” and that describing it as a “public celebration” is eisegesis.

I hear your concern but let’s pause and consider what Scripture actually shows us, in both principle and practice.

1. Baptism Is a Confession Before Men​

Matthew 10:32
“Whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven.”

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While not explicitly about baptism, this sets a clear precedent for a public identification with Christ. Baptism in the early church was the first act of obedience that visibly declared allegiance to Christ before men.

Acts 2:41
“Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them.”

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Three thousand people baptized publicly, in Jerusalem, during Pentecost. That was no private event. It was certainly seen by the watching Jewish community.

2. The Pattern of Baptism Shows Witness​

You're correct in citing multiple cases in Acts where we aren’t told explicitly about a crowd but absence of detail doesn't mean absence of witness. For example:

• Acts 8:12-13 The Samaritans believed and were baptized. Philip wasn’t alone; he was preaching to crowds (v.6).
• Acts 8:38-39 The Ethiopian eunuch was alone with Philip, yes, but Philip was the witness. One person is enough to affirm the public act. The same goes for Ananias baptizing Paul (Acts 9:17-18).
• Acts 16:33 "The jailer and his household were baptized. Who witnessed? His household did. That’s public within his sphere of influence".
• Acts 10:47-48 "Cornelius’ entire household was present. Peter said, “Can anyone forbid water?” indicating others were there".

So while the Bible doesn’t always describe a large audience, it consistently includes others witnessing the baptism whether an apostle, a household, or a gathered crowd. Baptism is not private. It is personal, yes, but never hidden.

3. “Public Celebration” in Biblical Terms​

The term “public celebration” is a modern phrase, but the concept is deeply biblical. Consider:

Romans 6:3–4
“Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?... that we too may walk in newness of life.”

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This is a declaration of death to the old life and resurrection into a new one. In the early church, baptism meant radical departure from paganism or Judaism into Christ. That was not done secretly.

Galatians 3:27
“For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.”

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The Greek word “put on” (ἐνεδύσασθε) implies a public clothing, like wearing a new uniform, a visible declaration of belonging. That is the essence of “public celebration.”

4. On the Holy Spirit’s Timing and “Normative” Experience​

You made an excellent point, the timing of the Holy Spirit’s arrival varies in Acts. That’s true.
But remember: Acts is descriptive, not always prescriptive. It shows God’s flexibility in different situations (Jew, Samaritan, Gentile) as the gospel spread.

Acts 2:38–39 is the clearest promise:
“Repent, and be baptized... and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off…”

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The pattern here is repentance → baptism → reception of the Spirit and Peter says this applies to all who are called.
But whether the Spirit comes before, during, or after baptism, that only strengthens the point: baptism is never the cause of salvation, it is the response to it.

5. Faith and Repentance as Prerequisites​

You stated that faith and repentance are not always mentioned before baptism. That’s true in the text, but let’s read in light of what’s assumed.

Acts 8:12
“But when they believed Philip as he preached... they were baptized.”

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Acts 16:31–33
“Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household… and he was baptized at once…”

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Faith is often summarized in the narrative because it is assumed no one in the New Testament was baptized without belief, except possibly inferences made in modern theology.

Dear Brother,​

You are right to urge caution against eisegesis, but let’s also be careful not to swing the pendulum so far that we deny the communal, declarative, and public nature of baptism in Scripture.

To say baptism is only private, never public, or that it is not a celebration of new life, is to miss the tone and the testimony of Acts, where believers gladly, boldly, and publicly proclaimed: “I belong to Jesus!”

With love for the truth and grace in Christ,
Pastor Waris,
“Let all things be done decently and in order.” (1 Corinthians 14:40)