Scientists Warn That Coral Reefs Face Total Wipeout

Belk said:

No, "Science" has done no such thing.

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Yes Science has been waging a war against religion(Christianity in specific)

Orthodoxjay1 said:

Yes Science has been waging a war against religion(Christianity in specific)

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Really? That is amazing since science is a process. So, how exactly has this process been waging war against religion?

Belk said:

Really? That is amazing since science is a process. So, how exactly has this process been waging war against religion?

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By telling the truth is my guess.

Orthodoxjay1 said:

Yes Science has been waging a war against religion(Christianity in specific)

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No. SOME Christians are waging a war on science because they think that science and religion answer the same questions. And they are unbelievably incorrect in that assumption.

Orthodoxjay1 said:

My point is put evolution to its logical conclusion, if the planet is going to die, then let's see who the fittest to survive, instead of preach it, then walk it back with some social justice feel good stuff, when the going gets tough.

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How strange is it to me that the skeptics argument to AGW is: Well, let's just let the poorest die off and the strongest survive. That's what evolution calls for anyways right? (You'll find a HIGH correlation between skepticism and Christian faith herE).

And yet the proponents argument for AGW say: This is a very real threat to humanity that is going to cause a lot of suffering for the poorest and most vulnerable people on the planet and we should do something to help those people.


Seriously Christian skeptics, how did you get so completely lost from such a basic tenet of the faith as "care for the vulnerable"?

Uncle Siggy said:

That's why I asked the question cause those are the 3 most common theories about reefs dying off climate change, pollution and over fishing.

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That is incorrect.

CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN said:

By telling the truth is my guess.

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The only truth is the Gospel message of Jesus Christ conquering death at his resurrection to save Sinners through salvation.

rambot said:

No. SOME Christians are waging a war on science because they think that science and religion answer the same questions. And they are unbelievably incorrect in that assumption.



How strange is it to me that the skeptics argument to AGW is: Well, let's just let the poorest die off and the strongest survive. That's what evolution calls for anyways right? (You'll find a HIGH correlation between skepticism and Christian faith herE).

And yet the proponents argument for AGW say: This is a very real threat to humanity that is going to cause a lot of suffering for the poorest and most vulnerable people on the planet and we should do something to help those people.


Seriously Christian skeptics, how did you get so completely lost from such a basic tenet of the faith as "care for the vulnerable"?

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Of course we should care for others, however Global Warming is natural, and comes in cycles, did the " bad evil humans" cause all the other cycles of Global warming too, it just another cause to extort more money from everyone, and to take away more liberties from people, it just another fashion cause of the left, just like feminism, the hippy movement, gun control, gay rights movement, drug legalization, Iconoclasm, transgender bathrooms, etc.

Orthodoxjay1 said:

...Global Warming is natural, and comes in cycles, did the " bad evil humans" cause all the other cycles of Global warming too,

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I love it when deniers post this as if they were the first person to raise this objection and it hadn't been addresses a million times before on the Internet.

Just for your edification Oj, the causes of the natural, cyclical warming have been looked for and they're not happening now. The only thing that is happening now is atmospheric CO2 has increased from 320ppm to 400+ppm in the last 100 years. If it weren't for atmospheric carbon, we'd actually be in a cooling trend right now. Do try and keep up with the science instead of just repeating PRATTs.

Orthodoxjay1 said:

it just another cause to extort more money from everyone, and to take away more liberties from people, it just another fashion cause of the left, just like feminism, the hippy movement, gun control, gay rights movement, drug legalization, Iconoclasm, transgender bathrooms, etc.

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Tin foil hattery and personal peeves don't actually address the science. Economic arguments don't matter either. The "fix" for global warming could cost a penny or a bazillion dollars and either way it wouldn't effect the science one iota.

Orthodoxjay1 said:

The only truth is the Gospel message of Jesus Christ conquering death at his resurrection to save Sinners through salvation.

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Science has nothing to say about that.

Orthodoxjay1 said:

Of course we should care for others, however Global Warming is natural, and comes in cycles, did the " bad evil humans" cause all the other cycles of Global warming too, it just another cause to extort more money from everyone, and to take away more liberties from people, it just another fashion cause of the left, just like feminism, the hippy movement, gun control, gay rights movement, drug legalization, Iconoclasm, transgender bathrooms, etc.

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I'm impressed that you managed to pack so much wrong in so short a statement. Somehow, in your mind you have taken a bunch of "leftist" stuff that you really hate and found a way to causally link them together into some overarching comprehensive conspiracy that is interrelated???

What does feminism have to do with the hippy movement have to do with gun control have to do with gay rights have to do with drug legalization have to do with transgender bathrooms???

The only commonality I can see is that the heart of each issue deals with truth. If America is truly the "Land of Equality and Freedom" then what does that mean? What are the ramifications of a creed that says "We are all equal under the law... That everyone of us has the right to life liberty and the pursuit of happiness..."

So yeah, if there is a link between all that stuff you spouted it is that...

But how that relates to Global Warming, I literally have no idea. Your mind must be a scary place to somehow find a way to lump that all together into a conspiracy.

The only linkage is truth. The truth is, mankind is taking actions that hurt our environment. The data is undeniable to those of us who have a basic grasp of logic, math, and science.

USincognito said:

...Economic arguments don't matter either. The "fix" for global warming could cost a penny or a bazillion dollars and either way it wouldn't effect the science one iota.

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Very true. Gravity, electromagnetism, and thermodynamics, etc aren't effect by our personal views and philosophies. The natural forces of the universe act independent of our personal tin hattery and human hang ups. And in the case of global warming, the facts are very simple.

Crap in the air that is the right size to trap heat and lead to a runaway effect is a strong contributing factor to global warming. This one particular factor is one in which human beings have a fair measure of control over.

Less crap in the air leads to less of a runaway effect.

SO it comes down to a very simple decision: Are we as a species going to put less crap in the air.

Sure, there are other natural sources, sure there are other factors as well. But there are factors we CAN CONTROL. So... are we going to control what we can control?

Uncle Siggy said:

You know I'm kinda curious as to why the article failed to mention pollution and overfishing as reasons the reefs could be dying off???

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When facts are required I find the best source for factual information is the "actual sources" involved in providing that information is best, rather than the media, whether right or left. Thus for scientific claims, the actual published peer review research would be the best source of information.

So, just what is causing the bleaching of the global ocean's coral reefs? Fact, the warming oceans. Although most of what the public experiences and is interested in is their immediate physical surroundings, i.e. the land temperatures. That is what most people identify with, how warm or cool is it. So when we talk about global warming we generally refer to Global Average Temperature (GAT). That includes both the land and sea surface temperatures combined, and what is what we experience physically. However, when we look into the total heat content of the earth with respect to incoming radiation (heat), direct measurements show that there is more incoming heat to the earth than is leaving the earth, thus Global Warming. Additionally measured is where that extra heat is going. Keep in mind that I mentioned the "surface temperature", land and sea surface combined. More than 90% of this extra heat is going into the oceans, with only some 10% going into the land and sea surface area that we more readily experience.

Now, just what does all that mean with respect to coral reefs? The coral reefs are declining due to ocean water temperature increase. Corals are very dependent upon water temperature. What the science shows, and this is Marine Biology science, is bleaching due to warming water. As for the pollution, not only is most of the heat being absorbed by the oceans, but most of the excess CO2 in the atmosphere due to fossil fuel emissions is also being absorbed by the oceans, thus ocean acidification.

Here's a few, not media, but actual original science sources:
(Glynn & D'Croz 1990)
(Eakin 2010)
(Gardner 2003)
(Bruno & Selig 2007)
(Glynn 1990)
(Veron 2009)
(Abram 2003)
(Aronson 2003)
(Pandolfini & Jackson 2006)


And here's a nice little graph to look at for heat distribution.


Source: Church et al. (2011)

Orthodoxjay1 said:

Yes Science has been waging a war against religion(Christianity in specific)

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As a former scientist who is also Christian, I'm beyond annoyed at the ignorance displayed by arguments like this.

All science attempts to do is explain the "how" and "what" of things we see in the world and universe around us.

Religion is concerned with our souls and afterlife and answering the "why did God make us" questions and that is fine. Science has no interest in answering the why questions nor is that the purpose of science.

What I find more often than not is that Religious types feel threatened by science because Religious types INCORRECTLY try to use the bible to answer how and what questions better left to science.

The bible does not offer a blueprint for building a combustion engine so you should not profess that the bible teaches you how to build a combustion engine. And when science comes around and explains that your bible combustion engine is built on faulty premises and is incorrect you take it as an "attack on religion". The reality is that you overstepped the boundaries of religion and tried to make it do what it was not intended to do.

Truth is, there is no conflict between science and religion, the only conflict is that which is manufactured by the ignorant.

Orthodoxjay1 said:

Yes Science has been waging a war against religion(Christianity in specific)

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Please. Do go on. Cite some specifics.

Orthodoxjay1 said:

My point is put evolution to its logical conclusion, if the planet is going to die, then let's see who the fittest to survive, instead of preach it, then walk it back with some social justice feel good stuff, when the going gets tough.

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Nonexistent.

The rest of your babble only shows you don't understand evolution and you're just ranting against a straw man.

Orthodoxjay1 said:

...however Global Warming is natural, and comes in cycles,

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You know that people die of natural causes, but that doesn't mean that all people die of natural causes, right? Let me know if my point is too subtle.

Orthodoxjay1 said:

did the " bad evil humans"

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Histrionic hyperbole does not help if you wish to be taken seriously by those who do not agree with you.

Orthodoxjay1 said:

cause all the other cycles of Global warming too,

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As has been explained a thousand times on this forum alone, climatologists and geophysicists understand the natural processes that cause warming - none of them are effecting the earth right now. In fact we should be in a cooling phase, but instead we're getting warmer. The actual scientists who study this issue are smarter than you think you are.

Orthodoxjay1 said:

it just another cause to extort more money from everyone, and to take away more liberties from people, it just another fashion cause of the left, just like feminism, the hippy movement, gun control, gay rights movement, drug legalization, Iconoclasm, transgender bathrooms, etc.

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Tin foil hattery and a laundry list of stuff you don't like is not the same as making a cogent, science based argument against global warming. Try discuss instead of ranting and people might take you more seriously on the subject.

I don't get why some refuse to see that it's Mother Nature calling the shots...

Methane hydrates « World Ocean Review

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/01/140102142008.htm