Scientists hail stem cell breakthrough

[Smidlee]

The people pushing the politics on embryonic stem cell research are complete hacks when you look at the whole picture. Because what Bush is basically saying is, throw the eggs because life is so precious.

really, I haven't heard anything about Bush hindering this research. Bush like Clinton just ban use tax payers money to fund this research. Also what makes these people hacks? becuase they againest government funding this research. The ones I heard would rather spend more money of Adult stem cells because as of now it's more promising and has already made many break thoughs.

I remember something a while back on 60 minutes there was a mult-billions research company (non-profit) do a lot of research in stem cells and even making a profit. They didn't want the governments money because of all the red tape so the scientist has total liberty to research as they please. (guess who going to get the best scientists) It's seems people believes big government got to have it's hand in everything or we go back to the dark ages. I believe depending on the government to do everything will send us there since the government waste too much.

 

[Ninja Turtles]

really, I haven't heard anything about Bush hindering this research. Bush like Clinton just ban use tax payers money to fund this research. Also what makes these people hacks? becuase they againest government funding this research. The ones I heard would rather spend more money of Adult stem cells because as of now it's more promising and has already made many break thoughs.

I remember something a while back on 60 minutes there was a mult-billions research company (non-profit) do a lot of research in stem cells and even making a profit. They didn't want the governments money because of all the red tape so the scientist has total liberty to research as they please. (guess who going to get the best scientists) It's seems people believes big government got to have it's hand in everything or we go back to the dark ages. I believe depending on the government to do everything will send us there since the government waste too much.

Anyone that follows trends in biomedical research knows that progress is made in the public sector, progress will be slow if anything in the private sector. That has been said several times already. Just look at the involvement of the NIH in universities across the country and you'll see how much progress the public field has over private. That's why private researchers are going to the public field because there is more progress.

Don't try to turn this into a reliance on the government thing because you have to first understand the industry you're talking about. From the private research standpoint there's a huge reason why progress is slow, and that's mainly because of investment. Companies want to invest in something like Viagra instead of stem cell research. This has nothing to do with reliance on government, it has all to do with progress of research.

And you seemed to have missed the point about my hack comments. Reread the posts about IVF and people's opposition to stem cell research, but not to IVF. It's hypocritical and can only add up to being political hacks to get money and/or votes. The fact that none of these people are actively trying to ban IVF is the point that was being made.

Withholding funds for research is hindrance, especially when so much progress has been made in the public arena and the private sector has taken a different direction where profit is the only concern. People want to try call this a simple issue when it is much more complex.

 

[Quijote]

Are they active in trying to shut down fertility clinics, or is it just passive opposition?

Unfortunately for Catholics in the US, there has been a lack of cathecises (sp?) in the past 40yrs or so. So the Church is trying to teach it's members about the moral problems with IVF (and abortion, and contraception, etc...). A long, long battle, but one that the Church is obliged to do.

cheers

 

[Smidlee]

Anyone that follows trends in biomedical research knows that progress is made in the public sector, progress will be slow if anything in the private sector. That has been said several times already. Just look at the involvement of the NIH in universities across the country and you'll see how much progress the public field has over private. That's why private researchers are going to the public field because there is more progress.

Well this research organization I was refeering to could be the exception and not the rule. They did claim it was a scientist paradise. It was non-profit because the government was going to seige a billionare wealth (I forgot his name) so he dump it all into this non-profit organization so the government couldn't touch it.

Don't try to turn this into a reliance on the government thing because you have to first understand the industry you're talking about. From the private research standpoint there's a huge reason why progress is slow, and that's mainly because of investment. Companies want to invest in something like Viagra instead of stem cell research. This has nothing to do with reliance on government, it has all to do with progress of research.

Yet when they do make a break-thur drug they charge full price for the drug. The fact is our healthcare system is breaking our economy because of greed. Having the public to pay on both end of this research does nothing to slow down greed. If someone really believes in this research then they should put their own money into it and not force everyone to pay. I doubt many here who claim to be for this research here has actually giving to help this research. It always easier to spend someone else money.

And you seemed to have missed the point about my hack comments. Reread the posts about IVF and people's opposition to stem cell research, but not to IVF. It's hypocritical and can only add up to being political hacks to get money and/or votes. The fact that none of these people are actively trying to ban IVF is the point that was being made.

Actually i've seen the 700 club address this very issue which it the danger of this kind research.( I very seldom watch 700club since I'm not to crazy about it.) How far will man go to prolong his life? Would we creat life to kill it to prolong ours? (the vampire effect) Even christians would find it hard to resist this temptation. As point out in 700 club the really no way to stopping this research since everyone wants to prolong their health and life.

Withholding funds for research is hindrance, especially when so much progress has been made in the public arena and the private sector has taken a different direction where profit is the only concern. People want to try call this a simple issue when it is much more complex.

I agree the private sector not too hot yet the public sector still doesn't solve IMHO the real problem ; greed and government waste.

 

[Alarum]

Shut down fertility clinics because of this? I'm not hearing this. By best estimates, 50% of embryos are spontaniously terminated in the womb, and all the woman knows is she had a late and heavy period. Lets bring them up on manslaughter charges!

Sad fact - no one cares enough about this silly whining to go through the insanely tedious process of trying to use one egg at a time when a woman sheds a dozen a year. Oh wait, the sad part is someone is whining about it.

 

[the_malevolent_milk_man]

Shut down fertility clinics because of this? I'm not hearing this. By best estimates, 50% of embryos are spontaniously terminated in the womb, and all the woman knows is she had a late and heavy period. Lets bring them up on manslaughter charges!

Sad fact - no one cares enough about this silly whining to go through the insanely tedious process of trying to use one egg at a time when a woman sheds a dozen a year. Oh wait, the sad part is someone is whining about it.

Haha, another interesting point. Embryos are often naturally aborted without the woman ever knowing and no one cares. However, when the same thing happens in a petri dish it's murder.

I don't think you could get them on manslaughter though. Perhaps criminal negligance?

 

[KenH]

www.stemcellresearch.org

 

[KenH]

An interesting article from Australia:

"The federal Government is setting up a committee to review the possibility of allowing therapeutic cloning so it's important to get this straight now: cures from so-called therapeutic cloning are probably decades away, if ever.

Just for the moment, put the central issue of whether the clone is a human being in brackets. Other practical and ethical issues make the Koreans' research a non-starter. This is an opinion shared by many scientists, starting with Australia's Alan Trounson, a world expert on embryonic stem cells. He told the journal Nature Medicine earlier this month that "the so-called therapeutic cloning to my mind is a non-event". As a way of creating cures, he observed, "it's just not realistic". "

- http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,15371718%255E7583,00.html

 

[jamesrwright3]

Haha, another interesting point. Embryos are often naturally aborted without the woman ever knowing and no one cares. However, when the same thing happens in a petri dish it's murder.

I don't think you could get them on manslaughter though. Perhaps criminal negligance?

No because one is an intentional act and the other one is a natural process. There is a great moral difference.

 

[christalee4]

Well this research organization I was refeering to could be the exception and not the rule. They did claim it was a scientist paradise. It was non-profit because the government was going to seige a billionare wealth (I forgot his name) so he dump it all into this non-profit organization so the government couldn't touch it.
Yet when they do make a break-thur drug they charge full price for the drug. The fact is our healthcare system is breaking our economy because of greed. Having the public to pay on both end of this research does nothing to slow down greed. If someone really believes in this research then they should put their own money into it and not force everyone to pay. I doubt many here who claim to be for this research here has actually giving to help this research. It always easier to spend someone else money.
Actually i've seen the 700 club address this very issue which it the danger of this kind research.( I very seldom watch 700club since I'm not to crazy about it.) How far will man go to prolong his life? Would we creat life to kill it to prolong ours? (the vampire effect) Even christians would find it hard to resist this temptation. As point out in 700 club the really no way to stopping this research since everyone wants to prolong their health and life.
I agree the private sector not too hot yet the public sector still doesn't solve IMHO the real problem ; greed and government waste.

Smidlee - interesting that you focus on the greed aspect of research. That is the whole key of health care problem in this country, as well as the pharmaceutical problems. The greedy guys are raking it in, at our expense.

The current administration, while although talks about the family values issues, is more in tune with the corporate profiteerists, rather than wanting to help the middle class. Conservative Christians are being used as voter drivers, while at home they are paying the price like everybody else.

 

[Alarum]

No because one is an intentional act and the other one is a natural process. There is a great moral difference.

Uh no. Neither is an intentional process. One is a side effect of the artificial fertilization process. The other is a side effect of the natural fertilization process.

 

[jamesrwright3]

Uh no. Neither is an intentional process. One is a side effect of the artificial fertilization process. The other is a side effect of the natural fertilization process.

Sorry my bad I thought he was referring to the creation of embryos for stem cell research. In that case, my point would apply.

 

[Alarum]

Sorry my bad I thought he was referring to the creation of embryos for stem cell research. In that case, my point would apply.

Well the problem is that there's no embryos created for stem cell research. NONE. Embryos are created for fertilization.

Now at some point some scientist said, as one of the people was taking another batch of unused embryos out to the dumpster, "hey, can we have a few of those?" Hence embryonic stem cells. The fact is, there's orders of magnitude more discarded embryos then there is demand for them for stem cell lines, and chances are that an embryo will never be created for stem cells no matter how popular the research gets.

Not a single embryo has ever been created because of embryonic stem cell research, and not a viable embryo that would have become a child has died because of it.

And meanwhile we sentance thousands upon thousands to horrible diseases and painful deaths because Bush is making his constituants, who he has miseducated, happy. The issue is painted like these doctors are running up to women and offering them money to have their fetus aborted so they could get the stem cells, when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.

 

[Ninja Turtles]

Well the problem is that there's no embryos created for stem cell research. NONE. Embryos are created for fertilization.

Now at some point some scientist said, as one of the people was taking another batch of unused embryos out to the dumpster, "hey, can we have a few of those?" Hence embryonic stem cells. The fact is, there's orders of magnitude more discarded embryos then there is demand for them for stem cell lines, and chances are that an embryo will never be created for stem cells no matter how popular the research gets.

Not a single embryo has ever been created because of embryonic stem cell research, and not a viable embryo that would have become a child has died because of it.

And meanwhile we sentance thousands upon thousands to horrible diseases and painful deaths because Bush is making his constituants, who he has miseducated, happy. The issue is painted like these doctors are running up to women and offering them money to have their fetus aborted so they could get the stem cells, when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.

Exactly, laws and rules for ethics can easily be passed saying that an embroy can't be created to be used in research, but even so no embryos are being created for research. They come from fertility clinics.

 

[jamesrwright3]

Well the problem is that there's no embryos created for stem cell research. NONE. Embryos are created for fertilization.
.

There is no problem. If the Korean yechnique is the way to go, it clearly creates embryos (early ones)and those embryos are destroyed in the process of extracting the genetic material.
It's all in the article in the original post.

 

[Ninja Turtles]

There is no problem. If the Korean technique is the way to go, it clearly creates embryos (early ones) and those embryos are destroyed in the process of extracting the genetic material.
It's all in the article in the original post.

Actually the article doesn't say that. They just say the eggs are donated, they don't say whether they are fertilized or not, but they probably are fertilized as they seem to be using a DNA replacement technique where they use the patient DNA in the egg.

But even so, you're making a rather nonsensical point, even if they created the embryos to later modify, the technique is not in the embryo creation at all. Whether you get a fertilized or unfertilized egg, the technique comes with the embryo. In the U.S., they want to use embryos that are going to be discarded. You're pointing to something that is rather irrelevant.

 

[platzapS]

As Alarum said above, there are plenty of embryos being discarded every year, more than enough to supply scientists for research. The choice we have is this:

1) Allow these embryos to be discarded, and let people suffer of horrible diseases, or
2)Allow these embryos to be used for research. They are going to be terminated/destroyed anyway; there is no stopping that. Why not use the extra embryos to help save people's lives?

 

[jamesrwright3]

Actually the article doesn't say that. They just say the eggs are donated, they don't say whether they are fertilized or not, but they probably are fertilized as they seem to be using a DNA replacement technique where they use the patient DNA in the egg.

But even so, you're making a rather nonsensical point, even if they created the embryos to later modify, the technique is not in the embryo creation at all. Whether you get a fertilized or unfertilized egg, the technique comes with the embryo. In the U.S., they want to use embryos that are going to be discarded. You're pointing to something that is rather irrelevant.

Actually it does say that.. Did you ever read the articlel?.
Quoting the article:

To make them patient-specific, the researchers took DNA from the skin cells of volunteers and put this genetic material into donated human eggs which had had their own genetic material removed.

These eggs were grown to a very early stage of embryo development, around six days, when they were still just small balls of cells. The scientists then extracted the stem cells

.

No, my point is non-sensical. Yours clearly is and is contradictory to the article. They are clearly creating embryos in order to later destroy them. They are not utilizing embryos which are left over in cold storage.

 

[jamesrwright3]

As Alarum said above, there are plenty of embryos being discarded every year, more than enough to supply scientists for research. The choice we have is this:

1) Allow these embryos to be discarded, and let people suffer of horrible diseases, or
2)Allow these embryos to be used for research. They are going to be terminated/destroyed anyway; there is no stopping that. Why not use the extra embryos to help save people's lives?

Yes, but those embryos may be essentially useless for therapy. New embryos, containing the DNA from the patient, will probably need to be created and then those are destoyed in the process of extracting the necessary cells.

 

[jamesrwright3]

Well the problem is that there's no embryos created for stem cell research. NONE. Embryos are created for fertilization.

Now at some point some scientist said, as one of the people was taking another batch of unused embryos out to the dumpster, "hey, can we have a few of those?" Hence embryonic stem cells. The fact is, there's orders of magnitude more discarded embryos then there is demand for them for stem cell lines, and chances are that an embryo will never be created for stem cells no matter how popular the research gets.

Not a single embryo has ever been created because of embryonic stem cell research, and not a viable embryo that would have become a child has died because of it.

And meanwhile we sentance thousands upon thousands to horrible diseases and painful deaths because Bush is making his constituants, who he has miseducated, happy. The issue is painted like these doctors are running up to women and offering them money to have their fetus aborted so they could get the stem cells, when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.

The point is not yet! I don't have a problem with people using embryos that will be discarded, However, it appears that(as per the research in South Korea) new embryos will need to be created with the patients own DNA in order to have any theraputic value.