Scientism

[AV1611VET]

I am nearly absolutely certain that absolutely sure knowledge can't be done.

And those who close their eyes to the likes of BC/AD, Christian churches, edifices, hymns, carols, holidays, organizations, bumper stickers, activities, books, high-profile debates, and other such like deserve to be called "fools" by the very Writing they try so hard to suppress.

 

[Derek Meyer]

As I have said many times there is a huge difference between drawing up plans on paper and actually building it. The real people are the ones that can actually get the job done and not just write books or make it look good on paper. The true test is when the rubber meets the road. These are the people that really get the job done. Because they are the ones that actually have to get it to work in the real world.

Yes, exactly like those guys who actually do the exploration and mining.

All the exploration and mining companies from all over the world I've ever heard of use old earth models. And they spend billions. As they say, the proof is in the pudding. All those mining companies spend millions in exploration and all that stuff and mining and all that stuff.

Yet, there's not even one YEC religious exploration or mining company even trying to put their money where their mouths are.

So, yes, there's a huge difference between speaking in churches and actually building shafts. Mining companies do it. YEC's talk in fundamentalist churches or mosques.

 

[Derek Meyer]

And those who close their eyes to the likes of BC/AD,...

Hey, stop right there. I really don't close my eyes to the fact that Thursdays were named after the God of Thunder.

 

[Derek Meyer]

I am nearly absolutely certain that absolutely sure knowledge can't be done.

I think that you're wrong here. I certainly have absolutely sure knowledge that you won't ever find any coal in borehole 3 on portion 11 of the Farm Uitkop 315.

That's absolutely certain and sure knowledge. I mean, the whole core consists of igneous rocks. From top to bottom. So, I can be absolutely certain that absolutely sure knowledge can be done.

Yet, the farmer still believes that he's sitting on a fortune in coal...beliefs and philosophical murmerings are to the detriment of society.

 

[KWCrazy]

I think that you're wrong here. I certainly have absolutely sure knowledge that you won't ever find any coal in borehole 3 on portion 11 of the Farm Uitkop 315.

I could always toss a few pieces down there. Ever is a long time.

 

[Derek Meyer]

I could always toss a few pieces down there. Ever is a long time.

You don't make any sense. Do you really think that I won't be able to distinguish between the rocks and what you toss down the hole? While drilling?

 

[KWCrazy]

You don't make any sense.

You said I wouldn't ever find any coal there, yet if I tossed a few pieces I WOULD find coal and you would be wrong.
You never ruled out external forces.

 

[AV1611VET]

Hey, stop right there. I really don't close my eyes to the fact that Thursdays were named after the God of Thunder.

We call that Diabolical mimicry.

And for the record, who says Thor doesn't exist?

 

[Derek Meyer]

You said I wouldn't ever find any coal there, yet if I tossed a few pieces I WOULD find coal and you would be wrong.
You never ruled out external forces.

Actually, I did. Not one piece of coal was found in that borehole.

 

[Heissonear]

Yes, exactly like those guys who actually do the exploration and mining.

All the exploration and mining companies from all over the world I've ever heard of use old earth models. And they spend billions. As they say, the proof is in the pudding. All those mining companies spend millions in exploration and all that stuff and mining and all that stuff.

Yet, there's not even one YEC religious exploration or mining company even trying to put their money where their mouths are.

So, yes, there's a huge difference between speaking in churches and actually building shafts. Mining companies do it. YEC's talk in fundamentalist churches or mosques.

You have more to learn and so do I. However it appears you have stopped at the university level in hhow this world came about and seem to have ignored I John 2:20, 27 and the like. With hidden intentions and purposes God has physically made this Creation beyond what universities discuss and what we observe in the the field.

May I say at His coming militant atheist in university departments will be speechless and their knowledge worthless in their hands.

God has not handed over the most precious about this Creation to those of the five senses that implement geologic principles. Far be it, Mate.

Scientism drifts one off course.

Hebrews 6:3 states clearly a person cannot learn even the elementary thing unless He permits. A dust perspective means very little to learn what God has Created, even the Kingdom of Heaven in our midst, an insepererable part of this physical young Creation.

 

[Derek Meyer]

We call that Diabolical mimicry.

And for the record, who says Thor doesn't exist?

Exactly, because Thursday was named after Thor, Thor must exist.

 

[Derek Meyer]

You have more to learn and so do I. However it appears you have stopped at the university level...

This one is funny. Actually, exploration and mining companies do build mines, you know?

 

[Derek Meyer]

You have more to learn and so do I. However it appears you have stopped at the university level in hhow this world came about...

Actually, I have Physics only at first year level. Nothing at first year level on how the world came about.

I did, however, study rocks. And the rocks I personally studied are very, very old. So, to me, personally, whether the BB actually happened or not won't change the fact the the rocks I studied are very, very, old. Or the way the earth came about won't change the fact that the rocks I personally studied are very, very old. Or the way that the Sun came about won't change the fact that the rocks I studied are very, very old.

 

[Heissonear]

You said I wouldn't ever find any coal there, yet if I tossed a few pieces I WOULD find coal and you would be wrong.
You never ruled out external forces.

KW, coal "splits" and the thickness of coal seams in many locations do not fit "old Earth" depositional rates and environments.

Talking to "devout old Earth geologists" can lead to strife.

It takes the Spirit and their heart to become open to Him.

Sometimes we can become closed minded by being preprogrammed by institutions. It almost happened to me. But "Pow" the Holy Spirit came to my open heart, and I knew not about the baptism of the Spirit. The Heavens Open to those who need Him and want to learn from Him, rather than from men. Praise Him on High!

 

[Heissonear]

Actually, I have Physics only at first year level. Nothing at first year level on how the world came about.

I did, however, study rocks. And the rocks I personally studied are very, very old. So, to me, personally, whether the BB actually happened or not won't change the fact the the rocks I studied are very, very, old. Or the way the earth came about won't change the fact that the rocks I personally studied are very, very old. Or the way that the Sun came about won't change the fact that the rocks I studied are very, very old.

Study some more. I took chemistry level radiometric dating way back. And still see it routinely practiced.

That is dust level stuff. That is where some in the five senses are still at, unfortunately.

I John 2:20 they never matured in, nor know what there is to learn from Him about His Creation. As a natural geologist first, by being, life has been a wonder to see the new through Him, according to His written word.

 

[Derek Meyer]

KW, coal "splits" and the thickness of coal seams in many locations do not fit "old Earth" depositional rates and environments.

Yet, absolutely no coal was found in that borehole.

You're really crazy.

To get back to it, I certainly have absolutely sure knowledge that you won't ever find any coal in borehole 3 on portion 11 of the Farm Uitkop 315.

That's absolutely certain and sure knowledge. I mean, the whole core consists of igneous rocks. From top to bottom. So, I can be absolutely certain that absolutely sure knowledge can be done.

Yet, the farmer still believes that he's sitting on a fortune in coal...beliefs and philosophical murmerings are to the detriment of society.

 

[Derek Meyer]

I could always toss a few pieces down there. Ever is a long time.

This one is why it's so frustrating to even have to try and have a conversation with some people.

You drill a hole. You take out the core while drilling it. That's what you get. Rocks and rocks and rocks. That's what's meant by a borehole in geological terms. You take the core out.

Then they drop something in the hole and pretend that it's the same as what you get when drilling the hole.

Some people really are quite dishonest.

 

[Chris B]

And those who close their eyes to the likes of BC/AD, Christian churches, edifices, hymns, carols, holidays, organizations, bumper stickers, activities, books, high-profile debates, and other such like deserve to be called "fools" by the very Writing they try so hard to suppress.

That tells me about the existence of religion, with not enough doubt to worry about.
Born in different country it could have been a different set of liturgies, chants etc. that you were familiar with.

And in many a belief so strong that war was engaged with others of largely the same belief, or not, over differences of understanding. Almost down the proper end to be opened on a boiled egg (each side believing, naturally, that what they had been raised to was the only good and correct understanding).
That's when it wasn't so mixed up with territory and power politics that it wasn't clear whether the Church or the state had the other inside its dominion.

Does science or scientism impinge on this?
Perhaps only to note that beliefs are distributed remarkably by geography rather than anything else, with the effects of historical movement of people still present after centuries.

 

[Derek Meyer]

KW, coal "splits" and the thickness of coal seams in many locations do not fit "old Earth" depositional rates and environments.

I'm not too sure why you think that the sure knowledge that you won't ever find any coal in borehole 3 on portion 11 of the Farm Uitkop 315 is helping your case.

 

[Chris B]

I think that you're wrong here. I certainly have absolutely sure knowledge that you won't ever find any coal in borehole 3 on portion 11 of the Farm Uitkop 315.

That's absolutely certain and sure knowledge. I mean, the whole core consists of igneous rocks. From top to bottom. So, I can be absolutely certain that absolutely sure knowledge can be done.

Pretty close to absolutely sure.
The thing itself, then, provided your memory is dead sure....
I've had a couple of geographical surprises from my memory, in my time.
At least for me, that takes it back to that tiny edge short of absolutely sure.
(My memory had misplaced five mile of coastline, and was registering no doubt in the matter... I wouldn't have doubted or questioned either, but when I came to walk that same stretch fifteen years later...)