Scientifically Minded Christians

[lesliedellow]

There is no conflict between Christianity and science. There is an appearance of conflict because there are many scientific theories, such as evolution, that are believed to be true when in fact they haven't actually be proved and there is scientific evidence that contradicts them.

Except that MCA is on the verge of becoming an atheist because he knows that isn't true. That is not uncommon when creationists find themselves confronted by the evidence in a university level biology course. What usually happens is that they become atheists. If MCA manages to avoid that, he will be one of the exceptions.

 

[Max Shade]

Some of you may have heard my story but in a nutshell I lost my faith in college mostly due to a biology course I took. I have developed a very scientific/naturalistic perspective of the universe and our origins. As a former Christian, I am conflicted with being this way. To the point that I cannot listen/read/converse with scientific teachings because, well, it makes sense to me. And as I have stated in a couple other threads, I don't want to be an atheist. I've read lots of apologetic material, the Bible, a few priests/pastors, and this way of mind I have remains. I am wanting to know of any scientifically minded Christians out there who have found God. How did you balance the two. In other words, how does it work out for you? What are your thoughts? How do you cope?

Simply? I got real. Real with the world. Discarding all the "Christian stuff" what really offends me about the world? What do I want to change? What injustices grab my soul and make me want to DO something? Well ,this was natural law. Natural law says that ignorant people with addictions to feed will commit crime to support habits they can't afford. Natural law says that educated people will commit crime given the opportunity and lack of a moral reason not to. Criminology is a science. Criminology is the science I am most educated in, though I have dedicate significant academic credit across all sciences. When I look at the Neo-classical school of criminology, I have a hard time differentiating it from classic Christian doctrine, not because I don't want to, but because these streams of thought are works in homonym. It is willful ignorance not to see the similarities in theme. It is outright lie to make neoclassical criminology into a system that doesn't harmonize with Christianity on an almost line for line basis. I'd extend a gauntlet in the form of "please demonstrate a lack of harmony between neo-classical criminology and Christian Missiology.

 

[Krillin]

A lot of early science was to learn more about, and be able to admire, the wonderful creations of God. Now people like Richard Dawkins try to stress the fact that science has erased any and all reason to believe in a creator.

Evolution describes how humans have become greater and more significant throughout the Earth's history. Interestingly enough, the more we know about the universe, the more insignificant we realize we are. At first we absolutely knew that we were the center of the universe. If you said otherwise, you were burned at the stake. After a while, people began to accept the idea that the sun was the center.

Nowadays, we see that we are standing on just another rock in the cosmos, revolving around one of 70 sextillion stars, in one of hundreds of billions of galaxies, floating around in a vast sea of absolutely nothing.

I really believe God wants to put us in our place. I don't see any room for the self-righteous view of "Oh, we have all this knowledge on our own. There is no need for a God."

I have been in a situation much like the OP describes. I was a deist at best. God revealed himself to me. I'm praying he does the same for you.

 

[lesliedellow]

How did you balance the two. In other words, how does it work out for you? What are your thoughts? How do you cope?

I don't even try to understand Genesis 1-11 as science. Instead they are theology in the Hebrew manner of story telling, rather than the Greek manner of abstract concepts, which is so familiar to us today.

To me, the opening chapters of Genesis are about a lot of things. Such as God's role as creator and Lord of all he has created. It is about our responsibility to him, and what he requires of us. It is about human pride and sin, and the way in which that separates us from God. It is about the fearful consequences of disobedience to God, and so on.

None of that is science. If you want to hear the story of creation told in terms of physical processes, then you go to a scientist. What you will hear there is a description of something which God set in motion. They are not competing accounts of creation, but parallel accounts of creation. One primarily about the meaning and purpose God gives to his creation, and the other about the physical processes which immediately followed upon that creation.

I hope that you can escape from your YEC past, but there is no magic wand anybody can wave.

 

[Max Shade]

A lot of early science was to learn more about, and be able to admire, the wonderful creations of God. Now people like Richard Dawkins try to stress the fact that science has erased any and all reason to believe in a creator.

My belief has nothing to do with having a faith proven by science. . . it has everything to do with science pointing to a faith. . . . .

I am a criminologist (that is a kind of scientist). I understand natural law. I see the correlation between it and the Judeo-Christian ethos. I have anecdotal experience. I have tested my anecdotal experience against other viable explanations. I have reached a personal conclusion. Still waiting for how I have failed scientific method.

 

[theophilus40]

I don't even try to understand Genesis 1-11 as science.

Of course it isn't science. It is history, just like the rest of Genesis.

 

[lesliedellow]

Of course it isn't science. It is history, just like the rest of Genesis.

Where did Noah get the Kangaroos and Polar Bears from?

 

[Crandaddy]

I'm trying so hard to reconcile evolution and God and I just can't. Where did man begin and where did he end.

With rational cognition.

Since I apparently do a rather poor job of explaining technical concepts, I'll defer to the always brilliant Ed Feser. See here and here, for starters.

I feel God and the bible only work with a creation account.

Do you mean a literal-interpretation-of-Genesis creation account? Why on earth would you think this?

And if the earth is old evolution is true and if evolution is true I fear there is no God.

I don't see even the slightest trace of tension between evolution and theism, much less conflict. In fact, I happen to believe that the existence of God can be logically proven without any reference to evolution at all.

I've been brought back to this forum because my anxiety has increased to the point that at times I can hardly function at work. I wish I were dumb enough to accept atheism but I know my life is not worth living without God. I seek evidence but its as though the best I can get out of it is hmm that makes sense or wowthere really was a solomons temple. I can't tell my family cause they just start crying, so I'm stuck all day with this terrible pain. Please pray for me

I will do that. But so you know, I don't see any conflict between science and Christianity at all--and I've spent quite a lot of thought and research on both, so you know.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I take a psychoanalytic approach to Christianity, seeing it as archetypes to follow along that in general help someone thinking in helping them become a better person.

I don't believe in creationism, and I see God as the universe itself, as also being an archetype.

Jesus saved us. Fine, agreed.

That is a very interesting approach.
Do you have any sources to present for us to study on that? Thanks



.

 

[MCA]

I woke up this morning with so much anger I'm so so so upset that my faith was stripped from me most people have not gone in depth of evolution as I have my professor was like the Billy Graham of evolution. I know that everyone is trying to get me to reconcile evolution with God but I'm sorry it is not working I'm almost certainthat evolution is true and to me that is one of the most godless acts of this worldand very few American people believe in evolution and also believe in God I am sorry but that is true for good reason evolution is a very godless act its strips away all of the special love thatgod supposedly has for man . man in the Bible is supposed to be a unique creation a loving creation in the image of him and evolution is not that I am sorry it is not that and I am so upset beyond words that the university does their hardest to take God from man my life has been ruined because of it there is no longer any joy in my heart I dread the day I see my little nephew have to go to college I envy those that have not been educated with evolution they have not been corrupted there is no cure for me my heart has been convinced I have come to this conclusion because there is nothing that I am reading that is working that is getting me to believe anymore it is falling on deaf ears because of the conviction in my heart that evolution is true it is a godless act and proves that there is no God I am so so upset they had no right no right at all I was happy i was fine and now there is no purpose for my existence plain and easy I think people that do believe in God and that also believe in evolution are just trying to reconcile the two because they still want faith I look at old earth creationist an old earth believers on the internet and it sounds like baloney sorry for my cynicism. how is the earth billions of years old and life created from of primordial soup or thru the ocean and still be godsend . its not fair its not fair its not fair I hate the university I hate them with all my heart they have ruined my life taking away my joy I can no longer share the heartfelt emotion with my family with Christianity I can no longer Express a love forgod and of His angels a love for a higher being with my friends and family that are believers. I can no longer date a Christian woman I have to force myself to date a non religious woman they look likegarbage on the dating sites. I myself retain all of my Christian values and the chances of me finding a woman to marry me are very slim because of what I am. I'm a good valued good moraled good doing man with love in his heart but yet I've convinced that there is no God. If he's up there hesnot doing anything to help me. If demons are true they have and no matter what I reason I can't get myself to believe. God have mercy on my soul, do something, if you're listening do something

 

[theophilus40]

I'm almost certain that evolution is true

If you are only almost certain are you willing to examine the scientific evidence that shows that evolution isn't true? Here is a good place to start:

The 10 Best Evidences from Science that Confirm a Young Earth - Answers in Genesis

Here are two other very good sites:

Evolutionary Truth by Piltdown Superman

Science Against Evolution Official Home Page

God exists but so does Satan. People have an innate tendency to reject God's moral demands and when they do this they become open to Satan's influence on their minds. This is one of the results:

And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
(2 Corinthians 4:3-4 ESV)
​

He not only blinds people to the truth regarding salvation but he can blind the minds of scientists to keep them from seeing the evidence that God has created us. He can even influence Christians so that they accept evolutionary theories and try to reconcile them with the Bible.

You do understand one thing that many Christians don't; you must choose to believe in evolution or to believe the Bible. You can't believe both. Just be sure you examine all of the evidence so you can make the right choice.

 

[asiyreh]

I don't know why people get so upset about this whole thing. Look understand something, when a scientist does science, he needs to employ certain methodologies to aid him in whatever he trying to understand.

Most scientists adopt a philosophical view called methodological naturalism. That is to say while they have on their white coat. They try to understand the natural processes behind whatever mechanism they're trying to understand.

This methodology says nothing about their overall belief structure. When that scientist takes off that coat, there very well could be a believer underneath. Even dare I say a Christian. Take the inventor of the MRI scanner for example. Good Christian right there.

Now evolution is a very broad church in itself. What you're convinced is true is a process called natural selection. Let's look at the word itself - Natural selection. Selection is the key here.

What does a selector do, well it selects.

It has a range of options and selects from whatever is best suited to the environment. This is a good thing, if the animals didn't have this ability they'd all be dead, then what would we eat?

There's no doubt natural selection is true. Even the most ardent Young earther, if he understands his or her philosophical view correctly will believe in natural selection. You often hear them call it Microevolution. "Microevolution" if I can borrow the phrase is a fact. I could take you to a lab and show you it unfold before your very eyes.

Now the theory of descent, which is to say your great great great uncle twice removed and three times on your mom's side was an amoeba is an entirely different thing.

Ok so we've talked about our selector, let's put him over here for a second, we have another little process we need to look at now. Random mutation.
That is to say unguided changes occurring within the genome. Now understand something most (99.9%) of these mutations are simply junk or actively detrimental to the organism.

Now Mr. Selector isn't really a Mr. he's a dumb as a rock. Animals don't necessarily carry along all the best mutations if such a thing even exists. Mr selector doesn't know they are good or bad. But supposedly the animal most likely to survive is the one with the positive mutations and this gets carried over and on and on and on, till viola Richard Dawkins.

This is a huge series of assumptions and wild speculations which mathematically speaking cannot reasonably faced. See John Lennox

John Lennox | Science and Ethics

Most of the stars in the galaxy would have gone through their solar cycles and became black holes before this would have occurred. Yet the atheist has got about only 4 billion years for it to happen. At the very most 14.6 billion. Now that may seem like such a long time, but it's not; it frightenly short for the atheist.

You know I understand this concept. I really do. I think it's highly implausible, unless God is very active guiding this process all the way through.

I want to give you a new concept, don't knock it before you try it. It's the RTB(reasons to believe) model. Have your preverbal scientific cake and eat it.

Reasons To Believe : Where Modern Science & Faith Converge

Get familiar with this site, there's lots of resources in whatever format you prefer. This site is for the thinking Christian. Young earthers please avoid.

 

[theophilus40]

Most scientists adopt a philosophical view called methodological naturalism. That is to say while they have on their white coat. They try to understand the natural processes behind whatever mechanism they're trying to understand.

But in order to understand the process correctly they must know how it began.

A physician who has made a complete examination of a person without having been told his age could probably make an accurate estimate of it because of his knowledge of how the aging process works. But what would happen if he were to travel back in time and examine Adam and Eve immediately after they were created and was then asked to estimate their age? If he didn’t know they had been created directly he would assume they had been born as babies and base his estimate on how long it would take for them to reach their present state if they had undergone the normal aging process.

Scientists who study the universe face the same problem as the doctor in this example. To arrive at accurate conclusions they must know whether the universe was created or developed entirely as the result of natural processes.

 

[Billy Bayou]

OK, for all you who are losing faith. The Bible is the word of our God, Breathed by God, penned by men. It is so true that changing any wording or removing anything can alter its truth.

If it is true..... ALL of it is true. If any part of it is not true... use it for the floor in your bird cage.

Here are some things that make ME go hmmmm, and you can even ask your "Billy Graham" of evolution to explain...

1/ The duck billed platypus.... where in the world and what in the world did this creature evolve from? bird, mammal, poisonous claws???

2/ The fact that water contracts when cooled to 4 degrees Celsius then, if you cool it further, begins to expand... Now, don't write this off until you have explored the ramifications of this simple fact. If ice sank then lakes would freeze from the bottom up. Now how much is your lake going to thaw in the summer if it is 100 feet of solid ice in the winter, which is what it would be after even a few years of freezing from the bottom up. Would 1 foot melt? 6 inches, 3 feet.... And where would the fish go. The whole water cycle would be tied up in ICE. I could go on but I think you get my drift.

3/ The nucleus of an atom. Made of Protons (have mass and a charge) Neutrons ( have virtually no mass and no charge. QUESTION: what holds the neutron to the proton? What would happen if the Neutron left? (hint: KABOOOOM) Some scientist call this the "God" force that hold these two together and with out it....no universe. No one can explain this attraction other than,,, you guessed it GOD.

4/ Why is the moon the exact ( on universal proportions and relativity) the same size in our sky as the sun... Think now, they are millions of miles from each other, they are hugely different in size mass and state, yet we see them as EXACTLY the same size.. Is this not God saying "I AM HERE"

5/ Polaris, the north star, just happens to be EXACTLY positioned at the top of the center of the spin of the earth. Exactly north...hmmmm coincidence... nope!

6/ Trees... they breath in CO2 breath out O2. Humans,,, they breath in O2 breath out CO2 go figure.

The universe shouts "I am God, I am here"

You just need to look for it.

 

[lesliedellow]

Well, if evolution cannot be reconciled with the Christian conception of God, how is it that 95% of Christians outside of America manage to do just that?

You have spent too long being told that they are incompatible, and probably telling other people that they are incompatible, for you to now go back upon what has become too deeply burned into your brain. YECs do a grave disservice to Christianity, and you are a shining example of why. It isn't your professors who are to blame for your loss of faith - their job is only to teach you about established scientific facts - the blame lies with your former YEC colleagues.

 

[Billy Bayou]

Evolution Takes far more faith than Christianity. To believe all of this happened by accident, chance, whatever, takes more faith than an all powerful, all knowing, ever present God speaking it into existence for His own purpose.

My God can do anything and He did. He created this universe, the physics that drives it, the science that explains it, the math that governs it. It is all God.

When you close your eyes for the last time in this dimension, you will open them in His presence and then it will be too late.

 

[Christian-Catholic]

Evolution Takes far more faith than Christianity. To believe all of this happened by accident, chance, whatever, takes more faith than an all powerful, all knowing, ever present God speaking it into existence for His own purpose.

My God can do anything and He did. He created this universe, the physics that drives it, the science that explains it, the math that governs it. It is all God.

When you close your eyes for the last time in this dimension, you will open them in His presence and then it will be too late.

Correct Billy and most atheistic evolutionists dont ever mention that the odds for life occurring through random chance and chemical interactions are so huge that it is virtually zero. 13.7 billion years just isnt enough time for this to happen by chance.

MCA, why not try listening to experts on the other side of the coin
the uncommon descent forum is a great place to do this, plus you can interact there. Just because your professor is an expert, does it mean that there arent any experts on the opposing side? Of course not, and I would venture to say that your professor is a biased atheist 100% and his goal is not to try to teach biology but to strip you away from God. That tells me he has a hidden agenda.

Uncommon descent is a great place to start where the top intelligent design experts hang out. You can also interact with them there to see what the other side is saying. Uncommon Descent - Serving the Intelligent Design Community

take a look at this video by Doctor Stephen Meyer and then tell me that blind chance, natural selection and chemical interaction could be responsible for the information on DNA.
watch the whole 8 minute video but pay special attention to minutes 4 through 8 and you will completely understand just by this one point why neo darwinian evolution is a fairy tale.

Dr. Stephen Meyer: Chemistry/RNA World/crystal formation can't explain genetic information - YouTube

 

[Harry3142]

MCA-

When the author of Genesis wrote the creation stories, his intended readers were a people who had just left Egypt after spending many years there. And the religion of Egypt had its own creation epic, which predates Genesis by centuries:

www.theologywebsite.com/etext/egypt/creation.shtml

Note that in the egyptian creation epic the sun and moon were deities, the stars were the garment worn by Queen Nut, the surface of the earth was a deity, and even the atmosphere was a deity. In their pantheistic religion even the other species of animals represented deities, either singly, as in Horus, or in combination with other species, as in Isis and Osiris. There were well over 40 deities in the egyptian pantheon of gods and goddesses, and every one of them had a physical form.

The first creation story of Genesis (Genesis 1:1-2:3) methodically 'stripped' all of these deities of their divinity. The sun, moon and stars were nothing more than objects in the heavens which provided the people with light; the surface and atmosphere were nothing more than two aspects of an inanimate planet; and the other species of animals were nothing more than other species of animals, with no divine representation. The only being that the people were to accept as divine was a spirit that was over and above all that he had created, so no painting of him could ever be placed on a tomb wall, and no sculpture of him could ever be placed in a temple. IOW, it was a rebuttal and demythologization of another creation story the Hebrews had already learned.

The second creation story (Genesis 2:4-25), like the first, was also a rebuttal of egyptian mythology. Egypt had taught that man, along with the other animal species, was created on the last day, and then 'dumped' onto the surface of the planet. The second creation story separated man from the creation of all other animals. Only man had the breath of life breathed into him directly by God. Only man had a special place created where he could live comfortably (The Garden of Eden). And only man had the authority to name all of the other species of animals, a symbol of power over them in that era. As well, only man had a helpmate created for him in a unique manner.

Man also had another ability which no other specie has to this day: He had the ability to defy God and instead attain the knowledge of good and evil. Alone of all the species of animals man sees some actions as good, and so to be actively practised, while he sees other actions as evil, and so forbidden. At some time in prehistory man lost the innocence that at first he shared with all other species of animals, and the loss was a permanent one.

And this is described in allegorical form in Genesis 3. The story of God's forcing the serpent to crawl on its belly forever is blatant plagiarism. The original story was again rooted in egyptian mythology, with Ra, the sun god, battling Sebau, the serpent-fiend. But unlike Ra, who had to physically cause the crippling of Sebau so that he had to crawl on his belly, God but said the word and the deed was done. You can read the original story in the Egyptian Book of the Dead, about 5 paragraphs from the beginning of the book and under A Hymn to Ra:

www.africa.upenn.edu/Books/Papyrus_Ani.html

Would the people to whom Genesis was written have known what Moses was doing? Yes, they would have. They were familiar with the egyptian creation epic, as it was the foundation of the religion of their captors. They would also have been familiar with the story of Ra versus Sebau, since Ra was one of the major gods in the egyptian pantheon. So they would have accepted the stories as Moses intended, namely, as the means whereby he taught them that they were to give credit to one God, and only one, for all that now exists, while recognizing that God can never be described in physical form. They would also have seen the story of The Fall of Man as the means whereby Moses described that at a certain point in prehistory man lost the innocence that hitherto he had shared with all of the other species of animals, and from that point forward man has had the knowledge of good and evil, and has suffered for it.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Some of you may have heard my story but in a nutshell I lost my faith in college mostly due to a biology course I took. I have developed a very scientific/naturalistic perspective of the universe and our origins. As a former Christian, I am conflicted with being this way. To the point that I cannot listen/read/converse with scientific teachings because, well, it makes sense to me. And as I have stated in a couple other threads, I don't want to be an atheist. I've read lots of apologetic material, the Bible, a few priests/pastors, and this way of mind I have remains. I am wanting to know of any scientifically minded Christians out there who have found God. How did you balance the two. In other words, how does it work out for you? What are your thoughts? How do you cope?

Hello. I am one such person who went from Atheism to Theism to Christianity BECAUSE of the real scientific evidence for our Creator. The following might help you and i hope so :

What i found appealing about atheism when I considered myself 'an atheist' :

1. Nearly all my friends were atheists so i had much commaraderie .
2. If there were no binding absolute moral laws to live by, then it
offered great freedom of lifestyle choices (which i capitalized on) .
3. No one was in ultimate authority over me.
4. I wasnt owned by anyone higher than self which led to great
autonomy.
5. I was at the center of the Universe, figuratively speaking .
6. All my Teachers in school (whom i greatly respected and
enjoyed) taught atheistic ideologies / worldview .
7. As Evolutionist Julian Huxley said in a TV Interview :' Having no personal Creator
(viz.God) , coincided with my sexual mores' .

What I found convincing about atheism , at the time :

1. I looked upon my Teachers and School Text Books as virtually
infallable and thus a very reliable truth source , so i accepted all
they taught without question .
2. Atheisms idelogies and constructs... from a worldview and from
sociology.... best fit in with my daily lifestyle choices and
philosophies for having fun.

What made me change my views about atheism :

1. Some atheistic ideologies were impossible to live out , truthfully
and without being hypocritical (ie: moral relativism) .
2. I became aware that the atheistic ideologies as represented by our
American Culture , were destructive and dangerous to people....and
this concerned me as i was getting deeper into them.
3. I found it took an incredible amount of faith to believe in
atheistic origins of the universe and first life on earth (psuedo-science)
4. I found that an atheistic material universe (materialism) is not
capable of things like reason, logic, truth, love, freewill .
5. I found there are no logical atheistic explanations for the 150+
razor precise Life Enabling Constants and Physics Constants
(anthropics) which have been scientifically discovered and are
measurable to (in some cases) a 120th decimal point critical tolerance
otherwise our Cosmos is not here and niether are we. I could accept a
few by coincidental chance, but not over 150 which are all dependent
on each other.
6. I discovered in myself that I wanted to follow the truth
regardless of where it led, instead of patronizing myself into
following something I had no more confidence in.
7. I heavily investigated Theism from a scientific standpoint
including the remarkable design and engineering of things ...and
concluded that it is absurd to think it all just happened by chance
without a shred of purpose or reason.
8. I heavily investigated Christianity as well as all other major
world religions, and discovered the New Testament of the Bible to
offer more accurate historical evidences for Christ , his
ressurection, and what he claimed about himself....that it was very
compelling. I read about THE worlds most famous expert on Court of
Law evidential techniques who put the New Testament to a very
stringent test, who traded in his agnosticism to become a Christ
Follower based purely on the scientific and historical
evidences ...and I found this very compelling.
9. I discovered that modern scientific discoveries are proving the
Bible correct and are leading to a personal theistic Creator which the
Bible describes in great detail.


List of prominent Evolutionists who denounce Evolution ! :


The only reason macro evolution and abiogenesis is hanging on by a thread is because the general public would loose faith in the scientific community , and, theyd have to re-write all the school textbooks . When Evolutionists themselves speak out against their field, you know its been fallacious all along :

" It is therefore a MATTER OF FAITH on the part of the biologist that
biogenesis (evolution) did occur and he can choose whatever method of
biogenesis happens to suit him personally ; the evidence for what did
happen is not available" --- Evolutionist Prof. G.A. Kerkut of the
University of Southampton. Source : Implications of Evolution. London.
Pergamon Press, 1960, page 150.



" The more one studies paleontology, the more certain one becomes that
evolution is based on FAITH ALONE" -- Evolutionist Prof. T.L. Moor .
Origins ? The Banner of Truth Trust, 1988 page 22.



" We Palenontologists have said that the history of life supports (the
story of gradual adaptive change) , all the while really knowing that it
does not" -- Dr. Niles Eldredge. Darwin on Trial. Regnery Gateway,
1991, page 59.


" The record of reckless speculation of human origins is so astonishing
that it is legitimate to ask whether much science is yet to be found in
this field at all" -- Evolutionist Dr. Solly Zuckerman. Darwin on
Trial. 1991. page 82.

From an article in Science Digest Special---

" Scientists who utterly reject Evolution may be one of our fastest
growing controversial minorities ... Many of the scientists supporting
this posiiton hold impressive credentials in science" . -- Educators
Against Darwin. winter 1979, page 94



" I believe that one day the Darwinnian myth will be ranked the
greatest deciet in the history of science "--- Prof. Soren Lovtrup,
Embriologist. Darwinism : The Refutation of a Myth. 1987. page 422.

" The more i examine the Universe and the details of its architecture,
the more evidence i find that the Universe in some sense must have known
we were coming"--- Prof. Freeman Dyson, Physicist from Princeton Univ.
'Disturbing the Universe' . 1979. page 250.



" The more man is imbued with the ordered regularity of all events, the
firmer becomes his conviction that there is no room left by the side of
this ordered regularity for causes of a different nature (than a Creator)"
-- Albert Einstein. His LIfe and Times. page 286.

And finally, the bottom line from an "agnostic" Astronomer (and my
favorite) ----

" For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason,
the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of
ignorance, he is about to conquer the highest peak and as he pulls
himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of Theologians who
have been sitting there for centuries reading Genesis 1:1 : In the
Beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth" --- agnostic Prof. Robert
Jastrow founder of Nasa's Goddard Institute. His book, 'God and the
Astronomers. page 116.


My absolutely favorite book on Christian Apologetics from a modern science viewpoint based on reality : I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist: Norman L. Geisler, Frank Turek, David Limbaugh: 9781581345612: Amazon.com: Books. Get a used copy from www.amazon.com cheap. Best book, hands down on exposing the psuedo science we were all raised on in secular school..and why the Christian Faith is absolutely correct from a scientific standpoint.

PM Me if you want to chat. Dave.

 

[TheyCallMeDavid]

Some of you may have heard my story but in a nutshell I lost my faith in college mostly due to a biology course I took. I have developed a very scientific/naturalistic perspective of the universe and our origins. As a former Christian, I am conflicted with being this way. To the point that I cannot listen/read/converse with scientific teachings because, well, it makes sense to me. And as I have stated in a couple other threads, I don't want to be an atheist. I've read lots of apologetic material, the Bible, a few priests/pastors, and this way of mind I have remains. I am wanting to know of any scientifically minded Christians out there who have found God. How did you balance the two. In other words, how does it work out for you? What are your thoughts? How do you cope?

Hello. I am one such person who went from Atheism to Theism to Christianity BECAUSE of the real scientific evidence for our Creator. The following might help you and i hope so :

What i found appealing about atheism when I considered myself 'an atheist' :

1. Nearly all my friends were atheists so i had much commaraderie .
2. If there were no binding absolute moral laws to live by, then it
offered great freedom of lifestyle choices (which i capitalized on) .
3. No one was in ultimate authority over me.
4. I wasnt owned by anyone higher than self which led to great
autonomy.
5. I was at the center of the Universe, figuratively speaking .
6. All my Teachers in school (whom i greatly respected and
enjoyed) taught atheistic ideologies / worldview .
7. As Evolutionist Julian Huxley said in a TV Interview :' Having no personal Creator
(viz.God) , coincided with my sexual mores' .

What I found convincing about atheism , at the time :

1. I looked upon my Teachers and School Text Books as virtually
infallable and thus a very reliable truth source , so i accepted all
they taught without question .
2. Atheisms idelogies and constructs... from a worldview and from
sociology.... best fit in with my daily lifestyle choices and
philosophies for having fun.

What made me change my views about atheism :

1. Some atheistic ideologies were impossible to live out , truthfully
and without being hypocritical (ie: moral relativism) .
2. I became aware that the atheistic ideologies as represented by our
American Culture , were destructive and dangerous to people....and
this concerned me as i was getting deeper into them.
3. I found it took an incredible amount of faith to believe in
atheistic origins of the universe and first life on earth (psuedo-science)
4. I found that an atheistic material universe (materialism) is not
capable of things like reason, logic, truth, love, freewill .
5. I found there are no logical atheistic explanations for the 150+
razor precise Life Enabling Constants and Physics Constants
(anthropics) which have been scientifically discovered and are
measurable to (in some cases) a 120th decimal point critical tolerance
otherwise our Cosmos is not here and niether are we. I could accept a
few by coincidental chance, but not over 150 which are all dependent
on each other.
6. I discovered in myself that I wanted to follow the truth
regardless of where it led, instead of patronizing myself into
following something I had no more confidence in.
7. I heavily investigated Theism from a scientific standpoint
including the remarkable design and engineering of things ...and
concluded that it is absurd to think it all just happened by chance
without a shred of purpose or reason.
8. I heavily investigated Christianity as well as all other major
world religions, and discovered the New Testament of the Bible to
offer more accurate historical evidences for Christ , his
ressurection, and what he claimed about himself....that it was very
compelling. I read about THE worlds most famous expert on Court of
Law evidential techniques who put the New Testament to a very
stringent test, who traded in his agnosticism to become a Christ
Follower based purely on the scientific and historical
evidences ...and I found this very compelling.
9. I discovered that modern scientific discoveries are proving the
Bible correct and are leading to a personal theistic Creator which the
Bible describes in great detail.


List of prominent Evolutionists who denounce Evolution ! :


The only reason macro evolution and abiogenesis is hanging on by a thread is because the general public would loose faith in the scientific community , and, theyd have to re-write all the school textbooks . When Evolutionists themselves speak out against their field, you know its been fallacious all along :

" It is therefore a MATTER OF FAITH on the part of the biologist that
biogenesis (evolution) did occur and he can choose whatever method of
biogenesis happens to suit him personally ; the evidence for what did
happen is not available" --- Evolutionist Prof. G.A. Kerkut of the
University of Southampton. Source : Implications of Evolution. London.
Pergamon Press, 1960, page 150.



" The more one studies paleontology, the more certain one becomes that
evolution is based on FAITH ALONE" -- Evolutionist Prof. T.L. Moor .
Origins ? The Banner of Truth Trust, 1988 page 22.



" We Palenontologists have said that the history of life supports (the
story of gradual adaptive change) , all the while really knowing that it
does not" -- Dr. Niles Eldredge. Darwin on Trial. Regnery Gateway,
1991, page 59.


" The record of reckless speculation of human origins is so astonishing
that it is legitimate to ask whether much science is yet to be found in
this field at all" -- Evolutionist Dr. Solly Zuckerman. Darwin on
Trial. 1991. page 82.

From an article in Science Digest Special---

" Scientists who utterly reject Evolution may be one of our fastest
growing controversial minorities ... Many of the scientists supporting
this posiiton hold impressive credentials in science" . -- Educators
Against Darwin. winter 1979, page 94



" I believe that one day the Darwinnian myth will be ranked the
greatest deciet in the history of science "--- Prof. Soren Lovtrup,
Embriologist. Darwinism : The Refutation of a Myth. 1987. page 422.

" The more i examine the Universe and the details of its architecture,
the more evidence i find that the Universe in some sense must have known
we were coming"--- Prof. Freeman Dyson, Physicist from Princeton Univ.
'Disturbing the Universe' . 1979. page 250.



" The more man is imbued with the ordered regularity of all events, the
firmer becomes his conviction that there is no room left by the side of
this ordered regularity for causes of a different nature (than a Creator)"
-- Albert Einstein. His LIfe and Times. page 286.

And finally, the bottom line from an "agnostic" Astronomer (and my
favorite) ----

" For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason,
the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of
ignorance, he is about to conquer the highest peak and as he pulls
himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of Theologians who
have been sitting there for centuries reading Genesis 1:1 : In the
Beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth" --- agnostic Prof. Robert
Jastrow founder of Nasa's Goddard Institute. His book, 'God and the
Astronomers. page 116.


My absolutely favorite book on Christian Apologetics from a modern science viewpoint based on reality : http://www.amazon.com/Dont-Have-Eno...rds=i+dont+have+enough+faith+to+be+an+atheist. Get a used copy from www.amazon.com cheap. Best book, hands down on exposing the psuedo science we were all raised on in secular school..and why the Christian Faith is absolutely correct from a scientific standpoint.

PM Me if you want to chat. Dave.