Science vs. Evolution

[AV1611VET]

What happened to the dinosaurs and why are their bones never found together with modern animal and human bones?

You know what you guys remind me of, Tanzanos?

You guys are the spitting-image of those in John 9, who interrogated some poor man who had been cured of his blindness by Jesus, Himself.

Three times this poor soul was interrogated -- even his parents -- by those demanding to know how in the world he could see.

They tried to explain it was a miracle, but it was water off a duck's back.

Finally, they concluded:

John 9:34 They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out.

John 9 should be required reading for every scientist.

Sorry, Tan, I can't answer your questions -- I don't speak technoblo.

 

[Nathan Poe]

Sorry, Tan, I can't answer your questions -- I don't speak technoblo.

So let's give you something you can respond to:

2915

 

[Cabal]

You know what you guys remind me of, Tanzanos?

*rant*

I think God might want to reconsider those staffing his embassy.

 

[tanzanos]

With what as replacements?

Yes-men who will bow to your deity (mother nature)?

I don't think so.

Mother nature is not a deity. Besides are you denouncing one of God's greatest creations?

"All things wise and wonderful; All creatures great and small".

I would like to fill in the opening for God's ambassador. After all almost no preacher or priest actually believes in God anyway. At the least I will not be in it for the money!

 

[Cabal]

With what as replacements?

Yes-men who will bow to your deity (mother nature)?

I don't think so.

Not necessarily (apart from the fact that this is a total misrepresentation of what we do, obviously).

Just a less whiny diplomatic corps will do, who don't resort to a persecution complex in the face of one simple question.

Being a bit more effective might help also, given that their mandate is draw people to us - and we all know how effective creationism is at doing the exact OPPOSITE of that.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

If you were to find King David's bones today, I believe you would assume he was a Neanderthal.

God judged His people at times by subjecting them to bone-altering pestilences.

Such was the case with Jacob ...

Ge 32:25 And when he saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob's thigh was out of joint, as he wrestled with him.

... and David, who died of some strange disease (Psalm 38).

So David had a strange disease that morphed his skeleton, changing the shape of his skull, changing his pelvis and doubling the thickness of his arm and leg bones.

These heavily built and muscled people had a brain volume of 1200 to 1800 cubic centimetres, equal to and even larger than modern human brains. Neanderthals were much more muscular than are modern humans - bulking about 30 percent more in weight. Both their skull (Harvati, 2003) and body morphology are different to archaic and modern H. sapiens morphology (see image of human and Neanderthal skull from Hunterian Museum ). Their faces showed a particular adaptation, with the midface projecting and ending in large front teeth. The mid-facial projection and large nasal sinuses can be seen in Neanderthal skulls from children e.g. La Quina 18 (from a eight year old) and Teshik Tash 1 (from a nine year old) and Le Moustier, a 15 year old. (Neanderthal skull - front view) (Neanderthal skull - oblique view) (Neanderthal skull - side view) (Neanderthal jaws) ©1 .
Neanderthal skull reconstructions provide further evidence that the creatures were a separate species to modern humans. Distinctive Neanderthal skull features were established in early infancy. Physical features in skull development, such as the Neanderthal's receding chin and low, sloping forehead, were fixed by the age of two years. Their hyoid bones, involved in speech, were basically identical to humans. Neanderthal inner ear morphology is now being studied and differences are being found to the human inner ear They had heavy brow ridges, a low sloping forehead and a very large nose. Their teeth usually showed distinct wear from some type of repeated use ( see image from Ramanank ). They lacked the projecting chin of modern humans. Their build suggested the possibility of cold adaptations, being very robust or stockily built with the lower legs and forearms short. A similar feature is found in modern-human cold-adapted races, such as Eskimos, and serves to reduce heat loss through the extremities. They must have been very strong and powerfully muscled. Markings on the leg bones show that they squatted habitually.
Strong evidence for the difference between humans and Neanderthals can be found in the morphology of the Neanderthal pelvis, which is different to a human pelvis. There is a different relationship of the pelvis to the hip joints and other features such as the iliac blades (Aiello & Dean, 1990).
A list of distinctive Neanderthal features is as follows:

• Large round " apical tufts " to the finer tips;
• Robust finger bones;
• Enlarged rib cage, with barrel-chested build;
• Stout, bowed femoral shaft;
• Dorsal sulcus on scapula for more muscle attachments;
• Relatively short, bowed scapula;
• Long pelvic pubis (superior pubic ramus);
• Relatively short tibia and fibula (lower leg);
• Low forehead with occipital bun (chignon, occipital torus) & projecting mid-face ;
• Lack of chin (mental eminence);
• Long clavicle and large shoulder joint;
• Large and thick patella;
• occipital depression ( suprainiac fossa );
• supraorbital torus;
• A mastoid crest located behind the external auditory meatus ;
• Absence of a canine fossa;
• Presence of a retromolar space;

Neanderthals (Homo sapiens neanderthalensis).


Physical antropologists can tell Neanderthal remains from modern humans, even modern humans who suffered from "strange diseases". Now we know there are also significant genetic differences even though Neanderthals did interbreed with modern human populations, at least those outside of Africa

Comparison of the Neandertal genome to human and chimpanzee genetic sequences have led to some clues about recent human evolution. Neandertals “were not genetically very distinct from us,” says Pääbo. For example, the researchers were able to find only 78 proteins in which humans carry a different amino acid than is found in Neandertals and chimpanzees. That means that few changes in proteins have taken place in the past few hundred thousand years of human evolution. Researchers don’t know yet whether the changes in the proteins alter their function or give humans some survival advantage.

But some parts of the human genome clearly do produce an evolutionary advantage, the researchers say. Again, the team compared the human genome to those of Neandertals and chimpanzees and identified places where humans differ. If nothing of importance had happened in human evolution since humans and Neandertals diverged, such changes would be spread evenly across the genome, Green says. Instead, the researchers found large swaths of the genome where humans have distinct changes not found in Neandertals or chimpanzees. The team identified 212 such regions where “selective sweeps” were likely to have happened, many of which include genes involved in brain function. The researchers don’t yet know what the changes are or how they produce a selective advantage.

Neandertal Genome Yields Evidence Of Interbreeding With Humans - Science News

So please tell us which of Noah's grandson gave rise to the Neanderthals

 

[AV1611VET]

Mother nature is not a deity.

Really?

A tree can be made into a deity; stone can be made into a deity; a volcano can be made into a deity; the weather can be made into a deity; constellations can be made into a deity; but mother nature as a whole is somehow exempt?

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

The non-avian dinosaurs died out due to the [new] polar climatology that appeared after the Flood.

So every single one of these dinosaurs died off right after the flood
List of dinosaurs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But wasn't the purpose of the ark to keep every living thing alive?

6:18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.

6:19 And of every living thing of all flesh, two of every sort shalt thou bring into the ark, to keep them alive with thee; they shall be male and female.

6:20 Of fowls after their kind, and of cattle after their kind, of every creeping thing of the earth after his kind, two of every sort shall come unto thee, to keep them alive.

7:1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.

7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

7:3 Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.

8:17 Bring forth with thee every living thing that is with thee, of all flesh, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth; that they may breed abundantly in the earth, and be fruitful, and multiply upon the earth.

Now you say the dinosaurs died off right after the flood. They weren't fruitful and didn't breed abundantly and multiply on the earth. Did God blow it here? Why put them on the ark to come out in a world they can't survive in?

Why did so many animals whose fossils are found in Triassic, Jurassic and Cretaceous layers die out after the flood? Why did the Permian Pelycosaurs like Dimetrodon die after the flood?
Introduction to the Pelycosaurs
Did God blow it with them too?

How did so many modern tropical animals survive this polar climatology after the flood that killed the dinosaurs and pelycosaurs?

 

[AV1611VET]

Being a bit more effective might help also, given that their mandate is draw people to us - and we all know how effective creationism is at doing the exact OPPOSITE of that.

According to some of you, you were already "there" at one time, but had questions your respective pastors couldn't answer -- so you left; and judging from the responses I get when I answer those questions, I'm sure you 'put him on ignore' long before you left him behind.

For the rest of you, all we have to do is believe Matthew wrote the book of Matthew, and we're already on your list of the intellectually challenged.

And for us to believe we shouldn't be out there burning witches? Whooo -- look out! That makes the hypo list!

We're right up there with the kooks who believe Pi is 3.14159265358979323846...

 

[AV1611VET]

So David had a strange disease that morphed his skeleton, changing the shape of his skull, changing his pelvis and doubling the thickness of his arm and leg bones.

Did you read the 38th Psalm?

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

Did you read the 38th Psalm?

Right is says there is no soundness in his flesh and he is loosing his strength, and yet it is clear that Neanderthals were stronger than modern humans. The idea that a strange disease would morph a modern human skeleton into that of a Neanderthal is absurd Here is the list of differences again and there are the genetic differences as well.

• Large round " apical tufts " to the finger tips;
• Robust finger bones;
• Enlarged rib cage, with barrel-chested build;
• Stout, bowed femoral shaft;
• Dorsal sulcus on scapula for more muscle attachments;
• Relatively short, bowed scapula;
• Long pelvic pubis (superior pubic ramus);
• Relatively short tibia and fibula (lower leg);
• Low forehead with occipital bun (chignon, occipital torus) & projecting mid-face ;
• Lack of chin (mental eminence);
• Long clavicle and large shoulder joint;
• Large and thick patella;
• occipital depression ( suprainiac fossa );
• supraorbital torus;
• A mastoid crest located behind the external auditory meatus ;
• Absence of a canine fossa;
• Presence of a retromolar space;

So tell us which of Noah's grandsons gave rise to these genetically distinct Neanderthals and how that worked when all the people on earth came from one highly inbred family.

 

[Cassiterides]

Since you are YEC maybe you call tell us which of Noah's grandsons gave rise the the Neanderthals.

I don't think this is relevant, since we know Neanderthal traits exist in modern day people, for example the Munda of India. In fact this is something evolutionists have admitted themselves.

The evolutionist Charleton Coon for example in his book Living Races of Man (1965) wrote of the Munda tribe in Chota Nappur Hills, India who looked like Neanderthals: ''[SIZE=-1]The heavy supra orbital torus (eyebrow ridges) [/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]common to Neanderthal skulls does not necessarily [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]mean that they all looked ugly or primitive.''[/SIZE]

 

[driewerf]

Really?

A tree can be made into a deity; stone can be made into a deity; a volcano can be made into a deity; the weather can be made into a deity; constellations can be made into a deity; but mother nature as a whole is somehow exempt?

People have worshipped all those things, and even stranger things. But that doesn't turn them into deitties. Their is/are no god/gods. So no, nature isn't a deity.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

I don't think this is relevant, since we know Neanderthal traits exist in modern day people, for example the Munda of India. In fact this is something evolutionists have admitted themselves.

The evolutionist Charleton Coon for example in his book Living Races of Man (1965) wrote of the Munda tribe in Chota Nappur Hills, India who looked like Neanderthals: ''[SIZE=-1]The heavy supra orbital torus (eyebrow ridges) [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]common to Neanderthal skulls does not necessarily [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]mean that they all looked ugly or primitive.''[/SIZE]

Do you have any references less than 30 or 40 years old? Here again is the list of physical differences between Neanderthals and modern humans.

• Large round " apical tufts " to the finger tips;
• Robust finger bones;
• Enlarged rib cage, with barrel-chested build;
• Stout, bowed femoral shaft;
• Dorsal sulcus on scapula for more muscle attachments;
• Relatively short, bowed scapula;
• Long pelvic pubis (superior pubic ramus);
• Relatively short tibia and fibula (lower leg);
• Low forehead with occipital bun (chignon, occipital torus) & projecting mid-face ;
• Lack of chin (mental eminence);
• Long clavicle and large shoulder joint;
• Large and thick patella;
• occipital depression ( suprainiac fossa );
• supraorbital torus;
• A mastoid crest located behind the external auditory meatus ;
• Absence of a canine fossa;
• Presence of a retromolar space;

And something on the genetics
Neandertal Genome Yields Evidence Of Interbreeding With Humans - Science News

Again, the team compared the human genome to those of Neandertals and chimpanzees and identified places where humans differ. If nothing of importance had happened in human evolution since humans and Neandertals diverged, such changes would be spread evenly across the genome, Green says. Instead, the researchers found large swaths of the genome where humans have distinct changes not found in Neandertals or chimpanzees. The team identified 212 such regions where “selective sweeps” were likely to have happened, many of which include genes involved in brain function. The researchers don’t yet know what the changes are or how they produce a selective advantage.

It is clear that while Neanderthals were closely related to modern humans, apparently close enough for interbreeding, there are significant differences in anatomy and genetics. So if these are post flood fossils, either Neanderthals were on the ark or they are descended from Noah's small family. How did a small inbred family give rise to such different people so quickly?

 

[AV1611VET]

So tell us which of Noah's grandsons gave rise to these genetically distinct Neanderthals and how that worked when all the people on earth came from one highly inbred family.

All 16 of them did.

How about you tell me, if these Neanderthals were so superior to us, why we even showed up then?

 

[Cassiterides]

Do you have any references less than 30 or 40 years old? Here again is the list of physical differences between Neanderthals and modern humans.

• Large round " apical tufts " to the finger tips;
• Robust finger bones;
• Enlarged rib cage, with barrel-chested build;
• Stout, bowed femoral shaft;
• Dorsal sulcus on scapula for more muscle attachments;
• Relatively short, bowed scapula;
• Long pelvic pubis (superior pubic ramus);
• Relatively short tibia and fibula (lower leg);
• Low forehead with occipital bun (chignon, occipital torus) & projecting mid-face ;
• Lack of chin (mental eminence);
• Long clavicle and large shoulder joint;
• Large and thick patella;
• occipital depression ( suprainiac fossa );
• supraorbital torus;
• A mastoid crest located behind the external auditory meatus ;
• Absence of a canine fossa;
• Presence of a retromolar space;

Yes, and a lot of these things can be found in certain populations.

So if these are post flood fossils, either Neanderthals were on the ark or they are descended from Noah's small family. How did a small inbred family give rise to such different people so quickly?

We are provided the evidence in the Book of Jasher, Chapter 9 relating to the Tower of Babel. All the races and physical variation stems from there.

Book of Jasher, Chapter 9

A video i found where a guy has summed this up:

YouTube - Neanderthal Man and the Tower of Babel Link

 

[AV1611VET]

People have worshipped all those things, and even stranger things. But that doesn't turn them into deitties. Their is/are no god/gods. So no, nature isn't a deity.

Yes -- technically there is only one God, Elohim; but His creation can be raised to the level of worship, which is what nature does by supplanting God on the throne.

Romans 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

 

[AV1611VET]

How did a small inbred family give rise to such different people so quickly?

Once again, God placed "strange diseases" on the people as a judgment against them.

I have no doubt that some of these were directed at their skeletal structures.

In addition, don't forget that there was a human/angel hybrid on the earth prior to the Flood.

 

[Frumious Bandersnatch]

YouTube - PROVEN! LIES - DECEIT - FRAUD - The Dilemma of Modern Evolution!

A little more on this deceptive creationist video. They claim that the geologic column is only hypothetical and the talk of faunal succession and index fossils is deceitful. As usual there are the ones being deceitful.

They blow off index fossils

Index fossil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

but if index fossils did not provide correct stratigraphy they would not be so useful for oil and mineral exploration
Geology: petroleum geology, rocks fossils, index fossils

Fossils actually give the age of the rock and also great deal of information could be deduce regarding their mode of deposition whether shallow marine, deep marine or continental and more. For example; Plantic foramnifers are float freely on the sea level an therefore they could be any where on the slope of shelf of the sea.

On the contrary benthic forams are attached to the sea bottom and they do not float like planktic formas. Benthic do not live in the deeper waters. Now take a case if you get a rock with higher number of benthic fossils than planktic fossils you may interprate that rock was deposited in very shallow marine conditions.If planktic are more than benthic forams will give you a realtively deeper marine conditions.

In petroleum exploration the biggest help what we normally seek through micropaleontology is to determine the precise age in outcrop or in the drilling well or to determine the correct stratigraphic position with the help of microfossils. If we are aware that that sediments we are dealing with are marine in origin we will use marine fossils for age determination. In case the sediments are continental, fossils belonging to continental environment will be used for age determination..

Formanifers and Ostracods are the two commonly used and important fossil groups in sedimantray and stratigraphic analysis in petroleum exploration. Nannofossils are very minute fossils us to be viewed through Electron Microscope may also be good age and strigraphic deterministic fossils.

Regarding the geologic column it is true that in most places there are unconformities resulting from periods where there was no deposition. However, there are several places around the world where the entire column can be found.
The Entire Geologic Column in North Dakota

Their claim that reference to faunal succession, the geologic column and index fossils is deceitful is itself deceitful and just another example of young earth creationist distortion.

Creationists must try to deny the geologic column and faunal sucession because they have no explanation for either. They can't even tell us which geological layers are flood deposits, which are preflood and which are post flood. Of course the reason they can't do this is because there was no global flood.

 

[AV1611VET]

Creationists must try to deny the geologic column and faunal sucession because they have no explanation for either.

No, creationists don't have to 'deny the geologic column and faunal succession', unless we want to try and impress you guys with more "knowledge" than you guys have on the subject.

Then we get [rightfully] vegomaticked and end up wondering why no one is taking us seriously.