Science education vs religious indoctrination

[Delphiki]

Found this on the tube... It's in two halves - Carl Sagan visits a class room, then a scene from Jesus Camp. I've seen both of the originals on Netflix (Sagan's Cosmos and Jesus Camp)

Very thought provoking when you see the contrast in emotions and intellect.

YouTube - Teaching Children - Carl Sagan (Science) vs (Religion) Jesus Camp

 

[Hespera]

hard to watch a child abuse film

 

[Doveaman]

hard to watch a child abuse film

Yeah. That's why I found the first half of the film so sickening. Poor kids.

 

[AV1611VET]

Yeah. That's why I found the first half of the film so sickening. Poor kids.

Go out in the parking lot after school and what will you see?

Pictures of IO and Europa laying around in the parking lot.

Some might go home and stick them on the refrigerator, but they'll be forgotten in no time.

 

[Delphiki]

Yeah. That's why I found the first half of the film so sickening. Poor kids.

I can tell you're saying that to get a rise. Try to be a bit more mature, would you?

If you really are serious, I'd like to know what part you found sickening in specific - pictures of planets? the moon of Mars?

Yeah, you know how I know you lie to yourself everyday?

 

[jacks]

It is always enlightening to see an objective portrayal of two divergent world views. It is evident that every effort was made to remove any bias from the selection and editing of these videos.

Carl Sagan (and by inference science) all good. Jesus camp (and by inference religion) all bad. It's simple. Life is black and white. No need to think.

 

[Doveaman]

I can tell you're saying that to get a rise. Try to be a bit more mature, would you?

If you really are serious, I'd like to know what part you found sickening in specific - pictures of planets? the moon of Mars?

The intent of the first half of the film is one arrogant scientist trying to make those in the second half look stupid while making himself look smart. And I suspect that is your intent too. That's what is sickening about it. I pity the kids who are fed this nonsense by a bunch of arrogant star gazers.

 

[Gishin]

Yeah. That's why I found the first half of the film so sickening. Poor kids.

 

[Gishin]

The intent of the first half of the film is one arrogant scientist trying to make those in the second half look stupid while making himself look smart. And I suspect that is your intent too. That's what is sickening about it. I pity the kids who are fed this nonsense by a bunch of arrogant star gazers.

It's sad how people equate intellect with arrogance, and hold stupidity and ignorance as a virtue.

 

[AV1611VET]

It is always enlightening to see an objective portrayal of two divergent world views. It is evident that every effort was made to remove any bias from the selection and editing of these videos.

Carl Sagan (and by inference science) all good. Jesus camp (and by inference religion) all bad. It's simple. Life is black and white. No need to think.

The 'Jesus Camp' side is fiction, bro -- it's a promotion for a movie.

 

[AV1611VET]

The intent of the first half of the film is one arrogant scientist trying to make those in the second half look stupid while making himself look smart.

And using children to do it. Did you notice how the tenor of the film changed after he mentions the vastness of the universe? It even looked like that one kid was going to cry. Watch the film again muted (no music) and see what happens.

 

[Gishin]

The 'Jesus Camp' side is fiction, bro -- it's a promotion for a movie.

No it's not, it's a documentary of a real charismatic ministry.

Jesus Camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Gishin]

And using children to do it. Did you notice how the tenor of the film changed after he mentions the vastness of the universe? It even looked like that one kid was going to cry. Watch the film again muted (no music) and see what happens.

YouTube - Brain Washing ( Jesus Camp ''Highlights'' )

 

[AV1611VET]

You're the reason why I dislike religion. The ridiculous bias, the distorted world view, the dishonesty you exhibit is almost beyond belief. Thanks for reinforcing my opinion and moving me further away from your belief system.

Peter

But when you see your contemporaries call me everything but what's in my profile, your 'reasons' suddenly go into abeyance, don't they?

Honesty, to you guys, is selective -- isn't it?

 

[Matariki]

I would rather be in the science class thats for sure. But the title 'religion vs science' thing doesn't really make sense to me, I grew up with my father (who's also Christian and has degrees in science) teaching me science right from the beginning, he taught me and is still teaching me today what it means to have an open mind and to be a free thinker (not to be bound by arrogance and to be open to be possibilities of being wrong).

To be honest I always hated Christian camps (or at least the ones I attended as a youth) which were similar to the one featured in the video. I would always think to myself "We have a message based on emotion, great. Wheres the logic?" It was always a 'leave your brain at the door and be hypnotized by some guy running up and down the stage shouting some message at you with surreal, ambient music in the background' experience.

Here in this video we have two extremes both trying to demonize and prove each other wrong. Although watching those children in the camp segment made me recoil in disgust, that is so wrong on so many levels what those preachers are doing. Hespera is right, this is emotional abuse and manipulation. I could be wrong, but this isn't the work of the holy spirit that we are witnessing. I hope the second segment is fake, I really do.

 

[AV1611VET]

I would rather be in the science class thats for sure. But the title 'religion vs science' thing doesn't really make sense to me, I grew up with my father (who's also Christian and has degrees in science) teaching me science right from the beginning, he taught me and is still teaching me today what it means to have an open mind and to be a free thinker (not to be bound by arrogance and to be open to be possibilities of being wrong).

To be honest I always hated Christian camps (or at least the ones I attended as a youth) which were similar to the one featured in the video. I would always think to myself "We have a message based on emotion, great. Wheres the logic?" It was always a 'leave your brain at the door and be hypnotized by some guy running up and down the stage shouting some message at you with surreal, ambient music in the background' experience.

Here in this video we have two extremes both trying to demonize and prove each other wrong. Although watching those children in the camp segment made me recoil in disgust, that is so wrong on so many levels what those preachers are doing. Hespera is right, this is emotional abuse and manipulation. I could be wrong, but this isn't the work of the holy spirit that we are witnessing. I hope the second segment is fake, I really do.

I too, think the second half of that was disgusting.

I was hoping it was fake, but evidently it isn't; albeit the whole program wasn't shown, so we don't have the whole picture.

And for the record, Hespera called it 'child abuse' -- not emotional & manipulation.

 

[plindboe]

But when you see your contemporaries call me everything but what's in my profile, your 'reasons' suddenly go into abeyance, don't they?

Honesty, to you guys, is selective -- isn't it?

Please stop acting like I read any of your discussions. Leave me out of that lunacy. I don't care what you label yourself, and why anyone else would is beyond me.

Peter

 

[Hespera]

The intent of the first half of the film is one arrogant scientist trying to make those in the second half look stupid while making himself look smart. And I suspect that is your intent too. That's what is sickening about it. I pity the kids who are fed this nonsense by a bunch of arrogant star gazers.

this says so much about why america continues to sink and the kids continue to rank so poorly compared to those of other nations.

 

[Delphiki]

The intent of the first half of the film is one arrogant scientist trying to make those in the second half look stupid while making himself look smart.

Unlikely, since Sagan's Cosmos was filmed in the 1980 while Jesus Camp came out this decade. I doubt Sagan knew someone would make a youtube video (before there even was an internet) comparing him to preachers in a documentary that wasn't even out yet. So no, Sagan isn't trying to make the zealots look stupid -- interesting, though how you couldn't possibly think that you simply perceive them that way otherwise.

And I suspect that is your intent too. That's what is sickening about it. I pity the kids who are fed this nonsense by a bunch of arrogant star gazers.

What part of what Sagan taught the kids was nonsense?




Also, @AVET - Jesus Camp is a feature length documentary about a real ministry.

 

[AV1611VET]

this says so much about why america continues to sink and the kids continue to rank so poorly compared to those of other nations.

We're what, compared to other nations? 27th out of 195? and that constitutes 'ranking so poorly' to you?