schizophrenia or demons

[lutherangerman]

How can I check whether a mental suffering is from demons or whether it is a psychosis/schizophrenia? I get medicines for schizophrenia and I've had symptoms like in the medical textbooks, so I don't know. But the voices I hear seem really devilish and sometimes I see these faces like in the Passion of The Christ movie, what happened to Judas there. Though I did not betray Christ, just had no faith sometimes. How does a checked and verified demon possession really look like?

 

[Radagast]

How can I check whether a mental suffering is from demons or whether it is a psychosis/schizophrenia?

Psychosis/schizophrenia is a much, much more likely explanation. And if medical treatment works, that confirms that the problem was medical.

The Catholic Church performs exorcisms for (presumed) demonic possession, but it considers demonic possession to be very, very rare.

To quote Wikipedia, "According to the Vatican guidelines issued in 1999, 'the person who claims to be possessed must be evaluated by doctors to rule out a mental or physical illness.' Most reported cases do not require an exorcism because twentieth-century Catholic officials regard genuine demonic possession as an extremely rare phenomenon that is easily confounded with natural mental disturbances. Many times a person just needs spiritual or medical help, especially if drugs or other addictions are present."

 

[Avniel]

If you believe in Jesus then it can not be.

 

[PersephonesTear]

How can I check whether a mental suffering is from demons or whether it is a psychosis/schizophrenia? I get medicines for schizophrenia and I've had symptoms like in the medical textbooks, so I don't know. But the voices I hear seem really devilish and sometimes I see these faces like in the Passion of The Christ movie, what happened to Judas there. Though I did not betray Christ, just had no faith sometimes. How does a checked and verified demon possession really look like?

Hmm... I have a friend who has a schizo-affective disorder, and she has been documented to experience hallucinations at times. She claims to be able to tell the difference between a hallucination and a spiritual entity, but don't ask me how she does it. I'm just saying that it may be possible to suffer from schizophrenia and be able to distinguish between what is your disease and what is coming from an outside source.

If your symptoms are able to be controlled by medication, then that indicates that the problem is medical. Though, I'll point out, not all schizophrenics respond to the same medications in exactly the same way. Your doctor may need to help you in tweaking your meds a bit before you find a workable solution.

Also, how long have you been experiencing these symptoms? I am not an expert on schizophrenia, but I think it's a disease that doesn't manifest until your late teens or even later in life. The timing of when this began to occur could help you figure it out as well. It would seem unlikely to me that demons would leave you alone throughout childhood and then suddenly take up an interest in you.

 

[vespasia]

Luther,

God knows your heart even when your mind has periods where it can be hard for you to know yourself.

Thorugh the folk who provide care for your health could you access a christian Chaplain who you could just sit and chat your concerns and worries with?

The majority of mental health chaplains train in both helath and pastoral care and tend to be compassionate people willing to sit and listen, something that many doctors can be a bit time short to do, and they can offer words of blessing to you in Christ's name.

May God bless you with support from caring Christians and good and kind doctors where you live.

 

[Radagast]

Through the folk who provide care for your health could you access a Christian Chaplain who you could just sit and chat your concerns and worries with?

This is good advice.

May God bless you with support from caring Christians and good and kind doctors where you live.

Amen.

 

[Receiver]

How can I check whether a mental suffering is from demons or whether it is a psychosis/schizophrenia? ...

If you follow the original gospel directive to repent, be baptised and receive God's Spirit (evidenced by speaking in tongues) you will be "free indeed", trnslated from the kingdom of darkness into the kingdom of light, with a new heart and mind. Acts 2:4, 33, 37-39, Colossians 1:13, John 3:8.

We all have .. don't fight darkness with darkness, don't even try to analyse the problem with your un-redeemed mind, switch on the light and it will go!

 

[lutherangerman]

I'm sure that demons exist, I'm just not sure whether I am personally possessed or even attacked or something. Other christians here never complain about any problem like that. And yes, I'm a baptized believer except that my faith is wavering sometimes because of the evil in the world and because christian theology can be difficult to grasp. But I do believe in God, in Christ.

About schizophrenia, it developed in my early twenties, like in most of the people with schizophrenia. I don't actually hallucinate as in seeing things in reality, the way I experience it I see faces in my imagination sometimes, like in the dark when you close your eyes. And my thoughts and feelings get disturbed. Before I was medicated with my current medicine, I experienced massive psychosis, again according to the schizophrenia symptoms in the list it seems pretty classic.

I guess I am just a weak christian or something, and I am sick. If I were demon possessed I would be living in the desert somewhere, or be aggressive to people, both things that I have never been. I live in a christian group home where other people have the illness too, only without religious content and with other themes of paranoia and mania like being beamed with trouble from other people or always hearing people talk like in a bar or restaurant.

I just want to know what real demonic possession is like. If anyone can please show me a link to some concrete and evidenced cases of demonic possession. I'm not denying that demons exist, only that the illness of schizophrenia can also be responsible for symptoms seeming like demonic possession but which in fact are not such cases.

 

[turned around]

Hi Lutheran,
Paul in the last chapter of 2 Corinthians 13:14 talks about communion with the Holy Ghost. Seek his advice first, and see where he leads you.

Grace to you.

 

[Receiver]

I'm sure that demons exist, I'm just not sure whether I am personally possessed or even attacked or something. Other christians here never complain about any problem like that. And yes, I'm a baptized believer except that my faith is wavering ...

The baptised believers in Acts 8:12-18 and elsewhere were known not to have *received* the Holy Spirit. As such they were still "in the flesh", in darkness. They accepted this and as a result received.

The problem today is, over the centuries, the original born again experience of receiving the Spirit with the sign/ability of speaking in tongues has been replaced by "make a confession" / "pray the sinners prayer" etc.

If you want to experience New Testament salvation you will need to ditch these traditions of men and get back to the original (Acts 2:4, 33, 37-39, see also 10:44-48).

 

[Radagast]

And yes, I'm a baptized believer except that my faith is wavering sometimes because of the evil in the world and because christian theology can be difficult to grasp. But I do believe in God, in Christ.

I'm aware of your struggles from other threads (we all have struggles of various kinds), but believers like yourself cannot be demon-possessed.

Before I was medicated with my current medicine, I experienced massive psychosis, again according to the schizophrenia symptoms in the list it seems pretty classic.

Again, that indicates that your condition is medical.

If anyone can please show me a link to some concrete and evidenced cases of demonic possession.

I'm not aware of any such. The Catholic Church performs only a tiny handful of exorcisms; most of those are never documented. The last documented case I know of was in the US in 1928 (reported in a book by Carl Vogl, which was translated into Englsh as "Begone Satan"), but I don't guarantee that that case was genuine, and I'm not at all sure it was proven.

 

[seashale76]

I sat through a symposium at my university about a year-and-a-half ago, where one of the papers presented was on schizophrenia. The professor in question frequently consulted with psychiatrists in his research.

Essentially, they are saying that schizophrenia can be diagnosed by a simple vision test now. Also, it is merely the case of your brain functioning differently. Someone who is schizophrenic will see everything as its individual parts (so to speak) rather than the whole that everyone else does. For example, one person with schizophrenia was quoted as saying that when he looked at this wristwatch, he could see all of the parts that made up the watch, but that it took him longer to notice that all of them together made up a watch. Another said that he felt fine standing still, but when moving he felt disconnected and that it took him longer to realize and put things together without being disconcerted- as a result- he didn't feel in control. The voices you hear may actually be your own thoughts, you just don't recognize them as such.

Now, that said, can a Christian be oppressed by demons? I'm not sure that I believe a faithful Christian can be possessed by a demon. Oppression though is a possibility- and everyone has thoughts that pop into their heads that don't necessarily originate from themselves.

In Orthodoxy we call such thoughts logismoi (tempting thoughts which lead to sin). The Church Fathers tend to recognize five stages:

assault (thoughts pop into your head)
interaction (you entertain these thoughts)
consent (you decide to act on these thoughts)
defeat (you are hostage- resistance is difficult)
passion (it becomes part of you)

The usual recommended practice is to pray when the thoughts first pop into your head. Ignore the thoughts if possible and keep turning your mind and heart back to prayer.

So, if you've been diagnosed as a schizophrenic, then I'd say you likely really are, and that has nothing to do with demonic possession.

 

[ezeric]

I firmly believe that Luther knows the LORD and even got a deeper taste of HIS GRACE.
But has to learn the authority of the believer, and how to say "no" to enemy attacks.
And when he fails, to rest in un-conditional love, the LOVE of JESUS.

As for the 'rule' of the forum, it is sad that mostly my brothers in America are generally such a litigious society that they are afraid of saying anything. …I 'm glad JESUS and Paul weren't like that!

-eric

 

[spr]

Here's a good question: what do demon's have to do with your relationship with God? God doesn't intend for you to have to go around grabbing people by the sleeve and asking them to pray for you. Isn't it enough that they know you are struggling?

If they are able to pray for you their zeal for God will compel them to without you coercing them to. And if they don't pray for you it isn't in them to do for whatever reason and your petitions aren't going to help.

So if you accept that reaching out to others should simply consist of not concealing your struggles, then the only thing left to do, whether your demon possesed or not, is to trust in God and do whatever you find to do with your life.

If you do have a demon messing with you, he surely isn't bigger than God. Remember when the disciples of Jesus asked him what sin that one guy committed that caused him to be in the position he was in? What did Jesus answer them? That he was as he was so that the Glory of God could be revealed.

So whatever case you are in, it is for the glory of God somehow. Think of it as your testimony that the world will see and praise God for. He is always looking to show the world his greatness, demons or not.

 

[Inkachu]

Luther - for whatever it's worth, God knows what you're dealing with. Why not ask Him to help you with this? He's more wise and powerful than any doctor, book, or internet article. He knows what's causing these symptoms for you. And He's able to help you with it. I am NOT suggesting that you refuse your medical care, I acknowledge and understand that you have schizophrenia, and I'm glad that you're in a safe setting. But rather than torment yourself with worry over whether these symptoms are demonic or medical, I wonder if you could just stop fretting about it and surrender it to God? If you trust Him to take care of you, no matter what, then He will continue to do so, even through this frightening time. If this is something demonic, He's still with you. If this is something medical, He's still with you. You're in a fragile state right now, and I don't know if worrying and trying to comprehend all of this will do you any good.

Just my two cents. Love you, bro!

 

[aiki]

How can I check whether a mental suffering is from demons or whether it is a psychosis/schizophrenia? I get medicines for schizophrenia and I've had symptoms like in the medical textbooks, so I don't know. But the voices I hear seem really devilish and sometimes I see these faces like in the Passion of The Christ movie, what happened to Judas there. Though I did not betray Christ, just had no faith sometimes. How does a checked and verified demon possession really look like?

LutherA, you are always on a spiritual battlefield; every believer is. The demonic is daily working to lure you into darkness. This is why we are commanded to always be on our guard.

1Pe 5:8 Be sensible and vigilant, because your adversary the Devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking someone he may devour...

A vigilant guard is not the one who is taking a nap during his shift on duty. The vigilant guard is watching carefully every moment for any activity of the enemy. Followers of Christ must be watching carefully, they must be vigilant, because Satan and his fallen angels are constantly at work pushing, pulling, luring unwary people into darkness where they may be "devoured." It should be a given for you, then, LutherA, that Satan's demonic agents are working to bring you to destruction.

Is your struggle with schizophrenia actually demonic possession? Not necessarily. But you can bet the devil is going to try to use your schizophrenia to turn you from God into darkness.

My grandfather encountered the demonic frequently in his ministry as a revival evangelist. He wrote a book about his experiences called "Demons among Evangelicals." Scary stuff! Christians in the West have been seduced my modern secular culture to poo-poo the idea of demonic oppression/possession, but it is actually remarkably common - if my grandfather's experience is anything to go by. I would be very wary of a Christian who encourages you to turn a blind eye to the demonic. Such advice is not biblical!

If you have been born again, you have victory in Christ over Satan and his fallen angels. You ought to respect the fact that Satan is very powerful and incredibly devious but you do not need to fear him or his demons. You have been "bought with a price," the Bible says, and have been taken out of the kingdom of darkness and placed in God's kingdom of light. You are a child of God, a joint-heir with Christ, if you are saved, and Satan no longer has any more power in your life than you choose to give him. In light of this, follow the apostle James' command:

Jas 4:6 But He gives more grace. Therefore He says, God resists the proud, but He gives grace to the humble.
Jas 4:7 Therefore submit yourselves to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Here's the key to successfully resisting the devil: full submission to God. You must submit before you can resist; but when you are submitted and you do resist, Satan will flee from you!

Selah.

 

[parsley]

It's a great question. King Saul must have struggled with it, since he had his moments.

I guess I am just a weak christian or something

Spoken like a true German. It is not our strength that keeps evil away, or makes Christianity work better. Not by might, not by power, but by my Spirit, saith the Lord.

Jesus taught us the tools to resist and set others free. We just don't always believe it can be so simple. We must need muscles or garlic or libraries or amulets or more degrees.

Silver and gold have I none, but such as I have give I thee.

assault (thoughts pop into your head)
interaction (you entertain these thoughts)
consent (you decide to act on these thoughts)
defeat (you are hostage- resistance is difficult)
passion (it becomes part of you)

And NT scriptures lean toward showing permissions -- what we allow and disallow. Not being victimized by imagining we are stuck forever, or blamed for being oppressed.

1Pe 5:8, Jas 4:7

And more. Powers and principalities...full armor of God... .
-
It would make sense that the forum rules were made to prevent people taking advice from strangers as though it were safe, and being harmed by those choices. Medical information is different from advice/Rx; and reports of supernatural experiences or discussion on scriptures about deliverance is simply doctrinal talk.

When someone starts saying "Shout three times and hold a crucifix over the person's nose," then it is deliverance advice.

schizophrenia can be diagnosed by a simple vision test now.

Cool!
Your description of schizophrenia was so understandable.

Are you aware that roughly one third of the ministry of Jesus was dealing with deliverance, demonic?

Tied in with that -- Jesus' ministry was to the Jews! So some of those were living by faith in God.

I firmly believe that Luther knows the LORD and even got a deeper taste of HIS GRACE.
But has to learn the authority of the believer, and how to say "no" to enemy attacks.

Definitely. He has been very devoted for many years.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

How can I check whether a mental suffering is from demons or whether it is a psychosis/schizophrenia? I get medicines for schizophrenia and I've had symptoms like in the medical textbooks, so I don't know. But the voices I hear seem really devilish and sometimes I see these faces like in the Passion of The Christ movie, what happened to Judas there. Though I did not betray Christ, just had no faith sometimes. How does a checked and verified demon possession really look like?

Based on snippets of Scripture, if a person were demon possessed, I think that they not only would verbally blaspheme Jesus, but would also evince possible manifestations of 'super-strength' as well as some kind of divining ability. Moreover, a possessed person would not likely have bi-polar bouts between dementia and clear thoughts. Rather, a possessed person would consistently express a spiritually abrasive attitude toward Christ, probably every day.

My mother was diagnosed as 'schizophrenic' and I never saw any signs that would indicate to me that she was 'possessed.' She did her best to be a Christian under mentally challenging circumstances, and even though at times things may have gotten out of hand, she was nevertheless sensitive to God's Spirit and usually tried to be a loving person.

Peace.

 

[Radagast]

I don't know. When I consider my issues to have demonic origins

I'm certain that they're purely medical.

That's why I think I enjoy the catholic and the traditional lutheran position more. They do believe in demons, just that the problem is not so widespread. That Jesus' cross effected something in that area too. That it requires false religion and extreme unspiritualness to be possessed.

That is, I think, the completely orthodox position. Satan can tempt us to sin, but that's all he can do.

This is like an eternal bunch of questions die-hard evangicals never can answer

I'm an Evangelical, and I what I believe on this topic is exactly what you called "Catholic and traditional Lutheran."

That is why german christians usually identify the devil as the world's evil, presented to us with a mystical twist

Well, I believe (as Catholics and traditional Lutherans do) in a literal devil, but I believe that Christ has defeated the devil.

It's a good day, it's the Lord's Day and I will go to church today.

Ein’ feste Burg ist unser Gott,
Ein gute Wehr und Waffen;
Er hilft uns frei aus aller Not,
Die uns jetzt hat betroffen.
Der alt’ böse Feind,
Mit Ernst er’s jetzt meint,
Gross’ Macht und viel List
Sein’ grausam’ Ruestung ist,
Auf Erd’ ist nicht seingleichen.

A mighty fortress is our God, a bulwark never failing;
Our helper He, amid the flood of mortal ills prevailing:
For still our ancient foe doth seek to work us woe;
His craft and power are great, and, armed with cruel hate,
On earth is not his equal.

Mit unsrer Macht is nichts getan,
Wir sind gar bald verloren;
Es steit’t für uns der rechte Mann,
Den Gott hat selbst erkoren.
Fragst du, wer der ist?
Er heisst Jesu Christ,
Der Herr Zebaoth,
Und ist kein andrer Gott,
Das Feld muss er behalten.

Did we in our own strength confide, our striving would be losing;
Were not the right Man on our side, the Man of God’s own choosing:
Dost ask who that may be? Christ Jesus, it is He;
Lord Sabaoth, His name, from age to age the same,
And He must win the battle.

Und wenn die Welt voll Teufel wär’
Und wollt’ uns gar verschlingen,
So fürchten wir uns nicht so sehr,
Es soll uns doch gelingen.
Der Fürst dieser Welt,
Wie sau’r er sich stellt,
Tut er uns doch nicht,
Das macht, er ist gericht’t,
Ein Wörtlein kann ihn fällen.

And though this world, with devils filled, should threaten to undo us,
We will not fear, for God hath willed His truth to triumph through us:
The Prince of Darkness grim, we tremble not for him;
His rage we can endure, for lo, his doom is sure,
One little word shall fell him. -- Martin Luther

 

[boogalaboogala]

How can I check whether a mental suffering is from demons or whether it is a psychosis/schizophrenia? I get medicines for schizophrenia and I've had symptoms like in the medical textbooks, so I don't know. But the voices I hear seem really devilish and sometimes I see these faces like in the Passion of The Christ movie, what happened to Judas there. Though I did not betray Christ, just had no faith sometimes. How does a checked and verified demon possession really look like?

after reading quite a few of your other posts, that include masterbating, and your ever increasing sexual appetite.
i am going to go out on a limb here and say that if it is not demonic. and i sincerely doubt that it is... then you really do need to get your meds changed, or maybe the dosage adjusted.
i hope that you can eventually get through all of this, and find your place in Christ's service..