Saved or unsaved

[Matthew86]

when you realize you’re not chosen, you fall apart. Do you think that such a person is not really a human? I can think of no other reason to be completely abandoned by God. Not that anything can be done about it, but I really wish I knew what I did and when. I don’t think it was here in this realm.

All of God's children are God's chosen if they make the choice to choose him. I do not understand how people turn this around backwards that God chooses you to listen and then you can be with God that is ridiculous. Anyone can turn to God at any time for any reason and form a relationship with him without buddha or muhammed or jesus. You are God's child not someone "Selected" from a special lottery sorry but that is downright disrespectful of the common deceny of the individual and i wont stand for it.

 

[Unsavable]

This is a great question thank you for asking it. I would ask you what is your intent behind this do you have a fear of not being saved or something like that?

I will give two examples to offer help. First the story of Jonah and Ninevah. God sent Jonah to Ninevah a wicked city to repent and turn from their ways or be destroyed. Ninevah takes this seriously and starts to fast and pray from the king down to the people. God then forgives them and saves them from destruction.

King David after he had committed adultery and murder is confronted by the prophet Nathan. He tells him a story that causes David to understand his sin and ask God for forgiveness. Nathan says to David fear not your sins are forgiven you surely will not die, however you will still bare the consequences of your sins, which is why his son late rebelled against him. No magic no mystical stuff no procedures just a knowing you did something wrong and confessing you did sin to God no other people needed and stop sinning and do better in the future that is the formula. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

My intent, as you may surmise by my screen name, is that I question my own place in salvation. I am not questioning the existence of God. I have been frustrated by the bars on cage in which I live. So I ask the question, is believing enough. And if it is not enough, why is it not enough? What else is there? Etc.

 

[Matthew86]

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

My intent, as you may surmise by my screen name, is that I question my own place in salvation. I am not questioning the existence of God. I have been frustrated by the bars on cage in which I live. So I ask the question, is believing enough. And if it is not enough, why is it not enough? What else is there? Etc.

You are welcome it is my pleasure to share if it helps you. I think the most basic response to this that anyone that believes in God should say is read the 10 commandments. Some are very obvious, not murdering people in cold blood, stealing etc. Some might take some deeper thought when God says I am the Lord your God and thou shalt have no other gods before me what does that mean? Well to fully understand you have to read the entire book, and even then you can never reach a full understand of something that is immaterial in a sense as God is he is not a man as it says in Numbers 23:19 God is not a man that he should lie, nor the son of man that he should repent. So one critical thing is you personally talk to God however you can and he will draw closer to you like a friendship. If you call up your friend and say hey how are you what are you thinking, you get closer and closer to that person. God really doesn't like idol worship either but what exactly does that mean you do not bow down before a statue? Well yes that is one thing but you also completely oppose anything that is against One true God because it gets in the way of honest sincere people like yourself thinking they need something external to get you to God and to fullness of life, because that is what we want right? Health happiness prosperity, there is nothing wrong with that, do your own parents not want the same thing for you?

Ok is believing enough? Great question let me ask you if you had a small child that wanted to go play in the street, and you told him even though he did not see it, that cars come down that road and could kill him, he might very well believe you are correct, but if he does not listen and act by not going into the road he puts himself in great danger. Will he die probably not but obviously action is stronger than belief no one with common sense would dispute believing in feeding the starving is greater than actually curing world hunger.

What else is there? I would recommend you do what the people did at Mt. Sinai when for the only time in the history of the world we have a record that an entire nation millions of people heard God speak to them. They said we will do, and then seek to understand. Then they believed in this strongly enough they circumcised themselves in the middle of the desert. I don't know about you but i would never cut my own body parts unless i actually saw something convincing.

So what is the next step? Read. Do not give much weight to me or anyone else because we can even unknowingly brainwash you by false or mixed beliefs we may have form your own opinion and do not listen to anyone that says otherwise. Although i have went through the new testament and disproven it completely ifully recommend you read the old and the new testament if you feel driven to but look at them both from a neutral point of view, study, research, and compare. The truth is right there and will come out on its own. It took me about 3 years of seriously everyday study sometimes a chapter a day sometimes 10. If you are asking these questions you are ready and have the power and ability to take control of your destiny and forge a new path forward. I believe in you now go take action and make everyone proud.

P.S. The biggest change for me started when i read the 10 commandments and looked up the sabbath in a dictionary. Look at any dictionary or calender every thing will tell you the seventh day is Saturday. I started coming home friday night and commiting that time to reading, study, and reflection on life until saturday night. Massive changes came in line, slowly but surely, from that point on. God be with you.

 

[Unsavable]

I will admit to you that i was a zealous christian. i was in church multiple times a week even for prayer meeting i was totally immersed and read my bible every single day after i started going to church. I was not raised with any religion completely non religious, so i read the Bible to understand what i was supposed to do and think and all that right. Well within weeks i started having contradictions in what i read versus what i was hearing in church and i was confused. Every time i asked someone a question they would say ohh just pray about it. Well so i did and continued to read and just be good in general i stopped doing anything bad and was losing interest in it too just from focus on reading and understanding like i was a detective kind of.

So as months went on the contradictions stacked up, i started to think i had accidentally got involved with a cult, so i went to another church, but i found the same thing. So i am reading the Bible and going to churches that are telling me that jesus was God and he did away with the law and meanwhile i am at home reading, Numbers 23:19 God is not a man that he can lie, nor the son of man the he should repent. Wait let me re read that it says 100% clear as day GOD IS NOT THE SON OF MAN WHOA!!! The Bible says over and over it will not be changed it is perfect will last forever etc. So my conclusion was that the old testament and the new testament are two seperate books that do not align with each other in any way other that plaguerized passages extracted and misread from the old testament. I can give examples all the day long if you have any interest but im not trying to press it on you, you have free will and whatever you are feeling is ok and understandable.

I cannot speak to the caliber of the churches you attended. The debates over scriptural interpretation are endless but in most cases healthy in my opinion. But I have to question your interpretation which I see as based off semantics. Your example: "God is not a man that he can lie, nor the son of man the he should repent." I would interpret this in a totally different way. The concept of the Trinity is a complex one along with understanding the nature of the trinity. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. We understand the Father as being spirit, the lamb of God who is referenced many times in the old testament is a man. Jesus was born of an immaculate conception. Therefore Jesus did not inherit the sin of Adam. He was both God and man as God dwelled in Him. As a man He did Gods bidding. Even going to the cross where He asked the Father to spare Him but denied Himself and did His Fathers will.

I have heard it said that there is no cohesiveness in the scriptures but I have come to realize this is not so. The salvation story starts in Genesis, weaves its way through the entire old and new testaments all the way to the book of Revelation. I have come to realize that understanding Judeo-Christian symbolism is critical to seeing this. For example, Jonah being in the belly of a Fish for 3 days. The fish later became a symbol for Christ and Christ had been in the grave for 3 days. So there is really amazing consistency but sometimes you have to do some serious digging to see it.

 

[Matthew86]

I cannot speak to the caliber of the churches you attended. The debates over scriptural interpretation are endless but in most cases healthy in my opinion. But I have to question your interpretation which I see as based off semantics. Your example: "God is not a man that he can lie, nor the son of man the he should repent." I would interpret this in a totally different way. The concept of the Trinity is a complex one along with understanding the nature of the trinity. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. We understand the Father as being spirit, the lamb of God who is referenced many times in the old testament is a man. Jesus was born of an immaculate conception. Therefore Jesus did not inherit the sin of Adam. He was both God and man as God dwelled in Him. As a man He did Gods bidding. Even going to the cross where He asked the Father to spare Him but denied Himself and did His Fathers will.

I have heard it said that there is no cohesiveness in the scriptures but I have come to realize this is not so. The salvation story starts in Genesis, weaves its way through the entire old and new testaments all the way to the book of Revelation. I have come to realize that understanding Judeo-Christian symbolism is critical to seeing this. For example, Jonah being in the belly of a Fish for 3 days. The fish later became a symbol for Christ and Christ had been in the grave for 3 days. So there is really amazing consistency but sometimes you have to do some serious digging to see it.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion but you are using the new testament as a source to prove itself what you quoted was from the Book of John chapter 1 verses 1-18. I know those texts very well and can quote them to you. The mormons made their own book stacked ontop of the Bible and aded prophecies about joseph smith, pretty much anyone agrees mormons are not christians, yet this is exactly what the new testament does. I studied to the point i knew more than any christian i could talk to , my pastors just dumbfounded and they were very smart and knowledgeable but they were tied into doctrines of men not reading the bible and quoting it.

If you actually care i will give a couple of examples on the chance you are open minded and reading this. In the book of Isaiah it says very clearly when the messiah comes, at that exact time, there will be world peace, people wont even be taught war, the knowledge of God will cover the earth like the water covers the seas, it clearly says people wont even be taught about God because they will all already know. It also says the messiah will give an offering at the third temple for his own sins and the sins of the people. Now i could go on for days like Nineveh not needing jesus to repent King David that did things way worse than you can dream of God forgave him and you not what David says about God? Sacrifices and burnt offerings you did not desire but a circumcised heart. What about the sin offering without the blood there is no remission of sins right? Well what does God say?

Lets read it Leviticus chapter 4
1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the Lord concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:

Just like today if you knowingly sinned you went to court! You had to accept the ruling of the judges and do whatever was required there was no going to the temple to give an offering when you killed somebody that is ludicrous. I Read my Bible that is where my information comes from Not the traditions of men and a church responsible for the dark ages. The pope is not God on earth Martin Luther was a rabbid anti semite look it up yourself do not believe me let the word of God and established history be your teacher.

 

[Unsavable]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion but you are using the new testament as a source to prove itself what you quoted was from the Book of John chapter 1 verses 1-18. I know those texts very well and can quote them to you. The mormons made their own book stacked ontop of the Bible and aded prophecies about joseph smith, pretty much anyone agrees mormons are not christians, yet this is exactly what the new testament does. I studied to the point i knew more than any christian i could talk to , my pastors just dumbfounded and they were very smart and knowledgeable but they were tied into doctrines of men not reading the bible and quoting it.

If you actually care i will give a couple of examples on the chance you are open minded and reading this. In the book of Isaiah it says very clearly when the messiah comes, at that exact time, there will be world peace, people wont even be taught war, the knowledge of God will cover the earth like the water covers the seas, it clearly says people wont even be taught about God because they will all already know. It also says the messiah will give an offering at the third temple for his own sins and the sins of the people. Now i could go on for days like Nineveh not needing jesus to repent King David that did things way worse than you can dream of God forgave him and you not what David says about God? Sacrifices and burnt offerings you did not desire but a circumcised heart. What about the sin offering without the blood there is no remission of sins right? Well what does God say?

Lets read it Leviticus chapter 4
1 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall sin through ignorance against any of the commandments of the Lord concerning things which ought not to be done, and shall do against any of them:

Just like today if you knowingly sinned you went to court! You had to accept the ruling of the judges and do whatever was required there was no going to the temple to give an offering when you killed somebody that is ludicrous. I Read my Bible that is where my information comes from Not the traditions of men and a church responsible for the dark ages. The pope is not God on earth Martin Luther was a rabbid anti semite look it up yourself do not believe me let the word of God and established history be your teacher.

I care. I am not a know it all in any sense of the word and interested in your thoughts. Even if we disagree on some points. I was blogging over a work break so I will have to read your response in detail later but I appreciate you taking the time and sharing your thoughts.

 

[Matthew86]

I care. I am not a know it all in any sense of the word and interested in your thoughts. Even if we disagree on some points. I was blogging over a work break so I will have to read your response in detail later but I appreciate you taking the time and sharing your thoughts.

I appreciate your honesty and humility. I know what i know and have studied you know, i can not tell you how to build a rocket or chemistry you know but what i have studied i do now and will happily source anything i say most people simply cannot do that. Disagreement is a healthy thing when we retain communication and respect for each other because we can both gain something from each others thoughts without losing anything of our own. I do not attempt to press my views merely put them out for anyone that had the fear i had of God that was the fear of the christian god of this world the satan devil. That terror grips people but is very evil there is only One God and no evil boogeyman that can get you, God has no equal the story ends. it is my pleasure to share if it helps you.

 

[Unsavable]

I must apologize. I am going to be out of town for a week for a work function and doubt I will l have much access to a computer. It sounds strange in this day in age but I will be assisting in a project at a reclaimed warehouse and I may be wrong but I think the facilities are going to be pretty primitive. Thanks for understanding. I will rejoin the conversation when I return.

 

[Matthew86]

I must apologize. I am going to be out of town for a week for a work function and doubt I will l have much access to a computer. It sounds strange in this day in age but I will be assisting in a project at a reclaimed warehouse and I may be wrong but I think the facilities are going to be pretty primitive. Thanks for understanding. I will rejoin the conversation when I return.

I wish you well, remember to read about King David and the prophet Nathan. There is nothing you can do that makes you unsavable and God says when you change your ways he throws your sins away deep in the sea. The point God is making is that you feel distant to God because of whatever but when you let it go God throws it so far away from the both of you it is not coming inbetween your personal relationship with God anymore. One God no intermediaries you are good to go from here on!

 

[Unsavable]

Thank you Mathew.

I will read about King David and the prophet Nathan!

 

[Matthew86]

Thank you Mathew.

I will read about King David and the prophet Nathan!

You are welcome, i feel like sharing one extra thing with you.

In the Kabbalah the mystical side of judaism, it talks about sin being like an onion that covers you over in layers and puts a barrier that weakens your connection to your creator and the "Holy spirit" as some say. It goes on to say when you repent, by changing your ways, your thinking, and becoming a different person and do tshuva. Tshuva is where the word repentance comes from but it has a much larger meaning than just saying sorry. Not only should you feel bad about the sin, now this can be something you did or being disgusted at something someone did to you can go both ways. Then you stop the sin or try to prevent it if you can. You learn about how to make that thing better and get closer to the right thing. Do chesed works of truth and charity teach people the right things stuff like that. You do not do tshuva to get in to heaven or anything like that, the purpose is it facilitates and accelerates you building your personal relationship with God. Feels really good. My 2 cents have a good day, keep peeling that onion back.

 

[VvZodiacvV777]

I haven't read thoroughly through this topic, but I am worried I have not been saved...even though as a child I was saved and baptised. I will get into to further detail once I have seen a reply. Often times I find myself not doing the right things I should be doing (taking joy in them at the time) and after I have done then I feel tremendous guilt and ask myself, "God why am I doing these things?" I know they are not right yet I just keep coming back to them. I am a bi-polar paranoid schizophrenic with severe anxiety, depression, am very anti-social and also agoraphobic (afraid to leave my domicile). [anyone reading this please spare me the jokes. I'm well aware I have drawn the short straw]. To point out my reasoning for asking advice on this, it is because for a very long time I have found myself "sealed away in secret" doing things I know I shouldn't be doing like playing Magic the Gathering cards or watching horror films or playing video games with lascivious female characters who fight monsters and act provacatively. Afterwards I always feel bad about it and I'll pray and say "God please help me, let this be the last time." Then for a few days I'll delete all my games, stop watching Japanese anime and listen to sermons...often of which cut me right to the bone with guilt while I'm going "yep, that's me, all those things you are saying random pastor, that's me." Yet here I am several days later riddled with guilt going..."Yet you did it again. Are you stupid or do you just not care?" I halfway don't even know what to think anymore. I believe in God and I have called out to Jesus many times when I am afraid....but I am not sure if I am going to heaven because I have such a terribly compulsive nature. Please someone let me know what you think and also pray for me.

 

[Peter John]

I haven't read thoroughly through this topic, but I am worried I have not been saved...even though as a child I was saved and baptised.

Being saved is over a lifetime of stuffing up, asking forgiveness, & eventually conforming to Christ's likeness. It doesn't happen overnight, & if I can encourage you with what Paul (arguably the greatest Apostle) said about himself, in Rom7v19
For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice.
The fact that you know what you do, & feel the guilt & shame, means your halfway there, & need to pray that God will help you overcome your weaknesses.

 

[VvZodiacvV777]

The fact that you know what you do, & feel the guilt & shame, means your halfway there, & need to pray that God will help you overcome your weaknesses.

That brings me peace of mind. Maybe I need to join a Bible study group that has a deeper understanding of the Bible. Maybe there I'll be able to fully absorb God's word instead of reading things out of context that make me cower in fear that I'm unforgivable because I do human things.

 

[Mitty]

Thank you Mathew.

I will read about King David and the prophet Nathan!

And why do you need to believe in Jesus anyway, or is that why Moses & Noah & Abraham & David etc never went to heaven (John 3:13) even though David was his god's begotten son (Psalm 2:7).

And is someone who has a severe mental disability and is mentally incapable of reading the bible or believing in Jesus and repenting etc just tossed into the lake of fire.

Either way 1Tim 2:4 says that unbelievers are saved anyway.

 

[Peter John]

Either way 1Tim 2:4 says that unbelievers are saved anyway.

When reading 'all', that does not mean everybody, it's all the believers, which are few! This is consistent also when 'whosoever' in Jn3v16 is 'pas o' in Greek, meaning 'the all', again, all the believers, not everyone!

 

[Mitty]

When reading 'all', that does not mean everybody, it's all the believers, which are few! This is consistent also when 'whosoever' in Jn3v16 is 'pas o' in Greek, meaning 'the all', again, all the believers, not everyone!

But that's not what 1Tim 4:10 says, and says that all men are saved, especially those that believe.

And are you claiming that Moses & Noah & Abraham etc never went to heaven (John 3:13) because they didn't believe in Jesus and didn't repent and weren't "born again"?

 

[lordjeff]

I'd like to expand the question--we need some ministers here because these are not easy answers. What happened to the souls of the following: Judas, Herod, Pilate, Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Lenin, Mao, Chou En Lai, Pol Pot, Pinochet, Amin?

 

[Strathos]

I'd like to expand the question--we need some ministers here because these are not easy answers. What happened to the souls of the following: Judas, Herod, Pilate, Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Lenin, Mao, Chou En Lai, Pol Pot, Pinochet, Amin?

Is anyone really qualified to answer that other than God?

 

[mtatertayte]

Hello all,

Thank you in advance for sharing your thoughts and ideas on this question.

Can a person know that Christ is the true Son of God and died for the sins of mankind and yet not be saved?

Ask Judas?