Saved or unsaved

[pleinmont]

So you are saying you have doubts .

What would it take to convince you otherwise? What would count as proof? Would a change in your character constitute evidence of a spiritual event or would it take something else? Would statistical evidence, like the statistical impossibility of auto generated life be enough or would you consider that speculative? The Earth is flying through space at roughly 67,000 miles per hour while spinning at over 1,000 miles and hour. We are soaring around a nuclear fire about 3 million mile in circumference. We are clinging to this relatively small rock in space living in a bubble of air clinging to its surface. And yet we have blue skies and gentle rains. We live in relative tranquility in spite of the destructive chaos that surrounds us. Even if you do not believe in Christianity, doesn't this make you think that maybe there is an all powerful God running the show?

So the topic is related to the Christian philosophy in particular. If you can accept the possibility of God, not suggesting you do, then why or why not the Christian God?

Thank you

Unless there is evidence that cannot be doubted where the existence of a god is concerned the default position must be unbelief, imo. Of course an entity could possibly exist in another dimension, but if it does, I don't think it is in touch with humans. Earth is one tiny little planet in a vast universe, it is unlikely that Earth is the only planet hosting intelligent life forms. Maybe some of them have their own version of god too.

 

[Kaon]

when you realize you’re not chosen, you fall apart. Do you think that such a person is not really a human? I can think of no other reason to be completely abandoned by God. Not that anything can be done about it, but I really wish I knew what I did and when. I don’t think it was here in this realm.

This life is living what you don't remember so you know exactly why you are already where you are now. You can blame institution and dogma for confusing so many, and keeping so many from understanding. Every human is responsible for their own spiritual trajectory, and we cannot go to judgment saying this person said this or that, especially when we were exposed to different facets of His Word to convict us to find the truth.

Those actions, as well as the actions that make someone believe they can get away with something, are some elements of life some of us need to experience so that we know why we are where we are now.

It would be as if the Most High separated the wheat from chaff, and the chaff said, "Why.... This isn't fair!" So the Most High allows all of us to be in a super-lucid dream/simulation to understand why the root of our character has landed us where we are now. That way, there will be no excuses.

 

[Unsavable]

Unless there is evidence that cannot be doubted where the existence of a god is concerned the default position must be unbelief, imo. Of course an entity could possibly exist in another dimension, but if it does, I don't think it is in touch with humans. Earth is one tiny little planet in a vast universe, it is unlikely that Earth is the only planet hosting intelligent life forms. Maybe some of them have their own version of god too.

I am a sci-fi addict so I can't help but be drawn into the conversation. A dimension is not a place, such as a parallel universe. Those are theatrical devices. A dimension is anything that is measurable. For example the first three dimensions are defined as being length, width, height, and the fourth being time as movement through space cannot occur without movement through time. It is the T axis. Some scientists have theorized based on mathematical models that there are more physical dimensions than we are able to sense. And that may explain how things like faster than light speed travel may be possible. It would also explain how an Angel could seem to suddenly appear out of thin air. But that is still very much in the theoretical space. I love how creative and inventive the human mind is!

But doesn't the very existence of life tip the scale, at least towards a being with the intelligence to engineer life as well as the capacity physically implement it, at least as far as we understand life on this planet?

I believe, and some of our very well educated bible scholars may correct me that the bible doesn't discount life on other planets. In fact the New Jerusalem sounds like a description of a space ship to me. I would be willing to bet that the universe is teaming with life and Heaven is the seat of government.

The notion that the earth is caught in the middle of a failed revolution in heaven makes the story even more intriguing and also explains why humans are so messed up!

The bible narrative is genius. It is way beyond the capacity of the typical desert dweller of some 3,000 years ago. Of course Moses was anything but typical.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Hello all,

Thank you in advance for sharing your thoughts and ideas on this question.

Can a person know that Christ is the true Son of God and died for the sins of mankind and yet not be saved?

satan and demons know this.

 

[Unsavable]

This life is living what you don't remember so you know exactly why you are already where you are now. You can blame institution and dogma for confusing so many, and keeping so many from understanding. Every human is responsible for their own spiritual trajectory, and we cannot go to judgment saying this person said this or that, especially when we were exposed to different facets of His Word to convict us to find the truth.

Those actions, as well as the actions that make someone believe they can get away with something, are some elements of life some of us need to experience so that we know why we are where we are now.

It would be as if the Most High separated the wheat from chaff, and the chaff said, "Why.... This isn't fair!" So the Most High allows all of us to be in a super-lucid dream/simulation to understand why the root of our character has landed us where we are now. That way, there will be no excuses.

But I'm the chaff and I'm saying this isn't fair!

If I'm dead in sin how can I be responsible for my own salvation when I can do no good?

And life is a super lucid dream simulation!? Wow, now that is the thinking of a video game generation!

Can I restart this level? I want to change my character! I want to be an elf with flaming arrows!

 

[Kaon]

But I'm the chaff and I'm saying this isn't fair!

You don't know what you are, which is why you are living the life you live right now. Your disdain for the injustice in life, overall, is just decent common sense. We have been told what rules this world: this ignorant entity is the one that, at best, can only hope for balance (since it comes from chaos).

If I'm dead in sin how can I be responsible for my own salvation when I can do no good?

Because your freedom to respond to stimuli is what your character has always been. In other words, if you murder someone, you were always a murderer. However, if you (truly) repent/turn away, then you are forgiven. We are carnal entities, and the Most High understands the pressure we are under. But, think about Perfection: it is absolute pressure to maintain perfection, especially in the presence of "infinite" temptation (i.e. following your own will instead of the Most High).

And life is a super lucid dream simulation!? Wow, now that is the thinking of a video game generation!

It fits; there are definitely NPCs (non-playable characters) that never do anything outside of a routine of carnality. Then, there are "good guys", "bad guys", and "in betweens". In general, life is like a video game of a certain title: the entire thing has been set, but you learn about the character as you play it - and it goes through trials/levels of the game.

It is a dream because this carnal world is not the origin of souls from the Most High; we are existing in a state that is not our natural state (whether you are to not exist, or you come from the Most High). We have senses that provide us with the information to navigate the world. Once its all over, everyone goes to where they are originally from (the Most High, or nothing).

Can I restart this level? I want to change my character! I want to be an elf with flaming arrows!

Maybe you already are, but right now you must play your levels with a handicap. Some people use cheat codes, but in the end they are only winning in their own mind (because without them, they would never win). They have their reward. The real MVPs are the ones that play with a handicap (sometimes on the hardest levels), no cheat codes and no move lists; those that "beat the game" without giving in to shortcuts is the one that is an MVP. Seeing those levels again (or anything like it) will be easy for these types, because they got the experience to handle it.

 

[Lazarus Long]

Maybe they are being called but, not yet saved?
Respond to the calling.
Listen to good sermons
and read the Bible.

To know god listen to men and read what men have written. Not terribly convincing.

 

[Lazarus Long]

A simple question --

Who keeps the moon in perfect orbit?
It ain't me Lord.
Have mercy on us.
M-Bob

Magical witchcraft.

 

[Lazarus Long]

I understood the Christian God

Hubris much? No one can understand the mind of god. Or did I get that wrong?

 

[Lazarus Long]

Of course Moses was anything but typical.

Yeah he was fictional too.

 

[Lazarus Long]

satan and demons know this.

Have you ever quizzed them about it?

 

[Ken-1122]

Not be saved, if He still live in sinful way. God said Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Are you suggesting it is possible to live a sinless life?

 

[Hans Blaster]

More scientist than ever admit there is an intelligent design behind all of this.

Not this one. Care to offer evidence of your claim?

 

[pleinmont]

I am a sci-fi addict so I can't help but be drawn into the conversation. A dimension is not a place, such as a parallel universe. Those are theatrical devices. A dimension is anything that is measurable. For example the first three dimensions are defined as being length, width, height, and the fourth being time as movement through space cannot occur without movement through time. It is the T axis. Some scientists have theorized based on mathematical models that there are more physical dimensions than we are able to sense. And that may explain how things like faster than light speed travel may be possible. It would also explain how an Angel could seem to suddenly appear out of thin air. But that is still very much in the theoretical space. I love how creative and inventive the human mind is!

But doesn't the very existence of life tip the scale, at least towards a being with the intelligence to engineer life as well as the capacity physically implement it, at least as far as we understand life on this planet?

I believe, and some of our very well educated bible scholars may correct me that the bible doesn't discount life on other planets. In fact the New Jerusalem sounds like a description of a space ship to me. I would be willing to bet that the universe is teaming with life and Heaven is the seat of government.

The notion that the earth is caught in the middle of a failed revolution in heaven makes the story even more intriguing and also explains why humans are so messed up!

The bible narrative is genius. It is way beyond the capacity of the typical desert dweller of some 3,000 years ago. Of course Moses was anything but typical.

The Bible is obviously a human creation, the Biblical god has many of the worst human characteristics.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Have you ever quizzed them about it?

no

 

[Unsavable]

The Bible is obviously a human creation, the Biblical god has many of the worst human characteristics.

Come on, you are smarter than these trolls. They are ignorant and angry and regurgitating nonsense they themselves don't understand. You are not like them. You are not here to spit on people. You are smart and imaginative. You are a seeker not totally unlike myself. There are really two big questions. First, is there a God or did everything in existence create itself? 2. If we can logically rationalize the existence of a higher being or a creator, who is that being and what are that beings traits?

This being a Christian forum many aspects of these two questions are already answered and it is a question of the details. That is the crux of my question: is believing enough to be saved?

But you are proclaiming that neither question is valid. You are asking for proof that you yourself cannot provide in support of your own conclusions. Okay, I am going to read between the lines. The reason that you are here and the reason that you hold others to a higher standard than you hold yourself is because, as I stated above, you are a seeker. You are looking for answers. You are challenging others to change your mind.

Nobody can change your mind but yourself. You have to work the logic. Where did matter come from? Where did energy come from. The big band theory is in trouble. Mathematical models don't align with perceptible quantities of matter and energy. Is it a static universe? A swirling universe? An expending and contracting universe? Is the universe endless? If not, what lies beyond its boundaries? Why are the mechanics of physical space so perfect? Could it possibly be a fluke? When and how did the universe begin? Or has it always existed in it's current state? Are carbon based life forms the only kind of life? What about physical state? Could there be liquid or gaseous life forms?

What if the universe is full of life? What if there is a seat of governance in the universe populated by beings whose in purpose is maintaining the state of that universe? Would that narrative align with the biblical narrative?

Is it possible to see the future? According to Einstein you can alter your rate of speed into the future relative to other beings or objects but traveling to the past is not possible. But what about actually being able to know what the future holds?

I remember reading in the book of revelation a description of an angel with a face like the sun and legs like pillars of fire, wreathed in cloud, speaking with a voice like thunder, and immediately thought of the atomic bomb. I also remember reading about a dragon fly with fire shooting out of its tail and immediately thought of an attack helicopter. Is it possible that John actually witnessed the future?

And what about the New Jerusalem? It is a cube roughly the size of Texas that descends from space onto the earth. Is it possible that this is the description of a space vessel?

 

[pleinmont]

I think my answer is totally valid, until a god appears to humanity in a way that cannot be denied, it is quite reasonable to not believe in its existence.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I think my answer is totally valid, until a god appears to humanity in a way that cannot be denied, it is quite reasonable to not believe in its existence.

You do understand that by then it will be too late to say "oh, now I believe... "

Jesus the Messiah already came and walked this earth, proving the power of God. We have loads of witnesses to the events surrounding His life and death.

We have people coming to Christ, many after seeing Jesus in a dream. We see people coming to Christ for salvation and their lives changed for the better, instead of terrorists or murderers they fight instead for peace and life.

Hebrews 3:15

As has just been said: "Today, if you hear his voice, do not harden your hearts as you did in the rebellion."

All this should speak to you of some truth that your ignoring.

 

[Matthew86]

Hello all,

Thank you in advance for sharing your thoughts and ideas on this question.

Can a person know that Christ is the true Son of God and died for the sins of mankind and yet not be saved?

This is a great question thank you for asking it. I would ask you what is your intent behind this do you have a fear of not being saved or something like that?

I will give two examples to offer help. First the story of Jonah and Ninevah. God sent Jonah to Ninevah a wicked city to repent and turn from their ways or be destroyed. Ninevah takes this seriously and starts to fast and pray from the king down to the people. God then forgives them and saves them from destruction.

King David after he had committed adultery and murder is confronted by the prophet Nathan. He tells him a story that causes David to understand his sin and ask God for forgiveness. Nathan says to David fear not your sins are forgiven you surely will not die, however you will still bare the consequences of your sins, which is why his son late rebelled against him. No magic no mystical stuff no procedures just a knowing you did something wrong and confessing you did sin to God no other people needed and stop sinning and do better in the future that is the formula. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

 

[Matthew86]

I got unsaved when I realised my faith had no validity.

I will admit to you that i was a zealous christian. i was in church multiple times a week even for prayer meeting i was totally immersed and read my bible every single day after i started going to church. I was not raised with any religion completely non religious, so i read the Bible to understand what i was supposed to do and think and all that right. Well within weeks i started having contradictions in what i read versus what i was hearing in church and i was confused. Every time i asked someone a question they would say ohh just pray about it. Well so i did and continued to read and just be good in general i stopped doing anything bad and was losing interest in it too just from focus on reading and understanding like i was a detective kind of.

So as months went on the contradictions stacked up, i started to think i had accidentally got involved with a cult, so i went to another church, but i found the same thing. So i am reading the Bible and going to churches that are telling me that jesus was God and he did away with the law and meanwhile i am at home reading, Numbers 23:19 God is not a man that he can lie, nor the son of man the he should repent. Wait let me re read that it says 100% clear as day GOD IS NOT THE SON OF MAN WHOA!!! The Bible says over and over it will not be changed it is perfect will last forever etc. So my conclusion was that the old testament and the new testament are two seperate books that do not align with each other in any way other that plaguerized passages extracted and misread from the old testament. I can give examples all the day long if you have any interest but im not trying to press it on you, you have free will and whatever you are feeling is ok and understandable.