Saved by all three things...

[Ripheus27]

We often look at this debate over justification as either solved with reference to faith alone, or to faith somehow with works (either the works express the faith, are the actual vehicle of the confession of faith--like deontic sacraments I guess--or cause the faith, or are superadded to it to make the faith complete unto salvation, or whatever). Our Gnostic brothers and sisters chime in with the option of gnosis or knowledge as the means of justifying grace.

What if the truth is that it's all three? Arguably it is true that, Trinity or no, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are still working together on a higher plane than even the highest of the angels. It is through these three entities that we are to attain salvation. Our central focus has to be on Christ, but Christ Himself refers us to the Father as well as the Spirit, while these two refer us back to the Son again, and so on and on (like this celestial dance of mirrors). So we might think that the activation of the condition of the Father's role in salvation, say, is by knowledge, the activation of the Son's is faith, and the activation of the Spirit's is works. Or that all three saving graces apply to all three of these entities, but in different ways (so that faith becomes works when known in the Son, works become faith when known in the Spirit, and knowledge becomes works through faith in the Father, or whatever).

There's isn't much in the way of scriptural support for this theory, I suppose. Or at least, it's much inferred from the good text, not stated outright, and then the inference only goes through if we get to reason at least peripherally from the Gospel of Thomas, say. But as a model of theoretical reconciliation between the three main positions on justification, well, it might be a good enough starting point.

 

[AlephBet]

Mind and Body are only possible because of the involution of Spirit into both. Mind is the engine running the body. Spirit is the light / energy / consciousness. Spirit is non-local to the host it possesses. What is the Lord of Hosts in relation?

 

[timewerx]

the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are still working together on a higher plane than even the highest of the angels.

It's only the Spirit sending out a part of Her to the world.

It's like shedding your own blood, is your blood and you two different entities?

Nope, you are one and the same. Your blood may not be able to build a house by itself but, it is still you.

The Christ is like a drop of Her blood.

 

[1213]

What if the truth is that it's all three?

I think people are saved entirely by words that Jesus told. His words consist of the forgiveness, which can revoke the judgment that would come because of sin.

1. Reason for the judgment is sin.
2. Reason for forgiveness is the words that Jesus told.

However, it is not just about forgiveness. That gives a new beginning, but if people continue in sin, the forgiveness is not useful. Similarly as, if you wash your car and then right after that mess it with mud, washing was not very useful. Same is with sin, if you continue in sin (separation or rejecting God) forgiveness is not useful. That is why Jesus said:

Jesus answered them, "Do you think that these Galileans were worse sinners than all the other Galileans, because they suffered such things? I tell you, no, but, unless you repent, you will all perish in the same way.
Luke 13:2-3

"Neither do I condemn you. Go your way. From now on, sin no more."
John 8:11

The inside of man must be cleaned from all unrighteousness, then all works become also good and then:

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

Righteous person lives, because he is loyal/faithful to God:

Behold, his soul is puffed up. It is not upright in him, but the righteous will live by his faith.
Habakkuk 2:4

And I have understood that righteous is faithful, because he has right understanding and knows what is good and right and wants it. Works are just fruit that tell is the tree good or bad, no one should think that they are the reason for eternal life or salvation.

 

[Saul Hudson]

It's simple. If you want to be saved, you have to be what a saved being is. If you want to live where they live and be as they are, then you must become as one of them. How do you do this? You follow the great prototype, Jesus Christ. You have faith, you keep the commandments, you make your life better and work at becoming a righteous wholesome being. Keeping the commandments prepares you and turns you into what a saved being is. This is why someone who just wants to believe but does nothing, no good works, cannot go where the saved beings are. I can believe all I want that I can be an accountant some day, I can read about it, I can watch others work at it - but if I do not do the work myself, I will never be an accountant.

 

[single eye]

What The Spirit of Truth reveals is inerrant, and what Jesus reveals is enerrant. What they revealed to the saints is enerrant, as is what they produced in scripture. There were no saints named Paul or Moses. The people who selected the books of the bible were not saints. Your confusion will diassapear as soon as you cease mixing scripture with non-scripture.

 

[Ripheus27]

In all reality I'm not confused at all. There is no problem of salvation as the Christian religion usually teaches the thing, so the issue of faith vs. works vs. knowledge is rather moot for me.

 

[single eye]

Rip writes, "I am not confused at all". Denial is not healthy.

 

[Ripheus27]

What I meant is that I'm not confused at all about whether salvation depends on faith, works, knowledge, or some combination of these. I'm not confused, because there is no such thing as this "salvation" we Christians normally think of. There is a conflict between grace and sin, with an eternal outcome, but this plays itself out much differently than in the summary "salvation" of individual believers.

 

[single eye]

Rip says, "I;m not confused, because there is no such thing as this "salvation" we christians normally think of." So, you don't believe in the scriptures eywitness accounts of Jesus and the saints healing the sick and casting out demons and you don't believe in salvation. If that's not confusion, what is it?

 

[Ripheus27]

Belief in the usual talk of salvation reflects what is really a very perverse theory of right and wrong, good and evil. That is, it might be a good theory in many, even most, ways, but there is a mental and emotional sin at its core. Those who do not understand the difference between right and wrong--even though this understanding is available everywhere and forever, requiring no special book of any kind to be revealed to us (and this precious book we obsess over as Christians even says the very same thing!)--become mentally and emotionally devoured by the evil hidden under the ordinary talk of salvation, and end up defying the love of grace and virtue that God exists as. (God IS Love: of what is morally good: this means not only of Himself and of us as having moral value by right of nature, but love for the moral value of good choices, His and ours, too. God is pleased most of all whenever He does or we do what is best, and He is impartial, given to humility, so that He doesn't view His own truly good choices as making Him morally superior to those of His creatures who truly do good. Neither does He count His natural, rightful value as greater than ours just because He wasn't created, knows more than we do, and so on. No. He acknowledges that no one should be a slave to evil but free in Him, that the Law has no eternal authority over us, that He gives His Son the power to judge us but that He also commands the Son to judge no one.)