saved before the foundation?

[BBAS 64]

phil 2:12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
In this verse it says You work out your salvation. Have we worked it out yet? no therefore that hasn't happened yet but from his view since he knows he can choose according to his foreknowledge.
1 Peter 1:2
Who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by his blood: Grace and peace be yours in abundance.
We also read in Matt 25:31-end. When Jesus comes he will separate the sheep from the goats. He is separating basing on whether they fed the poor ETC... Did this happen yet? No therefore the only conclusion would be he knowingly chose us.

Good Day, Orth.

The working out is a present tense verb, Salvation is a noun it would be impossible to "work out" that which you do not have it is the "present possession".

1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the elect who are sojourners of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
1Pe 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace to you and peace be multiplied.
1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy begat us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 who by the power of God are guarded through faith unto a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
Really much better to quote the whole passage, in context, see you really struggle with the noun form of "forknowledge".

He knowingly chose us that is right based on our being his sheep, and he our shepherd.

and before him shall be gathered all the nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as the shepherd separateth the sheep from the goats.

Peace to u,

Bill

 

[orthedoxy]

You only could workout something that is not secured or not complete.
If the sheep and the goats are not seperated they don't have eternal life before the secound coming.
Rom2:5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:[a] 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
You also see the judgment is happening after our actions and not before.

 

[BBAS 64]

You only could workout something that is not secured or not complete.
If the sheep and the goats are not seperated they don't have eternal life before the secound coming.
Rom2:5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:[a] 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
You also see the judgment is happening after our actions and not before.

Good day, Orthedoxy

I guess the possive pro-noun "your-own" is some thing you missed.

Surely you beg the the question what is eternal life??

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ.

The shepherd seperates the sheep from the goats.
In Him,

Bill

 

[orthedoxy]

I didn't understand your answer.
Rom 2 says will render(future tense) eternal life.
Also Matt 25:34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
would you say this is salvation? they didn't enter the kingdome untill the secound coming.

 

[heymikey80]

You only could workout something that is not secured or not complete.

Clearly not -- things can be secured before then, they can even be received before then -- they're just not due, they haven't appeared as different from the alternatice. I work out my taxes -- it doesn't mean I don't have taxes 'til they're completed. In fact I have to pay them even if I haven't worked them out, there're penalties added if I don't pay 'em. I owe them, regardless of whether I've worked them out.

If the sheep and the goats are not seperated they don't have eternal life before the secound coming.

ROFL! You're kidding, now. You mean everyone at church is a Christian, because hey, they haven't been separated!

Remember the parable of the wheat & tares? You're saying the tares are wheat until the farmer separates them.

Like the umpire, "It's not a ball or a strike 'til I call it"? No, it's a ball or a strike, he's judging it, he's not making it so.

Rom2:5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:[a] 7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
You also see the judgment is happening after our actions and not before.

A judgement from the Law will be issued based on our actions, certainly. But as Paul himself follows-up, no one is justified through this path: "Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin ... For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight" Rom 3:9,20 (in between these verses, btw, are the Law's explicit judgements).

would you say this is salvation? they didn't enter the kingdome untill the secound coming.

I'd say they're both salvation. They're both parts of the process of salvation God is accomplishing in the lives of people. Of course salvation is only accomplished when these actions actually accomplish it, too. I can drive just about anywhere -- but my driving only contributes to my health when I drive to the doctor's, or drive to healthful eating, etc. Each action, when it's intended and also done by God for salvation -- then it's part of the process of salvation.

 

[heymikey80]

If it says you were saved before the foundation of the world,then it doesn't make sense or it contradict when it says one need to believe and be saved.

No, it doesn't. Note the following example:

"You need to gas up before you can drive from Charlotte to Atlanta."
"Your trip is assured by my owning the car and driving there with you."
​

OK, you need the gas to drive. But that doesn't mean your trip isn't assured solely by the gas. There are other things at work to ensure you make the trip -- not least of which is your father's car, and his intent to go there, too.

It doesn't mean you can finish the trip without gas. You can't finish the trip without believing. But that doesn't even mean you're the one scrounging for the gas for the trip. It simply says gas is needed.

Similarly, your Heavenly Father's intent and actions, and even His being with you to make the trip, assure your salvation.

It doesn't mean you can finish the trip of salvation without faith. You can't finish the trip without believing. But that doesn't even mean you're the one scrounging for faith for the trip. It simply says faith is needed.

I know the bible speaks of salvation in the past present and future but from Calvinist view it doesn't make sense. Can anyone clearify?

It has to do with the definition of salvation. Is salvation an event? To Calvinists, it's not. It's a process; it's a system; it's a narrative; it's a life; it's even an intent.

If it says you were saved how can you say you will be saved unless God saved according to his foreknowledge?

Because entry into the process of salvation has occurred in times long past.

The bible says believe and you will be saved and not you will be aware of your salvation.
Therefore we can't have been saved before we believed.
You can say you were elected to be saved but you were not saved.

Y'see, that presumes a particular scheme for "salvation". The Bible says those who believe are saved(Rom 10:10); the Bible also says those who believe have been saved (Ep 2:5, Rom 8:24); the Bible also says those who believe will be saved (Rom 10:13).

Salvation is not this refined, punctual event. It's far broader than that. To shoehorn it into a specific event contradicts Scripture.

So the Calvinist naturally says we were saved, we are saved, and we shall be saved. Because so also says the Bible.