Save a homosexual's soul!

[Zaac]

I never said I plan to save anyone. Just to help them find God. I don't need to save them. But I can't just leave them either.

You don't get to help anybody find God. Again, He draws men unto Himself. There is NOTHING we can do to save ourselves or anyone else.

If someone is saved, it is FULLY the work of Christ. Don't even attempt to take credit for it.

God isn't lost. They don't need help finding what's always been right there in front of them. This is why He draws men unto Himself. He has to work un the nonbelieving heart before it can see that He's right there where no one needs to help them find Him.

You'll wear yourself out trying to shoulder the work of Christ. You can't take on the sins of the world.

He says for us to GO and preach the Gospel, the same Gospel that is Truth that is Jesus Christ that makes men free.

Do this and let God be God.

 

[Zaac]

This is EASILY the biggest cop-out for what I just said.

You can call it whatever you like. It is what it is.

If gays and lesbians were trying to marry each other back in Biblical times, then those same sex marriage issues could have been addressed very easily and condemned. Case and point, they weren't part of the historical culture of the time, nor were they brought up.

Well, I don't know about your god, but mine sits outside of time and delivered truth that transcends all time. He said what He intended to say and perfectly addressed what He intended to address. And you thinking He could have easily dealt with the same-sex marriage issue by directly addressing doesn't change the fact that He addressed it the way that HE intended to.

He is STILL right and you are wrong. Marriage is a union of man and woman.

 

[TheFathersDaughter]

You don't get to help anybody find God. Again, He draws men unto Himself. There is NOTHING we can do to save ourselves or anyone else.

If someone is saved, it is FULLY the work of Christ. Don't even attempt to take credit for it.

God isn't lost. They don't need help finding what's always been right there in front of them. This is why He draws men unto Himself. He has to work un the nonbelieving heart before it can see that He's right there where no one needs to help them find Him.

You'll wear yourself out trying to shoulder the work of Christ. You can't take on the sins of the world.

He says for us to GO and preach the Gospel, the same Gospel that is Truth that is Jesus Christ that makes men free.

Do this and let God be God.

God may draw Himself to man, but then why do so many people deny Him.

 

[Zaac]

God may draw Himself to man, but then why do so many people deny Him.

For the same reason that you would much rather someone CHOOSE to love you than you MAKING them love you.

The flesh is at enmity with Christ. Whatever Christ wants, the flesh wants the opposite.

He wants to save them. The flesh wants to destroy them.

And because people would much rather indulge in that which is sensual and self-serving, they reject the only One who can bring them the joy and completion that they are trying to obtain the WRONG way through the flesh.

It's like a drug addict. The flesh is addicted to sin. The more it sins, the more it wants to sin again. The only thing capable of breaking that cycle is the One who died to forgive us of that sin: His name is JESUS.

 

[tulc]

That answer came out exactly as I intended. I've said it before. I am more than capable of saying EXACTLY what I intend to say.

Oh, ok. Then you should answer the question. Because what ever question you thought I was asking? You never answered what I did ask.
tulc(waiting for more coffee)

 

[D.W.Washburn]

He sure did. You may not accept it. But He starts in Genesis giving a definition of man/woman marriage and the theme continues throughout the OT and the NT.

With all due respect, you are mistaken. There is no definition of marriage in the Bible as "one man/one woman." This is assumed as a norm, as it is today, but it is neither a definition nor a command.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

But homosexual sex is condemned in the bible.
(You ought to know the verses by now.)
Just as incest, right? (Two adults, man and woman, nobody defending that though, why?) Christ said Man shall leave his father and be joined with his wife, if it were allowed, don't you think it would've been revealed? Great Posts Zaac.
(I go to a disciples church, had to say it because I never see that denomination talked about. :o)

 

[Ohioprof]

You don't get to help anybody find God. Again, He draws men unto Himself. There is NOTHING we can do to save ourselves or anyone else.

If someone is saved, it is FULLY the work of Christ. Don't even attempt to take credit for it.

God isn't lost. They don't need help finding what's always been right there in front of them. This is why He draws men unto Himself. He has to work un the nonbelieving heart before it can see that He's right there where no one needs to help them find Him.

You'll wear yourself out trying to shoulder the work of Christ. You can't take on the sins of the world.

He says for us to GO and preach the Gospel, the same Gospel that is Truth that is Jesus Christ that makes men free.

Do this and let God be God.

So you are a Calvinist?

 

[Ohioprof]

You can call it whatever you like. It is what it is.



Well, I don't know about your god, but mine sits outside of time and delivered truth that transcends all time. He said what He intended to say and perfectly addressed what He intended to address. And you thinking He could have easily dealt with the same-sex marriage issue by directly addressing doesn't change the fact that He addressed it the way that HE intended to.

He is STILL right and you are wrong. Marriage is a union of man and woman.

Again, that is all just your beliefs. Your interpretation of the Bible, seen through your personal lens. It's NOT the opinion of God. It's the opinion of Zaac. That other people may share your opinion does not make it the opinion of God.

 

[Ohioprof]

But homosexual sex is condemned in the bible.
(You ought to know the verses by now.)
Just as incest, right? (Two adults, man and woman, nobody defending that though, why?) Christ said Man shall leave his father and be joined with his wife, if it were allowed, don't you think it would've been revealed? Great Posts Zaac.
(I go to a disciples church, had to say it because I never see that denomination talked about. :o)

The verses are actually ambiguous and sparse. There are more verses in the Bible that condone slavery than there are verses that appear to condemn same-sex sexual expression. The denunciation of divorce is more clear than are the verses that some claim to be about same-sex sex.

I wrote something about the Disciples in an earlier post today.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

The verses are actually ambiguous and sparse. There are more verses in the Bible that condone slavery than there are verses that appear to condemn same-sex sexual expression. The denunciation of divorce is more clear than are the verses that some claim to be about same-sex sex.

I wrote something about the Disciples in an earlier post today.

I know ya did, it's why I made the comment.
I still would think an issue like would've been revealed if it were lawful. But you don't believe the bible anyway, so it wouldn't matter to you if it did allow it.

 

[D.W.Washburn]

But homosexual sex is condemned in the bible.
(You ought to know the verses by now.)
Just as incest, right? (Two adults, man and woman, nobody defending that though, why?) Christ said Man shall leave his father and be joined with his wife, if it were allowed, don't you think it would've been revealed?

Arguments from silence are not very useful.

Neither "God said nothing about it, so it must be allowed" nor "If God wanted to allow it, God would've said so" is persuasive.

 

[Armistead]

This is EASILY the biggest cop-out for what I just said. If gays and lesbians were trying to marry each other back in Biblical times, then those same sex marriage issues could have been addressed very easily and condemned. Case and point, they weren't part of the historical culture of the time, nor were they brought up.

I'm undecided as of yet. I think there are many issues involved. I think homosexuality has changed over the last few decades. Almost all studies done into the 70's
showed most homosexual behavior was related to sexual abuse as a child; overbearing parent of the same sex; or severe emotional issues. The gay movement got so big and fought against those studies and they were basically put aside.

Now that is such a big part of our society, I think many
partake in it for pleasure. Where in the past, we had a very small bi population, that is now more common than gay in itself.

My only concern is for those that are gay that have severe early emotional issues that may have pushed them into the gay life. Often when they are dealt with,
gays go straight.

I look at Rosie. Now we hear about all her troubles as a child, breaking her bones on purpose, ect...I think anyone gay should look for any underlying factors, instead of blaming it all on genetics...which are still in theory.

For those with no underlying factors that do it just
for pleasure....not going there.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Then you're already in a better place than most fundamentalists, who seem to think their interpretation is equivalent to what the Bible says. Not only that, but in calling the Bible the Word of God, they leave themselves open to idolising the words of the Bible themselves.

All our interpretations are fallible, as is the Bible itself, which was written by human beings not a divine being. Inspired they may have been, perfect they were not. In fact, they were just like us.

I think you have your heart in the right place; and I don't think you're essentially homophobic. Some of the people who come here definitely. I think your heart is telling you that homosexuality is not a sin; and I suspect (but of course I can't prove) that this is the Holy Spirit speaking to you.

God bless in your search.

No, its just that I don't have any type of inner hatred towards homosexuals. They aren't any different than the rest of us sinners, but I do believe that what they are trying to justify is indeed sinful.

I also said I don't think people consciously choose their likes and dislikes, and sexual preferences. Does that mean people are born gay? I don't think so, I was born a boy, and can't recall any type of sexual orientation at a very young age. So from my personal experience I cannot say whether people are born gay or not, but to say that they are is another misleading statement.

 

[davedjy]

I'm undecided as of yet. I think there are many issues involved. I think homosexuality has changed over the last few decades. Almost all studies done into the 70's
showed most homosexual behavior was related to sexual abuse as a child; overbearing parent of the same sex; or severe emotional issues. The gay movement got so big and fought against those studies and they were basically put aside.

Those studies might account for some people, but they definitely are not an accurate representation of all gays and lesbians. None of those apply to me, and I'm gay.

My only concern is for those that are gay that have severe early emotional issues that may have pushed them into the gay life. Often when they are dealt with,
gays go straight.

Again, I believe this represents a small minority of the population of gays and lesbians. Every mental health foundation in America, is against any type of reparative therapy, and say that you cannot change your sexual orientation. The abuse cases must've been straight to start.

I look at Rosie. Now we hear about all her troubles as a child, breaking her bones on purpose, ect...I think anyone gay should look for any underlying factors, instead of blaming it all on genetics...which are still in theory.

I believe it to be mostly genetic, but I don't ever use that as a debate proof, as even the best Scientists in the world haven't proved it yet. Most will just say it is a combination of factors INCLUDING genetic. They don't know, but it is what it is, and it isn't curable.

For those with no underlying factors that do it just
for pleasure....not going there.

This quote is very vague, I don't get what you are saying here. Are you condemning promiscuous people or people that were not abused?

 

[D.W.Washburn]

I was born a boy, and can't recall any type of sexual orientation at a very young age.

Oh!

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

Oh!

I meant it as this was about the height of what I knew of sexuality as a child.

 

[D.W.Washburn]

I meant that as that was about the height of what I knew as sexuality as a child.

That you weren't aware of any variation from the apparent norm?

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

That you weren't aware of any variation from the apparent norm?

as a small child? I didn't even know what the 'norm' was. I knew vaguely of physical differences between boys and girls.

 

[D.W.Washburn]

as a small child? I didn't even know what the 'norm' was. I knew vaguely of physical differences between boys and girls.

At that age, the differences were slight. Though I expect that those outside the "norm" may have been aware of it.

Good night, Jet. God bless you and BabyGurl.